Interludes in Lip synced songs Vs montage songs

It somehow struck me yesterday as I was listening to songs of Raja - Does a 'typical' situation where someone is singing on screen - limit the duration and depth of the interludes?
Most delightful interludes In my sampling were from the songs which were 'non-lip sync' - the lip synced ones barring an exceptional 'Kadhal oviyam songs' were treated more functionally - meaning there were restrictions on the sounds in the ambience - meaning lesser scope for an expansive interlude bit. Just random thoughts, let us see if we come up with an effective compilation of the two.

I think it's difficult to generalize in this manner.

Since you've mentioned kAdhal Oviyum, my mind automatically recalled sindhu bhairavi (where some songs had to be lip-sync'ed).

'pAdaRiyEn-padippaRiyEn' had a brief interlude, appropriate for the stage, seemingly supporting your theory. Also, 'poomAlai vAngi vandhAn' has lengthy interludes as there's story being told there without lip sync, again supporting your theory.

'nAnoru sindhu', however, breaks this theory into pieces - both lip sync and lengthy, sweet interludes.

Bottomline - the length (& quality) of the interlude is situation demanded and director's story telling methods play the key role here. lip-sync or otherwise is unrelated to interludes, IMO.

(Another classic case is 'poongAtRu thirumbumA' of mudhal mariyAdhai', lip-sync plus lengthy / good quality interludes)

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Originally Posted by app_engine

I think it's difficult to generalize in this manner.

Since you've mentioned kAdhal Oviyum, my mind automatically recalled sindhu bhairavi (where some songs had to be lip-sync'ed).

'pAdaRiyEn-padippaRiyEn' had a brief interlude, appropriate for the stage, seemingly supporting your theory. Also, 'poomAlai vAngi vandhAn' has lengthy interludes as there's story being told there without lip sync, again supporting your theory.

'nAnoru sindhu', however, breaks this theory into pieces - both lip sync and lengthy, sweet interludes.

Bottomline - the length (& quality) of the interlude is situation demanded and director's story telling methods play the key role here. lip-sync or otherwise is unrelated to interludes, IMO.

(Another classic case is 'poongAtRu thirumbumA' of mudhal mariyAdhai', lip-sync plus lengthy / good quality interludes)

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Good point about 'poomaalai vaangi vandhaan' - adhil varum fusion is possible only in a 'situational' montage song - though 'Naanoru sindhu' has detailed interludes, the possibility to do detailed IR trademark fusion seems more only in 'poomalai' kinda song.
Agree to the fact about the director's inputs. - However director's inputs stop with the genre of the song and the mood - I guess interlude is wholly Raaja's territory.

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

I guess interlude is wholly Raaja's territory.

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Musically, yes. However, the "length & feel" have a lot to do with the situation, IMO, as IR involves himself in such aspects so completely.

One more classic case of lip-sync song with lengthy interludes (the second one even funny) is the 'chinnanjiru vayadhil enakkOr siththiram thONudhadee' of meeNdum kOkilA. As it's a peN pArkkum scene (beautiful Sridevi and handsome Kamal there), there had to be lip sync. OTOH, GNR-IR combo possibly decided to include other details during the interludes and they had such a nice effect.

A conversational kind of song with lip sync- 'paRandhAlum, vidamAttEn' of guru had fantastic prelude and interludes which were way ahead of the time. Kamal-Sridevi again, in two different aircrafts, singing over "wireless" transmission :-)

(side point - all this talk about IR & synth today, ada pOngappA, this one was decades back with synthO synthu)

I have never analyzed this way for the simple reason that I have not seen most of the songs :) But it is a nice question nevertheless. In another related thread, Plum had written about how Raja cares for narrative integrity and that he wonders even though he has boxed himself here.

So, logically we can feel that when there is no lip sync, he has more scope for the interludes. But if you observe our movie many a times the lack of lip sync happens either during generic romantic songs, a la Balu Mahendra songs, where the lovers walk on beach, smile and each other, look at the sunset and do lot of such stuff which lovers are allowed to do on the screen. The other type which doesn't require lip sync are either the 'soga' philosophical type songs or the revolutionary type songs. This means in non lip synced songs Raja has only limited situations to score interludes for.

Not that non lip synced situations are very greatly different in our movies. It is only that if the director is talented enough to tell a part of the story during the song or if the song forms an important part of the movie, it gives Raja more scope for interludes. So I would agree with app_eng here that the director's vision and the profile of the movie may have much more bearing on the length of the interlude.

My 2c worth of thesis :)

"..he wonders" should actually read "..he does wonders".

One more Kamal song with lip-sync and detailed interludes - 'a,b,c nee vAsi ellAm un kai rAsi sO eezy'.

Since it's conversation-like between newly married couple, there had to be lip sync. At the same time, the director & MD wanted to have more fun and added a couple of quick incidents during the interludes (my most preferred way to watch sambavangaL on screen, no dialogues but phenomenal / poetic effect with action / expressions and BGM).

Reinforces my theory of interludes getting more affected by "flow of the movie" than lip-sync which is a small matter. (The scene prior to this song is one of the most romantic in TF history and there is great continuity in the song as well - everyone deserves great praise, Kamal / Radha / BR / IR / VM & K Bhagyaraj who scripted for this movie; he was way too brilliant those days. His ABC idea got reused by Vikram / Vivek in dhooL)