Another +ve review of PAA:
http://www.glamsham.com/music/review...iew-110909.asp
thanks,
Krishnan
Another +ve review of PAA:
http://www.glamsham.com/music/review...iew-110909.asp
thanks,
Krishnan
Sify says:
"Ilayaraja humiliates ONV Kurup!"
http://sify.com/movies/fullstory.php?id=14920950
thanks,
Krishnan
No he is rather expressing that although the lyrics are significant they convey a more upbeat manner of a king getting his land back while thalaivar felt that it should be expressing sadness of a king leaving his land. Otherwise no disappointment seen in the speech neither is there any insulting. In fact it looked like thalaivar was trying to say how he managed to create a tune around the lyrics to make it sound like a king feeling sad yet upbeat at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by krish244
Let someone who has not heard the song recite the lyrics. Ask him what he feels about it. I wouldn't be surprised if he says that it feels like a poem in which people are marching.(kind of 'manidhaa manidhaa ini un')
"adhiushas" stands tall mainly due to ONV's outstanding lyrics which even outshines Raja's pedestrian tune . Looks like Raja is clearly not comfortable in setting tunes to pre written lyrics which is a good challenge for music composers. May be he could still learn a lesson or two from MSV in this regard . No wonder he is still stuck with "salippu" nursery rhymes like sandhams .
sample these :
"unnai patri sonnaal
udhai kidaikkum
ennai patri sonnaal
veNNai kidaikkum
(or)
un vaazhve oru kadhai aagalaam
un kadhaiye oru vaazhvu aagalaam
un vaazhve oru kadhai aagaamalum polam
un kadhaiye oru vaazhva aagaamalum polam
ippidi kooda lyrics ezhudhallam
raasaappu paatille enna venaalum varalaam
Till now MFM seemed to offer some "soLa pori" to starved Raja fans. Ippo adhulayum maNNaa?
First, thanks to Flifo for uploading the speech. Second, can we get back to the stone age please so that we can take out a club and hit these press fellows without feeling guilty!!!
I watched the video of the speech and I am thrilled. For it is not always that an artists like Raja talks about his aesthetics. We have evidence once in a while about what he thinks and how he thinks and any occasion which gives us a glimpse of the way his mind works is always welcome.
Coming to the speech itself, the whole tone, which the papers / web sites can never convey or don't want to convey, is an ordinary one. He was relating an incident in an ordinary fashion. His sense of what the words should convey at that point in time of the story is clearly stated. He also clearly understands what ONV is trying to convey. He says that he feels the situation needs to convey a bit of sadness because the king has lost his land. ONV wants to convey that an uprising is in the offing. It is a simple matter of different perceptions of two different artists. This is something welcome because it allows us to debate cinema as well.
One important thing we need to note here is that Raja is fully talking in the context of the movie and why he felt the lyrics did not suit the situation as he understood it. Raja is not really talking about whether he was better or ONV was better but only about whether the song suited the situation or not. What more can you expect from an artist who understands cinema like no one else? Check out what he says about him suggesting silence during Mamooty's entry, the director wanting music and finally the silence prevailing.
Raja says clearly that he fought with Hariharan saying that ONV has composed so many songs for his tunes and why was it not happening now? Raja infact sings the tune as a normal meter and you can clearly realize how much Raja has deliberately changed it not to show the meter.
I may be selfish but I am happy to see some thinking of Raja being revealed. I think the controversy is totally unnecessary. There were two artists who had different ideas on what the scene needed and artistic differences are something which happen all the while. Let us leave it at that.
thumburu,
With due respects to you, I think you sometimes occupy a very high pedestal and pass comments as if they are the absolute final words about anything. We can disagree on whether the tune was good or the lyrics were better but to call 'adiushas' as a pedestrian tune is sheer arrogance. (I personally do not think the lyrics of 'adiushas' are outstanding to the extent that the tune becomes pedestrian. I don't want to get into a lyrics vs tune debate here since I have equal respect for ONV and Raja.)
In his speech Raja clearly explains how he had to change the meter of the song to get the emotion he wanted. I would advice you to please watch the video of Raja's speech to have a clearer understanding of what he wanted to convey.
My humble request again. Please do not get someone like MSV into the discussion. The last discussion I want is Raja vs MSV type of discussion. Let us leave that great man alone. We have enough other fights to participate in :)
I don't think anyone has any arguments about the lyrics you quoted. Everyone, including me, have bashed this up enough times.
:clap: Suresh65, she is just one of those fans who have too high expectations for thalaivar where they forget the situation the song is composed for and the actual emotion that is being conveyed. I think thalaivar has not only scored for lyrics but managed to get both emotions on track, a "rising to the war" theme and the sadness of losing one's homeland. Both expressed in interludes and orchestration :notworthy:
Back to paa.. another positive and a balanced review
http://www.mouthshut.com/review/Paa_Album-179726-1.html
Finally – With Ilayaraja, melody can be taken for granted. The cynics and ‘Pritam’ loving junta wont like this album even a wee bit, but then, if Pritam (and the likes) can survive, Ilaraja has to be given a million acre Villa to live and rule the world of music. The tunes are simple with a bit of retro-feel. I rate this 4 out of 5 because this one is an OST and not a music album, and with a story-line as peculiar as of ‘Paa’, I am sure the songs will be an integral part of the movie and wont act as a disconnect (how else can you explain that the average length of the songs is not even 3 minutes!)
It is quite as to how almost all the web based reviews want to try and anticipate what the people want and accordingly review the music ;) Very funny. If you are a critic, you must either let people know whether you liked it or not, or you can point out some nuances about the song and tell why it is good or not good. Instead, what we get is, 'The young crowd will like it'. 'the so and so crowd may not like it' and so and so forth. It is almost like everyone wants a 'fast food' review!! I am just not talking about 'Paa' review but most reviews in general.
Another +ve review and an interesting observation
http://worldmusic.suite101.com/artic...sic_review_paa
Swanand Kirkire’s lyrics and Ilayaraja’s music complement each other beautifully in the soundtrack of the new Bollywood movie Paa. It does strike the listener as slightly odd that a movie with a male centric story should have a soundtrack dominated with female voices, but that is beside the point.
I guess sometimes you need to bow to the market dynamics and which is what these reviewers are trying to do. I am happy that most of the reviewers are acknowledging the beauty of these songs rather than just pushing them as being south indian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
Lot of discussions here.Sometimes, not knowing a language helps :)
I dont think Aadhiushassu is a pedestrian tune.Its not a great tune either(the pallavi part),but it captures a certain mood in the pallavi that i think gelled well with the picturisation, even though i didnt understand the language. and the beauty of the song evolves in the charanams. And overall, its a beautiful composition.If we listen to only pallavi,it might be that appealing.And the song is more about the whole aura it carries.The brass section,the percussions etc.
Regarding his comments,IR has proved lot of times,that he cannot articulate his thoughts exactly sometimes.May be this is one of them.I dont see what would IR gain by degrading a lyricist, as the media claim.Its nonsense.Just that he had a point of view and he probably couldnt put it across in a right way.. Thats my guess, not even an interpretation.
Strange are the ways of Genuises.
May be you should stop Listening to Raaja's Music altogether till you come out of the 'bourgeois' (=Mettukudi) mindset you have, ...or if possible stop posting your opinions with narrow mindset.Quote:
Originally Posted by thumburu
We will not be at loss if the likes of you don't post here.
Thumburu, when you get time, please listen to the following pre-written lyrics albums:
1. Bharathi
2. Parts of Ramana Maalai
Above all
3. Thiruvasagam
:-)
RS,
I wouldn't go to that extent. I don't mind people having a fixed mindset. I think everyone has a right to opinion. My major crib are these hand waving dismissals. If you want to clearly state why you felt a tune was not good and why you felt the lyrics were good, that is acceptable. We may disagree. But if it is just a hand waving opinion, there will not be much of constructive debate which happens. For example, raagas is analyzing the song and saying the pallavi may not be very impactful but the charanams are great and the song is a whole unit along with the orchestration. That is an acceptable argument. You can argue whether the pallavi is great or not but atleast there is certain logic in the argument.
We have all been arguing with the basic premise that there are no holy cows. I fully agree to it but before dismissing an artists work we better give our reasons clearly.
thumburu,
Please watch the video of exactly what IR said. Newspapers have twisted the whole thing as much they could. IR's concerns were valid. Especially, when he stated that when PR leaves the land, no lines in the lyrics to represent the fact. Do you have an argument against this??
In all this controversy, I feel the MT-HH combo will now not try to push the NA committee for music NA :-(
சரி, போனால் போகட்டும் போடா :-)
I agree with Fliflo about the Media twisting the whole speech in order to create some controversy. When i listened to it, i felt that IR is merely stating that his basic understanding of the situation and the feel the song was supposed to provide, differed from the lyricist. While ONV went for a more upbeat revolutionary kind of feel, IR felt that the pain of the king forced to move out of his land and hide also needed to be brought out. So he tried to put his idea as well into the feel of the song and in the end i think he acheived both the objectives. The basic tune conveys a hint of sadness while the backing percussion and rythms provide the the more upbeat war like feel as well. What do you guys think? I think its basically the composer and lyricist having a totally different point of view of the situation which was explained for the song. Maybe if they had been face to face they could have come to an understanding on the feel of the song? It must have been a challenging task explaining this kind of situation for a song and i think IR is also pointing out the difficulties that are encountered while composing.
rprasad,
What you say is exactly right and that is what seems to have happened.
Guys,
just came home after watching PR ( Mal ) in Woodlands Chennai - ( not the best place to watch this kind of movie, but could not get tix in Satyam and Mayajaal being too far ). Had < 50 people in the hall so i guess the movie is probably doing it's last week or 2..
Highlights.. Photography, Locations, second half BGM, Adhi Usha/Kunnathe visuals, Sarath/Tribal chief/Padmapriya's performances.
A bit let down with the first half BGM as it sounded too jarring - in my opinion, Resul/IR should have played it down a bit.. Ambum/Kombum is played in the background only for 10-15 seconds or so..
Overall a good movie ..
Cheers
MSK
MSK,
I too felt the sounds of battle overpowered the BGM. I did not find the BGM to be jarring, though.
Gokul.
Paa-soundtrack is in top 5 as per the sellers
http://www.tseries.com/Music.aspx
"adhiushas" stands tall mainly due to ONV's outstanding lyrics which even outshines Raja's pedestrian tune "
Pedestrian tune... ?
ஒரு வேளை ராஜா நடந்துகிட்டே போட்ட பாட்டுன்னு சொல்றாங்களோ? ஒண்ணும் புரியலை.
:-)
Gokul
"Calling AdhiUsha tune/Orchestration to be pedestrian " Ithellam koncham too much guys..
Gokul, it could be due to the sound system volume being too high as well.. Yeah.. the battle noise for overpowering the BGM and also at places in the first half, there was BGM which masked dialogues which is not typical of IR.. i did not find this in the second half of the movie..
Forgot to tell you.. I have moved to Chennai recently - workplace is right behind Prasad Studios :-)
Cheers
MSK
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by writeface
Maybe the tune is meant only for pedestrians, not to those who listen to music in their cars or at their homes ;)
MSK, welcome back...Blr vandhA sollungO meet-alAm !Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_sandiego
"Forgot to tell you.. I have moved to Chennai recently - workplace is right behind Prasad Studios "
MSK,
Really! that is a surprise. Thought you were still at San Diego.
I will be in Bangalore/Chennai next summer. Will hook-up.
prasad studios-lla enna nadakkuththunnu adikkadi etti paarththu engaLukku thagaval kodunga:-)
Gokul.
Gokul/Shankar,
Just moved to Chennai a few weeks back though i was travelling to Chennai from SD a lot the last few years.
i do not have your latest email - my yahoo is still the same - msk_rcom - send me a email please and i will send you contact info - Lets meet when u guys are in Chennai next time.
Shankar, I will be travelling to B'lore as early as next week or so.. i will connect once u send me the contact #'s.
Thanks
MSK
Suresh, What pedestal do u expect a battered, bruised long time loyal fan to be in, when she has been time and again let down by her favourite composer whom she still doggedly believes while the whole world had moved on. Hulkister, whatever expectation I had,went 'kaput' post "kadhalukku mariyadhai" itself and now I still continue to get surprised and excited about every tiny good interlude bit or nice phrase emanating from him.But Iam not interested in being content with just 2 options - either the high profile recycles of "cheeni kum"/"Paa" or the trash worthy D-graded left overs like Valmikis/Jaganmohinis/Azhagarmalais. That is why Pazhassi is very dear to me and many here who contributed to almost 70% of the 100 pages thread with Pazhassi puranamQuote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
Though "kunnathe" was my initial ,instant pick, after reading Shankar's wonderful write up at dhool.com regarding the lyrical beauty that aptly portrays the anguish of invasion, I changed my stance and now "adhiushas" is perched at the top of my PR playlist. Note that I didn't start the hair-splitting exercise. I said only the tune is ordinary and not the song . This song with its sterling lyrics, orchestration, backdrop, ok tune will be cherished for long . Not only that, the prewritten lyrics in "adhiushas" has provoked IR to come up with a very unique song where the "dejavu" black sheep is not lurking anywhere which itself is a no mean feat. Well, I cannot say the same for the syruppy "odathannil" with its cliched, stereotyped sandhams that remind you of so many of his earlier numbers.That is the benefit derived out of classy pre-written lyrics . Iam aware that a music director has to budge out of his comfort zone to come up with a captivating song for prewritten lyrics. So my quoting MSV here is not out of context for he has excelled in such cases like "therottam ananda shenbaga poovattam" from "noolveli" as one such an example . Raja himself did it in Bharathy. It is funny to see him condoning abysmally crude "pacha menis", "kooda varuviyaa" etc while nitpicking on "adhiushas"
Avanga ammam samigal, jalra poduravangala irukkum, Ivaru konjam maruthu pesi irupparu :yessir:Quote:
It is funny to see him condoning abysymally crude "pacha menis", "kooda varuviyaa" etc while nitpicking on "adhiushas"
Well, you can only criticise when there is scope for excellence. Azzhagar Malai, Valmikikku ellAm adhu pOdhumnu nenaichirukkalAm. Again, Remember that he doesnt attend audio functions always - andha functionlAM attend panNi irundhA enna sollli iruppArO yaaru kandA?
Another PR review:
http://www.tamilcinema.com/CINENEWS/...azhasiRaja.asp
படத்தின் முதல் ஹீரோ நமது இசைஞானி இளையராஜாதான். பின்னணி இசையில் இவர்தான் முன்னணி ராஜா என்பதை எல்லா காட்சிகளுமே உணர்த்துகின்றன. 'ஆதிமுதல் காலம் பூத்ததிங்கே' என்ற பாடல் சுகமோ சுகம். அதையே கீ போர்டிலும், வயலினிலும் இசைத்து பின்னணிக்கு பயன்படுத்தியிருப்பது ராஜ வசியம்!
I dont know what is Pacha menis, but "Kooda Varuviyaa" is crude to you???????? I am surprised!!! It is one of the most brilliant compositions of this year.I would put that song alone, higher than some of the whole albums like "Azhagar Malai". Kooda Variviyaa is atmospheric. It has an ambience. It makes you crave for a long walk in the woods, during the dawn time when there is mist. Oh, I have so many images and craving to picturise that song. And for you its crude??I dont know what to say! :-|Quote:
Originally Posted by thumburu
In my opinion, of all the Raja songs that released in 2009, Mudi Mudi / Udi Udi has the greatest 'repeat' value. Just couldnt get enough of it.
This Thumburu, whoever it is.....
is totally pathetic....all I can imagine is that he or she is a ARR fan very much disguised as IR old timer and looking for cheap thrills here...
Absolutely braindead specimen! No point in taking it seriously and wasting space responding or even acknowledging....in my opinion...
If Adhiuhya is a pedestrian tune then I am keen to know how he describes all the latest ARR tunes....
Raagas,Quote:
Originally Posted by raagas
She means the lyrics, not the songs themselves
thumburu,
Let us agree to disagree. I don't think anyone would have come up with better tune for those lyrics. Secondly, let us agree to disagree about the lyrics as well. To me, the lyrics are very generic. They do contain a couple of good lines but don't tell the story (something which Kannadasan probably would have done effortlessly.) Anyway, no point splitting hairs here. Personally I hold that the lyrics per say did not have the emotion of pathos, which Raja brought out in the tune. For example, the way he has tuned 'aanathera mamalathan mouna mudachu' with a bit of pathos running through it is exemplary. For the lyrics provided and the meter provided, Raja has done superb work with his tune. Ofcourse orchestration brilliance is present for everyone to see.
Secondly, you quote 'odathandil' and conveniently leave out 'kunnathe'. Now both were tuned first and lyrics written later. So how come 'kunnathe' is inferior to any song tuned for lyrics?
I still maintain a poet cannot get the twist and turns that a music composer can and will probably write in the sandam that suits him / her and that can become monotonous to a music director. There are so many old songs who sandhamans reminds one of other songs of the same music director, probably because the poet has used the same meter. It applies to almost every of the great music directors who tuned for pre-written lyrics.
Again, from Raja's speech, what I infer is that he was very involved with this story and hence probably wanted the lyrics to convey the sense of despondency that the king feels and since he did not see them in the lyrics, he told how he got the despondency through his tune. A simple explanation and not nitpicking.
All I can say is that scoring for Pazhassi Raja would have been beyond the scope of any current MD. The songs and BGM are proof of it.
raagas,
As Bala pointed out, thumburu is referring to the lyrics. I personally don't know why she included 'koodavaruviya' as crude. The lyrics of 'kooda varuviya' may not be top class but it definitely doesn't fall in the crude category. To me the lyrics are quite nice.
ezy,
thumburu has a point of view and it is clear she hold the 80s Raja dear. It is an obsession of many. Don't let ARR be your obsession. You can check out the 'Last Raja song listened to' thread to see what thumburu posts. Dragging ARR when there is no provocation is not going to help anybody.