PDA

View Full Version : Neethane En Ponvasantham | Yeto Vellipoyindhi Manasu | Assi Nabbe Poorey Sau



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10

ajaybaskar
7th September 2012, 11:04 PM
In these days of FBs and twitters, these celebrities coming out and praising others' work has become quite common. I remember ARR praising Viswaroopam songs sometime back in spite of the fact that he has nothing to do with that album. Now Srini has done that for NEPV. Unfortunately Srini is being criticised and you know why.

app_engine
7th September 2012, 11:09 PM
sari-sari, seeni solRadhu oru pakkam irukkattum, sOny solRadha kELunga : (http://www.soundbox.co.in/neethane-en-ponvasantham%E2%80%99s-theatrical-trailer-crosses-1-2-mn-views-in-5-days/)



Says Ashok Parwani, Head South, Sony Music Entertainment, “It is phenomenal to see such great response from fans on the trailer as well as the music video. We have always been known for creating record breaking success on our digital platform and the movie’s trailer success will definitely make sure the music will also be a great hit. The combination of ace music director Ilaiyaraaja along with Gautham Menon promises to be a must watch and hear for all!”

Nerd
7th September 2012, 11:10 PM
Boss, THAT qualifier takes away whatever he had to say about the album. Even if that is his opinion, he should not have said that. idhai appadiyE ayyO kolraangaLE rangekku exaggerate pannradhukku endha avasiyamum illai. Couple of people here said they are against it, couple others said they are OK with that, there it ends.

And its a great thing, LOL! Its not a GVP album which needs appreciation from seniors.

sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
7th September 2012, 11:24 PM
Venki, I didn't add anything to that post. Totally copied from there. He has modified it now, as few hubbers said.

He said Ennodu Vaa Vaa sounded Dated to him. He didn;t say it was not nice or so, just that it sounded Dated for him. And one guy commented in that same page that EVV has heavy sounds of Yamaha DX7 an old synth which is not used now. Srini agreed to that comment and said its the reason why it sounded so for him. Then one guy in Raja fans group said that EVV is kind of flashback situation in the film and thus Raja would have done it wantedly. This apart, there was no complaints from him about Music.

We can ignore his 80s comment, some feel so, some feel it contemporary, some feel mixed. In reality all are true.

About Yuvan's singing, i don't worry.

What irked me is a deleted line of his comment - "... and do listen to the opening lines of gimme gimme ABBA"

That ARR reference too can be let off. WHat to do, thats his taste! Just becos he is in Music field, we cannot expect him to think in the lines of us. Also, may be, pozhappa paakkaNum illaiyaa!?

app_engine
7th September 2012, 11:24 PM
weekly top 10 albums at Flipkart - #1 NEPV (http://www.flipkart.com/mp3-downloads?_pop=mheader)

Looks like people buy more CDs than download the tracks :-)

(None of the tracks show up in the top 10 while the album is #1...also the price is only Rs 69 - it's not a steal, robbery :shock:)

kiru
7th September 2012, 11:26 PM
Boss, THAT qualifier takes away whatever he had to say about the album. Even if that is his opinion, he should not have said that. idhai appadiyE ayyO kolraangaLE rangekku exaggerate pannradhukku endha avasiyamum illai. Couple of people here said they are against it, couple others said they are OK with that, there it ends.

And its a great thing, LOL! Its not a GVP album which needs appreciation from seniors.
Right. I think he is using an opportunity to take a swipe at Yuvan (even though I do not like Yuvan's singing much and also feel ennodu vaa vaa is not fresh). "Our" own SrikanthD there, provides better insight and color on the synths in the second charanam.
I guess, whether you are a pro-singer or not, you need to be schooled here in TFMpage to have an appreciation for the genre that IR is evolving :-)

app_engine
7th September 2012, 11:32 PM
"Our" own SrikanthD there

Link please :-)

app_engine
7th September 2012, 11:41 PM
Link please :-)

Don't worry - I got it...our composer has commented on Srinivas' FB page...

Are there any review of Srikanth himself on NEPV somewhere in the web? (his blog is not active...dhool is not active...may be he does in his FB)

ajaybaskar
8th September 2012, 12:04 AM
Nerd,

Neither camp is going to worry about what Srini said. What was out of context was one hubber's observation of insecurity in ARR camp. That was kind of extremely funny and was no where related to the meaningful discussions going on NEPV numbers which I enjoyed reading. That's all your honour. :)

sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
8th September 2012, 12:40 AM
Lets leave it guys! பேனை பெருமாளாக்குறது, கேரிங்கா இருக்கு

app_engine
8th September 2012, 12:46 AM
The most accessible song of the NEPV album is on loop in my car for the last two days :

என்னோடு வா வா என்று சொல்லமாட்டேன்
உன்னை விட்டு வேறு எங்கும் போக மாட்டேன்

செல்லச்சண்டை போடுகின்றாய்
தள்ளி நின்று தேடுகின்றாய்

அஹ்ஹஹ்ஹா அன்பே என்னை தண்டிக்கவும்
புன்னகையில் மன்னிக்கவும் உனக்கு உரிமை இல்லையா?

I had to really dig deep to get my kudimakan post (http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?9702-GVM-s-Nee-Thaane-En-Pon-Vasantham&p=945979&viewfull=1#post945979), as there had been a deluge of posts on this album after that, both in TF section and here :-)

That way, even though that post is only 3 days old, it looks like I posted ages before!

Let me quote the relevant portion again :



ennOdu vA vA enRu solla mAttEn - michelob beer (or that green bottle Royal Challenge in India), sweet, goes in smoothly and effortlessly, especially lovable on a hot / dry day, with ultra chillness...need to take a few bottles before getting intoxicated (means listen a few times to get a high aka "pOdhum" feel)!


After umpteen more listens of the song, I still feel the same and I'm happy that my musical antenna / filters are intact! This song is a wonderful 'easy-listen' number in my case and I can enjoy it even during chaotic day-time rides.

rAsA songs are typically strong doses, taxing one's mind / physical / emotions etc and do a lot good during long night drives, keeping me extra alert. OTOH, during rush-hour or 'really-weary-after-work' kind of drives, I find them draining me, even making me impatient and so tend to switch to easy-listens (some justification for my 'kuchchu kuchchu' kai sooppals).

Now, ennOdu vA vA perfectly fits that slot! Make no mistake - I don't endorse Karthik as my replacement for Udit or anything like that here, he may have a reasonably sweet (well, gifted by genetics -may be toned by training) voice but is capable of only average singing by way of getting the right emotions. Or, may be I'm too old to understand the current gen romance where there're only attenuated emotions :wink: (I consciously keep SPB/KJY away when listening to this song, to not lose enjoyment). inthappaiyanukku 'kuRumbu' appadeenna ennennE theriyAthA? :sigh:

rAsA is on a kuRumbu mode, thru out the song - short and sweet bursts of instrumental responses to the singer in the pallavi and first saraNam are typical of him. And the dramatic synth turn during 2nd interlude / synth bass in saraNam could be situational for the movie (as speculated by Srikanth D in Srini's FB). Like Sureshji mentioned during the teaser time, it has some retro feel but I strongly object to any reference to "80's". Simply because, there had been no such prominent numbers in 80's - may be 60's feel. There's a song in 'entE manasiloru' from 'thEnmAvin kombaththu' (http://www.raaga.com/play/?id=20040)that was deliberately done in retro mode for stage dance, creating a 60's feel. Remember rAsA resorted to similar comical references to yesteryears in some songs during 80's (2nd interlude of rAjA kaiya vachchA references 'eNNi eNNippArththu manam inbam koNdAduthE').

Bottom line, I don't agree to this 'eightees feel' claim. Tell me sixtees feel for EVV song and let's talk.

ok, I'm blabbering without posting why I really picked this song to post about today! Simply because it's a Friday!

During the SPB-IR series, I used to pick a 'maRRa' song and often explained what the slang usage of that means in youththu-Malayalam. If one cannot recall, let me just say, 'maRRa paribAdi', that literally means 'the other program' is a slang for pAluRavu. That way, in this song, Na.Muthukumar has suddenly won over me with his kuRumbu and I'm doing a big vAbas on all the comments about him being so-so etc. ALu rombakkuRumbunga :wink:

I won't go into details (Plum will come and remind me family forum - family man). So, I'll just post the relevant lines of the poet and it's up to you to imagine things :

கன்னத்தில் அடிக்கும் அடி முத்தத்தாலே வேணுமடி
மற்றதெல்லாம் உன்னுடைய இதழ்களின் இஷ்டப்படி
:mrgreen:

app_engine
8th September 2012, 01:02 AM
BTW, as I mentioned previously, this song is Gautham's "gateway" for the current TFM listeners to "get into" the NEPV soundtrack.

He knows they're brought down to the level of enjoying only 'kolaveRi' & 'ennamO EdhO' kind of easy listens. If one serves them an 'iLanjOlai pooththadhA' (or something of similar complexity), they're going to be baffled / feel uncomfortable. Remember, both the female tracks (which may take time for current TFM-ers, why even some casual-kind IRFs, to digest) were completely shielded from all the earlier teaser / promo etc.

So, Gautam's plan must be to use EVV to bring the "mass crowd" into his fold with a gospel-music-like, instantly-catchy, retro-feel (and so quickly recalled / hum along etc) song, a teaser of it, promoting it in a mall etc to get them warm up to his new album. Compared to the sAindhu sAindhu teaser, EVV teaser had double the response! Even the varied views, reviews on the net and here and there seem to confirm that non-serious TFM listeners may choose EVV as their first choice from the album :-)

AravindMano
8th September 2012, 01:34 AM
Added Poll. Made it to take in more than one choice. If you think that's not fair, let me know.

KV
8th September 2012, 01:54 AM
Armano :thumbsup:.
saindhu saindhu and kaatrai konjam :yes:

By the way, can someone please add a poll option in the TFM section thread as well? Not a song-level one but probably to evaluate the general opinion of folks on the album as a whole.

jaiganes
8th September 2012, 02:18 AM
I voted for "PengaL Endraal" - really loopy rock song.. U1 - u have one supporter in me dude for your "feel" singing and nope - it was not him trying to ape ARR. ARR voice has even more deeper punch and would have rocked this song to the core, but u have done a great job too. and muththu kumar - when the dust settles down you would be praised too for your wholesome lyrics..

app_engine
8th September 2012, 02:23 AM
நான் எட்டுக்குமே போட்டுட்டேன்
:lol2:

app_engine
8th September 2012, 02:36 AM
BGM blog Suresh analyzing the orch (http://www.backgroundscore.com/2012/09/neethaane-en-ponvasantham-orchestration.html)



Now, what does that symmetry mean to an average listener? A sense of satisfaction that we inherently feel while listening to a piece of orchestral music could also be because of us intuitively experiencing the innateness, the precision and the clarity in the ideas of the creator that comes through the composition. There are no random music fillers or ambiguous musical ideas. When every single layer of instrument in the given piece of orchestral music feel like it is there for a specific definitive purpose, which it is serving with utmost diligence, you can’t help but fall obsessively in love with the music and the composer

app_engine
8th September 2012, 02:55 AM
India Today gives 4 stars (http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/neethaane-en-ponvasantham-music-review/1/216351.html)

Though I used to read their political / news articles with a lot of interest those days, I don't have any idea as to how their reviews of art items are. I don't even know if they regularly review film music albums.

In any case, this is seems to be an ok one :-)



...
Next up is Yennodu va va by Karthik. Inspired yet again from the 1980s, this soulful number qualifies as the best song of the album. You may find it very old-fashioned, but it is pleasing at the same time.

...
You couldn't have asked for a better album. Pick up this album and get drenched in the musical shower.

app_engine
8th September 2012, 02:59 AM
3 B's comment on rAsA (http://www.indiaglitz.com/channels/telugu/article/85632.html)



Balachander, who enjoyed the show with child-like enthusiasm, read out his experiences with Ilayaraja.

When asked about his favourite song among those composed by the maestro, KB said his vote was for 'Pooongatru Thirumbuma...' from his good friend Bharathiraja-directed 'Mudhal Mariyadhai'. Balachander, referring to Gautham Vasudev Menon, said the right age to direct love stories was 40 and it was during his 40s he made romantic films such as 'Ek Tujhe Keliye'.


I'm reminded of kumudam's April fool joke on KB :mrgreen:

Fliflo
8th September 2012, 03:37 AM
Neethane En Ponvasantham’s theatrical trailer crosses 1.2 mn views in 5 days!

~The trailer surpasses all records of the most viewed video ~

http://www.groundreport.com/Media_and_Tech/Neethane-En-Ponvasantham-s-theatrical-trailer-cros/2947917

kiru
8th September 2012, 04:05 AM
The most accessible song of the NEPV album is on loop in my car for the last two days :

என்னோடு வா வா என்று சொல்லமாட்டேன்
உன்னை விட்டு வேறு எங்கும் போக மாட்டேன்

...
Bottom line, I don't agree to this 'eightees feel' claim. Tell me sixtees feel for EVV song and let's talk.



Listen to chatriyan - yaaru pOttadhu and aboorva sahotharargal - pudhu maapillaikku .. Similar feel will be there .It is probably the same chords .. Yes, sixty's feel is also there..sort of a MGR song.. probably from the choice of words in the lyrics..

dochu
8th September 2012, 04:14 AM
Why would times of India say - It is IR's comeback. He never left the scene.
It was a irrelevant comment when he is still giving hits like Pazhassi Raja etc. I guess there should be some sort of qualifications or standards to be a reviewer. They shouldn't be writing things like I like this or don't like this like a layman like me.

Sunil_M88
8th September 2012, 04:27 AM
What to vote for? aarrrrghh I can't bear this punishment! I think I should write down the songs on slips and place them in hat lol Then choose at random.... Wait scrap this idea! Who am I kidding? I still believe the other songs are < Vaanam Mella.

You have all songs on one side and then you have this number, which is in a league of it's own :bow: After spending a week with this album, I can't help it but still feel that Nandalala and Thandavakone leave a longer impression over time in comparisons to Raaja Saab's recent releases. I just hope Vaanam Mella doesn't have the same consequence as Kai Veesi. Then again Gautham near enough covers all songs but then again some songs are used as BGM which the p*sses me off :(

rajkumarc
8th September 2012, 04:50 AM
Loving all the 8 songs and didn't realize it was a multiple choice poll and pulled the trigger soon, otherwise would have voted like App :smile:. Heart says Satru Munbu and mind wants Mudhal Murai and mind prevalied over the heart, voted for Mudhal Murai.

VinodKumar's
8th September 2012, 06:20 AM
Voted for Vaanam mella keezhirangi :). Din't know its multiple choice poll. Add Kaatril konjam and Ennodu vaa vaa.

AravindMano
8th September 2012, 07:00 AM
Vaanam Mella as shown during the audio launch.

https://t.co/9YQa49Rq

writeface
8th September 2012, 07:30 AM
Voted for Satru Munbu. Fantastic song! I can't seem to get over it. This album, as a whole, is an immersive affair. Raja has yet again demonstrated how he can
bring pop and classical sensibilities together!

Ennodu vaa has a breezy quality to it. I feel the synth work in the 2nd half underscores a subtle quickening of the song.

When is this movie opening?

Gokul

Sunil_M88
8th September 2012, 07:32 AM
Thanks for the share Aravind, nice additional interlude at 5:00. Why was it not in the released song :(

You gotta be kidding? GVM, why oh why :banghead: But I don't blame him, I doubt he would have been able to do justice to such a song. I hope he changes his mind and shoots it otherwise it'll be forwarded to Raja's unpicturized songs (http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?9402-Raja-s-unpicturized-songs-and-Songs-in-unreleased-movies) thread :(

K
8th September 2012, 07:40 AM
இத்தனை ஆண்டுகளும் அவரின் இசையை அனுபவித்து ரசித்து வந்த அனைவரும் சொல்லும் ஒரு சொல் , “இது முன்னது மாதிரி இல்லையே ?” என்று. செய்வதையே திரும்பத்திரும்பச் செய்து கொண்டிருப்பது படைப்பவனுக்கு பிடித்தமான விஷயம் இல்லை. இந்த “முன்னது மாதிரி இப்போது இல்லை “ என்பது அனைவரையும் நோக்கி சொல்லப்படும் குற்றஞ்சாட்டப்படும் ஒரு விஷயம் தான். அதற்கு இளையராஜாவும் விதி விலக்கில்லை. எல்லாப் படைப்பாளிகளும் சந்திக்கும் ஒரு விஷயந்தான் இது, தான் செய்த தனக்குப்பேர் வாங்கித்தந்த விஷயங்களையே மீண்டும் மீண்டும் செய்வதென்பது அவனுக்கு ஒரு சலிப்பையே தரும்.

இதைப்போன்ற விமர்சனங்கள் அவரின் “ ஸ்ரீராம ராஜ்யம்” பாடல்களுக்கு ஏன் வரவில்லை ? அது சாமி படம் அப்படித்தானிருக்கும் என்று எவரும் அதைக் கண்டுகொள்ளவேயில்லை.இது நாள் வரை அவரின் பாணி என்று கண்டறியக்கூடியது Western Classics With Our Traditional Music , Folk Music , நமது நாட்டார் பாடல்களுடன் மேற்கத்திய செவ்வியல் இசை கலந்து கொடுப்பது என்பதே ராஜாவின் பாணி.

உண்மையில் சொல்லப்போனால் நமக்கு , தமிழ் கூறும் நல்லுலகுக்கு “ Rock Music “ என்பது எப்போதுமே பிடிக்காத விஷயம்.அது என்னவோ எப்போதுமே பிடிப்பதில்லை.
இளையராஜா உட்பட அத்தனை இசையமைப்பாளர்களும் அதை ஊறுகாய் போல தொட்டுக்கொள்வதே வழக்கம். அதிக சத்தமும் , இரைச்சலும், கூப்பாடும் நமக்கு ஏனோ பிடிப்பதில்லை. இருப்பினும் நல்லது கெட்டதுகளில் நம்மை விட தாரை தப்பட்டைகள் அடித்து ஊரைக் கலக்குவதும் உலகில் வேறு எந்த இனமும் இல்லை.! இந்தியாவின் பிற மாநிலங்களில் கூட காண இயலாத ஒன்று இது . எனினும் “Rock Music” நமக்கு ஏனோ அன்னியமாகிப் போனது வியப்பு.

அதோடு ஒரு படத்தின் பாடல் என்பது முழுக்க முழுக்க இயக்குநரின் கையில் இருக்கிறது.எந்த மாதிரியான சூழல், எம்மாதிரியான இசை என்பதை அவரே தீர்மானிக்கிறார். இசையமைப்பாளனின் வேலை இயக்குநர் கேட்பதைக் கொடுப்பதே. தனித்தியங்க முடிவதில்லை, அது ராஜாவேயானாலும்.

இன்னும் சில பேர் “கேட்கக் கேட்கப்பிடிக்கும்” என்பது ரஹ்மானின் இசையைப்பற்றி சொல்வது, அது இப்போது ராஜாவிற்கும் வந்து விட்டதா என்று ! இது முழுக்க புதிய பாணி, இதுவரை ராஜா இது போன்ற முயற்சி செய்ததேயில்லை, எங்கோ ஓரிரு பாடல்களுக்கு Rock ஐத்தொட்டுப்பார்த்து விட்டு ரசிகர்கள் அதற்கு இணக்கம் தரவில்லை என்று அறிந்து கைவிட்டுவிட்ட இசைப்பாணி அது. “ போட்டு வைத்த காதல் திட்டம் ஓக்கே கண்மணி “ என்று “சிங்காரவேலனில்” இசைத்ததோடு நிறுத்தி விட்டார், அதற்கப்புறம் தொடரவே இல்லை. அதே போலத்தான் Jazz Music ம்.

இன்றைக்கும் எஃப்.எம் ரேடியோக்களிலும், இசைச்சேனல்களிலும் , Rock இசைப் பாடல்களை விரும்பிக்கேட்போர் என்று யாருமே இல்லை. சமீபத்தில் பிற
இசையமைப்பாளர்கள் இசையமைத்த Rock Music பற்றி சொல்லுகிறேன். இதையெல்லாம் யாரும் விரும்பிக்கேட்பதே இல்லை. இது மிகவும் நமக்கு அன்னியமான இசையாகவே ஆகிவிட்டது.

இருப்பினும் HipHop மட்டும் எப்படியோ தமிழுக்குள் புகுந்து கொண்டு ஆட்டிப்படைக்கிறது. வல்லவன் மற்றும் Yogi B “மடை திறந்து ஆடும் நதியலை நான்” பாடலை Remix செய்ததிலிருந்து தமிழில் Hip Hop பேயாட்டம் ஆடத்துவங்கி விட்டது. Orchestration, Instrumental Music என்பன இசையின் முக்கிய அங்கங்கள். எல்லாவற்றையும் ஒரு Synthezier ஏ செய்து விடும் என்பது மிகவும் தவறான முன்னெடுப்பு

தேநீரில் ஸ்நேகிதம் – சுப்ரமணியபுரம் – ஜேம்ஸ் வசந்தன்
Who Am I - வானம் – யுவன் ஷங்கர் ராஜா
Sadda Haq – Rock Star(ஹிந்தி) – ரஹ்மான்
வில்லாதி வில்லன்கள் எல்லோருமே – ராஜபாட்டை – யுவன் ஷங்கர் ராஜா
உனக்குள்ளே மிருகம் – பில்லா 2 - யுவன் ஷங்கர் ராஜா
தேடி வருவேன் – காதல் டூ கல்யாணம் - யுவன் ஷங்கர் ராஜா

“பெண்கள் என்றால் பொய்யா” என்ற பாடலும் “ புடிக்கல மாமு” என்ற பாடலும் இந்த ஆல்பத்தில் “Rock” இசைப்பாங்கில் அமைந்த பாடல்கள். “ சாய்ந்து சாய்ந்து “ Mild Rock with jazz mixed , “காற்றைக்கொஞ்சம்” பாடல் Jazz with Waltz , “வானம் மெல்லக்கீழறங்கி” ஒரு சிம்பொனி,. “என்னோடு வா வா “ கொஞ்சம் Pop கலந்து Jazz உடன் அமைந்த பாடல் இது. “சற்று முன்பு” , “முதல் முறை” இவையிரண்டும் ராஜாவின் பழைய எப்போதுமான நாம் கேட்டுப்பழகிய பாணியில் அமைந்த பாடல்கள்.

Hip Hop, Loop Music, Columbian, Synthesized Music என்ற விஷயங்களிலிருந்து ரசிகர்களை விடுபட வைக்கும் ஒரு பெரும் பொறுப்பு ராஜாவிற்கு இன்று உண்டு. புதிதாக அதுவும் முன்னெப்போதும் செய்திராத விஷயங்களைக்கேட்க வைக்க வேண்டும் என்பதே ராஜாவின் விருப்பமும் கூட. புது Trend Set பண்ணவேண்டுமென்பது விருப்பம். ராஜாவிற்குப்பின் ரஹ்மானைத்தவிர யாரும் புதிதாக Trend என்று எதுவுமே set செய்யவில்லை என்பதே நிஜம்.

புரியாத பல விஷயங்களை நாம் எப்போதும் பிடிக்கவில்லை என்று ஒதுக்கி வைப்பது சகஜம்.அதுதான் இன்றும் நிகழ்கிறது. Nothing but Wind, How To Name It மற்றும் அவரின் திருவாசகம் Symphony Oratorio வெளியான போது வந்த விமர்சனங்கள் போலத்தான் இப்போதும் “ நீ தானே என் பொன் வசந்ததிற்கும்” முன் வைக்கப்படுகிறது. தொடர்ந்து கேளுங்க, இந்தப்புதிய இசைப்பாணிக்கு உங்களைப் பழக்கப்படுத்திக் கொள்ளுங்கள் பின்னரும் கேட்கும்போது மட்டுமே அதன் தனித்தன்மையும் , இசை ஆழத்தையும் புரிந்து கொள்ளமுடியும்.

எல்லோரும் உடனே சொல்றது , ரெண்டு பாட்டு நல்லாருக்குன்னு, அது “ என்னோடு வா வா என்று “ மற்றும் “சாய்ந்து சாய்ந்து “ , ஏன்னு நான் இப்ப காரணம் சொல்றேன். உங்களுக்கே ஆச்சரியமாத்தான் இருக்கும், இவையிரண்டு பாடல்களும் 15-20 நாட்களுக்கு முன்னரே வெளியாகி கிட்டத்தட்ட அனைவரும் கேட்டுப் பழகிப்போனதால் , உடனே இந்த இரண்டு பாட்டுகளும் நல்லாருக்குன்னு சொல்றீங்க. அதையே படத்தின் மற்ற பாடல்களைப்பற்றியும் நீங்க இன்னும் கொஞ்ச நாள் கழிச்சு சொல்லப்போறீங்க , அதான் உண்மை, :-)

இன்னைக்கு ராஜாவின் பாடல்கள் பற்றிப் பேசுறதுங்கறது அவருடைய 30 ஆண்டு காலத்துக்கும் முந்தைய பாடல்களையே. அதையே பல காலம் கேட்டுக்கேட்டு பழகிப்போன காரணத்தால தான் அதைப்பற்றி இன்னும் சிலாகிச்சுப் பேச முடியுது.“பொன்வசந்தம்“ ஆல்பம் வெளிவந்து முழுசா ஒரு வாரம் கூட ஆகாத இந்த நாள்ல அதைப்பற்றி எதிர்மறையாகக் கருத்து சொல்வதும் , முன்னமாதிரி இல்லை என்று ஆதங்கப்பட்டுக்கொள்வதும் அத்தனை சரியல்லை.. :-)

- சின்னப்பயல் (chinnappayal@gmail.com)


FROM Facebook notes of http://www.facebook.com/RamTheRebel

V_S
8th September 2012, 08:13 AM
Senthilv and Sureshji already analyzed this composition to the core mainly on the mood and the orchestration and how it talks literally. I endorse their wonderful thoughts. :clap: Here are their posts in case you missed it. A must read for everyone.
http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?9846-Neethane-En-Ponvasantham-Yeto-Vellipoyindhi-Manasu-Assi-Nabbe-Poorey-Sau&p=944809&viewfull=1#post944809
http://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2012/09/04/pengal-enraal-nee-dhane-en-ponvasantham/

Little bit of history on how I approached PengaL endraal. :smile: To be honest, as you all know, I didn't have much hope on Yuvan's songs before the audio launch, given my taste for his off-shruthi singing and the songs he selects for singing (from his own albums). I hope it is also widely accepted about his singing talent. After saying all this, I definitely made up my mind that Maestro is always behind him unlike his own albums. That gave me strength to approach the two songs. I felt really comfortable after listening to Saayndhu Saayndhu, even though he had a sluggish start. More over in that song, he didn't have much high pitch notes, except for that 'adadaa' and one line in charanam. Step by step improvement; one, Maestro was behind him and second he did a decent job initially before getting into the groove completely in Saayndhu Saayndhu. These made me feel better about his singing. When I started listening to PengaL endraal (without headphones), that high pitch voice with flat take off even with that screaming guitar, put me off and I didn't have enough courage to go to the second line and I stopped it. Another interesting reason behind it; my wife was behind me when I started this song, and she immediately asked me, Is this Ilaiyaraaja's song?. Yuvan again? I didn't even utter a word as I know we hardly listened to 10 seconds of the song, but at the same time, I didn't want to go to it again, switched to Satru Munbu and that was my midsummer night's dream.

Right from the morning when I woke from the bed, I was screaming 'pengaL endraal poyya poithaanaa', my wife got offended, as if I was saying this to her. :lol: and my kids were laughing at my horrible singing. I don't know how I got that line correctly in the first 5-6 seconds of my listen last night and I was not even humming Satru Munbu which I was listening on loop last night. It was puzzling. If a mere few seconds of listening of a composition drives me to scream, I was asking myself, why did I stop then last night. I was not true to myself. Can't wait to reach office to find that (please don't blame me). First opened senthilv's write-up on that song (I remembered that he wrote on that song, but didn't read it that time as I didn't understand as I didn't listen to that song yet), followed by Suresh ji's review on that song. Immediately shutdown my ears to external influences with my headphones, but opened my inner ears wide open to grasp all the guitar madness inside me. Along with that Yuvan's singing too. What tasted like a raw bitter-guard last night tasted like a spicy pickle now. What tasted like a tender fruit yesterday turned to a ripe one today. What was water on a leaf yesterday, turned to yesterday's soaked fish curry today.

As they say, a theist never raise questions, an atheist never gets his answers, a theist try hard to be in dark and an atheist try hard to get out of darkness, but both remain at the same place all the time nevertheless. :lol: I was caught in between, when Yuvan (I mean the main character) asks question as an atheist, pengaL endraal poyya poithaanaa, peNNin kaadhal kaNNin maithaanaa?. Beautiful start by Na. Muthukumar. :clap: I already sensed the pitch darkness in the composition. In the next two lines, his mind answers as a theist (with no questions), peNgaLin kaadhalin artham ini muLLin mEl thoongidum paniththuLi (a smooth piano here as if nothing is played), kaalai veyyil vandhaalE OdipOgum thannaalE'. There is this third person (the love, heart) caught between both them tries to convince both of the above two minds and their questions. He thrives to move them out of the dark with 'enna solli enna peNNE, nenjam oru Kaathaadi thaththi thaththi unnidaththil thaavudhadi kooththaadi, showing the beauty of love and its eternity.

If you observe the only charanam, it again starts with a question,
இதற்குத்தானா ஆசை வைத்தாய் இதயம் கேட்குதே
இவளுக்குகாக துடிக்க வேண்டாம் என்று வெருக்குதே

the mind answers in the next four lines;
மதி கெட்ட என்னிடம் மனம் நொந்து சொன்னது
மரணத்தை போல் இந்த பெண் இவள் என்றது
தீயை போன்ற பெண் இவள்
என்று தெரிந்து கொண்டதே என் மனம்

the heart seduces both with
அன்பு செய்த ஆயுதங்கள்
பெண்ணிடத்தில் உண்டு ஏராளம்

It was puzzling the way I approached this composition initially; stopped without a question (theist) and asked a morning question about why did I miss last night (atheist). The composition also starts in the same fashion with (no) questions and (no) answers, yet the third entity trying to pull both of them out of darkness into the eternity; love. If this is not excellent lyrics, what else? :notworthy: We have seen lyrics good in parts, but it when you read it fully, it may not be continuous, and will not be in sync with the previous line. Here the lyrics is flowing throughout the song, as if the three entities of mind are waiting for each other to sing their mind. By the way, You might know the third entity who is pulling all us out of darkness is Maestro and his music.

Another important aspect in this composition is it does not have the usual structure of pallavi-anupallavi-charanam-pallavi-charanam-pallavi. There is that second anupallavi too in enna solli enna peNNE, nenjam oru Kaathaadi thaththi thaththi unnidaththil thaavudhadi kooththaadi. This is the part which is most beautiful and towers high. This also denotes the character is not in normal mood, that too for a male. Everything has a reason in Maestro's composition. He does not exactly do the same in female solos; Mudhal murai (he removed a charanam rather than adding a anupallavi) or in Satru Munbu (he retained the structure).

Same way if we come to the arrangements as Sureshji and senthilv pointed out, Maestro used only three instruments, guitar, drums and piano (only for few seconds). We cannot tell from the song that it is minimalistic with just three instruments, as the guitar was itself a roaring like a thunder. The grandness is achieved just with the guitar. Attila's hands to be kissed. :notworthy: As Yuvan sings in asking tone, guitar also joins with him everytime, same way the guitar comes to answering mode again. Genre-wise even if call generally a 'Rock' based song, it traverses so many sub-genres of rock right from hard rock at the start, moving to progressive rock in the anupallavi to psychedelic rock in the interludes and to rock ballad in the charanam. The best part of guitar I loved is during the repeat pallavi (before the charanam) is when it was played in counter mode with the vocals. Truly Maestro blasted there! :notworthy: A touch of marvel by the genius! Sameway, how Maestro suddenly switches from hard rock within a second to psychedelic rock in the interlude is a beauty. Suddenly everything came to a stop almost. For few seconds I smell Europe's Final countdown in the interlude. A great tribute to rock bands of 60s and 70s.

Even after all this rock influences in the song, as I always tell this is a pure thamizh song with our heart. Please try substituting english lyrics to this tune and you will know how pathetic it will sound. But it is a wonder how the guitars rocks with profound subject to this native song. That's why Maestro is a genius unmatched.
Yuvan's singing is a beauty once we get past the initial sluggishness. The emotions are right there and his voice is a perfect fit for this kind of song. :clap: Maestro behind him helped him and us a lot. There is lot of soul in the tune especially the anupallavi lines; enna solli enna peNNE nenjam oru kaathaadi and the whole of chararanam. Dipped in melody. That is a special nature of Maestro's composition to give ample sweetness, imparting the soul, keeping his signature, even with limited scope given the situation and the type of orchestration used. It is very difficult to compose like this not compromising on anything. That is a huge leap in composition! On a superficial layer one can only hear abhaswaram, noise and nothing else. There are no questions. At the other layer, there are only questions. Is this by Maestro? Why can't he change the singer? Why thaamarai is not used? There are no answers to this. This is the another kind of darkness which most want to live in as an atheist and a theist. Why can't we be the encounters of the third kind and come out of the darkness with the help of Maestro and his love? :smile:

PS: munjaameen - if my post hurt any one as I have referenced theist/atheist (but in lighter vein), please let me know, I will remove it.

V_S
8th September 2012, 08:14 AM
Complete lyrics:
பெண்கள் என்றால் பொய்யா பொய்தானா
பெண்ணின் காதல் கண்ணின் மைதானா

பெண்களின் காதலின் அர்த்தம் இனி
முள்ளின் மேல் தூங்கிடும் பனித்துளி
காலை வெய்யில் வந்தாலே
ஓடிப்போகும் தன்னாலே

காதல் வரும் முன்னாலே ஓ..ஓ..
கண்ணீர் வரும் பின்னாலே ஓ..ஓ..

என்ன சொல்லி என்ன பெண்ணே
நெஞ்சம் ஒரு காத்தாடி
தத்தி தத்தி உன்னிடத்தில்
தாவுதடி கூத்தாடி

பெண்கள் என்றால் பொய்யா பொய்தானா
பெண்ணின் காதல் கண்ணின் மைதானா

இதற்குத்தானா ஆசை வைத்தாய்
இதயம் கேட்குதே
இவளுக்குகாக துடிக்க வேண்டாம்
என்று வெருக்குதே
மதி கெட்ட என்னிடம்
மனம் நொந்து சொன்னது
மரணத்தை போல் இந்த
பெண் இவள் என்றது
தீயை போன்ற பெண் இவள்
என்று தெரிந்து கொண்டதே என் மனம்
அன்பு செய்த ஆயுதங்கள்
பெண்ணிடத்தில் உண்டு ஏராளம்

பெண்கள் என்றால் பொய்யா பொய்தானா
பெண்ணின் காதல் கண்ணின் மைதானா

sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
8th September 2012, 08:54 AM
India Today gives 4 stars (http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/neethaane-en-ponvasantham-music-review/1/216351.html)

Though I used to read their political / news articles with a lot of interest those days, I don't have any idea as to how their reviews of art items are. I don't even know if they regularly review film music albums.

In any case, this is seems to be an ok one :-)

App, see this rev from NDTV -> http://movies.ndtv.com/movie_story.aspx?Section=Movies&ID=264260&subcatg=&keyword=regional&nid=264260 :lol2: North Indian dumb medias will buy rights to an article and publish same articles on whatever is popular!

raghavendran
8th September 2012, 09:26 AM
voted for Vaanam mella,Saaindu and Katrai konjam

venkkiram
8th September 2012, 09:27 AM
Neethane En Ponvasantham - Audio Launch - Just 1.15 mins but HD quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3gLYX37GOY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cTN3Occ4ls&feature=related

Anban
8th September 2012, 09:36 AM
Did you notice that hilarious sentence? Just shows how insecure people in ARR's camp are. Can't even praise an album from other composers wholeheartedly. Very very lame.

This guy is an absolute irritant .. srinivas :banghead: .. ethaavathu NRI kovil_la poyi poosaari vela paakkattum ..

Sureshs65
8th September 2012, 09:45 AM
V_S,

Super writeup as usual.

I did not realise it was a multiple choice poll!!! Ended up voting for 'mudhal murai'. Otherwise would have voted for all the 8 songs. All songs in loop.

app,

Nice writeup on 'ennodu vaa vaa'. BTW, the lyrics are by one old man called Rasayya and not Na.Muthukumar :lol:

V_S
8th September 2012, 09:51 AM
Thanks Suresh ji. I voted for all the songs. :lol2:

Gregorysab
8th September 2012, 11:19 AM
Voted for 6 of the 8 songs in the album

Senareb
8th September 2012, 11:37 AM
voted 8 songs...

Raaja sir paattai pidikkala'nu solla namakku ena thaguthi irukku...:smile2:

thumburu
8th September 2012, 12:01 PM
Did anybody feel like me "vaanam mella" on similar lines of the celtic violined beauty "rangu rangu" of 2009 fame "Prem Kahani" ? If only Shreya were to sing in the place of Baal aka Shindu ....... hm........

Iam finding Karthik's "chandhithu chindhithu " bothersome. Coaching like this by IR coterie?

MelHarmony
8th September 2012, 12:05 PM
Mel was mentioning few reasons while he disagreed for the review.
one was SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA FOR FILM MUSIC.
It is the continuation of that conversation..
senthil was saying somethibg, i posted something... so..

you carry on....
you enjoy NEPV:musicsmile:

unfortunately I posted something, went away for 3 hrs baseball, returned now, posting reply!
didn't mean to obstruct your enjoyment... though it is!

We are done!

I think i didnt put my message clear...I too agree we are liking this album not just because it done using the SO from Hungary. as we all know IR always makes it grand when the demand for a music album is grand...he has just delivered that. He could have simply created these tracks using a computer....would we agree to that listening....i certainly dont think so because we all fans wanted something special and every thing has been special about this album....except for the delayed launch other things have fallen in place as per plans....A pure computerized album would not have created this feel..Everyone knows that when the music is being recorded from native instruments the harmony content is quite rich and natural without...this is what we have been listening over the decades from all legendary composers...I sincerely feel we must not leave this art of orchestral music to die and there must be more and more composers embracing IR's type of music recording....otherwise all hell will break loose to give way for plastic music...

Given this situation, I felt the rediff reviewer was not sensitive to the grandeur and richness of the music..hence I included the criteria "Sumphonic orchestra"...

MelHarmony
8th September 2012, 12:24 PM
app,

It was VinodKumar who referred to the drumming in detail first I think. The drummer is superb. Met one Raja fan who had come from Chennai and had tea with him. Walked back home for 1.5kms and all I did was listen to ONLY the drumming in 'mudhal murai' throughout the walk, multiple times. As Vinod had said, they have placed the mike perfectly so you can hear every part of the drum perfectly. This is like an album by Cream or LedZeplin. You can just concentrate on one instrument at a time and you will still be very very happy.

The quality of drumming sound is truly great in this album..no doubt that. this due to multiple factors such as quality of the instrument, tuning, mic placement, recording and of course the drummer skill (not in any particular order of priority).
Though I feel drumming has been much better when compared to other IR albums in the recent past, (which gave me lot of satisfaction, particularly without seeing Sivamani again with IR), I felt, at some places in the album, the drummer could have done better and misses one or two roll beat during transition such as "interlude--to--charanam" or vice versa....listen carefully in pengal song or Mudhal murai or Pudikkalae....

My final take on drumming in this album:
I am really satisfied with the drumming sound, beats, rolls except fomr some minor instances which is OK because that is what orchestral music is all about. it can be only 99% perfect.

Sureshs65
8th September 2012, 12:26 PM
thumburu,

There was a reference to 'Rangu Rangu' by another friend in twitter. I think it has probably to do with the gait of both the songs being the same. I generally have never had any problem with Bela's singing in Raja's music till now but in this particular song her voice sounds a bit screechy. Yes, Shreya would have been a good choice. If not, atleast Sunidhi.

MelHarmony
8th September 2012, 12:36 PM
1. In Saindhu Saindhu.. the high-hats are used in closed mode.. the sound after the strike is more subdued versus the open mode where in the sound strike is resonated for couple of milli seconds and then it is closed as he keeps striking it in certain intervals.
2. Regarding the "Rim Click", its the tapping sound that you hear right after the initial rendition of "Saindhu Saindhu" is that when he strikes the stick on the rim of the snare drum or it could be mini version of a drum which produces the "tak... tak" sound.. Any drummers out there?

The more impressed instrument for me is the Acoustic drums and Guitar.. The Drums dominate the whole album followed by Guitar (Acoustics/Electric). You can see the brass/Flute/Oboe dominating every now and then.. This is a musical treat for all of us..

Yes Vinodh. But rim click is typically used as fillers. we are hearing this sound as the main aspect of drumming...in fact without this sound the whole song will lose some pep...it is so beautifully timed and paced...
Since it is coming as one of the main element and mainly the sound is so consistently sounding throughout the song (because rim clicks cannot be tuned, you might know) I got a doubt if it was a special treble tom-tom, normally placed in between the regular tom-tom...you can differ here.

Sureshs65
8th September 2012, 12:44 PM
I felt, at some places in the album, the drummer could have done better and misses one or two roll beat during transition such as "interlude--to--charanam" or vice versa....listen carefully in pengal song or Mudhal murai or Pudikkalae....

My final take on drumming in this album:
I am really satisfied with the drumming sound, beats, rolls except fomr some minor instances which is OK because that is what orchestral music is all about. it can be only 99% perfect.

My personal take is that given the high quality of drummer and Raja's need for perfection in orchestration, these would definitely have been something planned and not mistakes. I don't know anything about about drumming technically to counter your argument but I guess Raja would not have allowed the mistake and I don't think it would have been something that the drummer is not capable of doing.

Sureshs65
8th September 2012, 12:46 PM
And Mel, I have read comments in one of the groups (yahoo groups?) where people had argued that Purushottaman was probably a far better drummer than Sivamani. Looks like Puru was the main drummer for most of the 80s songs and he is very highly regarded in the music circles. Ofcourse, Sivamani is more flamboyant.

thumburu
8th September 2012, 01:16 PM
Aakarsh, I have 2 requests.
1. Please provide the Telugu version of "sAindhu sAindhu" . Shaan did a good job of Raaja's "mudi mudi" in "pA".
2. I am unable to read your review as the color scheme of your web page is not conducive to my eyes. Kindly paste it here. Thank you.
I feel there is yuvan's hand in the making of "pengaL endrAl". Very much like a Yuvan song with rock flavor

ajaybaskar
8th September 2012, 01:29 PM
While listening to Vaanam Mella, I was reminded of 'Thendral vandhu theendum'. A very slight resemblance though..

Plum
8th September 2012, 01:51 PM
On Srinivas's bringing in ARR:
Ajaybhaskar: Look at it this way. A few days back when Raghav invoked Rockstar in comparison to NEPV, Maddy immediately posted "RockstarA ada poppA, dont invoke Rockstar in this context" type comment to Raghav. paalootti valartha kiLi pAttu kooda pAdinAru Maddy w.r.t that comment and similar rappreciation of NEPV by Raghav.

Edhukku solREnnA, when you invoke another composer in your review of current song, hardcore fans of both composers feel uncomfortable. Perhaps, it is natural.

This is the equivalent of Shreya Ghoshal reviewing Rockstar nd saying "X is good. Y is awesome. Nobody here (except Raja sir) can do this".
Given her Raja-doting history, HC Rahman fans will have a similar reaction as Teja did here.

Ofcourse, we can ask all of these HC fans to rise above camp-politics but avangaLum vENumnE seyyaRadhA theriyala - adhu oru natural reactionA vandhudhdhu pOla



BTW, no ShreyavA? aniyAyam. i yAm thinking of Geofrreying this album :evil:

Plum
8th September 2012, 02:02 PM
Oh Srikanth Devarajan giving gushing comments :shock:. Man gave up on Raja two decades ago almost. That does tell something, then.

ajaybaskar
8th September 2012, 02:29 PM
Plumji,

I understand the feeling of IR fans. :) But my problem was with another line of Teja's. Let's leave it here,mate. No issues whatsoever.

Plum
8th September 2012, 02:35 PM
ippO dhAn Filmfare awards video engEyO kANa kidaithadhu. Female playback singing awards mattum fast forward paNNi pArthEn.

Deivakuzhandhai got 3 for Kannada, Malayalam and Telugu. And even tamil, Sinna mayyi host-A andha programukku uzhaithadhunAla vengala kiNNam koduthurppAnga. What ay!

And kozhandhai in acceptance video: "3 pAttukku award kidaichAlum, jagadhanandha karaka dhAn en favourite"

Raja saar - indha kozhandhaikku chance kodukkAma ipdi oru high profile album pannalama?

San_K
8th September 2012, 02:42 PM
Poll

33 voters and 130 votes so far. This means a person voted for 4 options, averagely. What an album...!!!. I am yet to vote

Hulkster
8th September 2012, 04:14 PM
I feel there is yuvan's hand in the making of "pengaL endrAl". Very much like a Yuvan song with rock flavor

Common to deduce that way but the rhythm of the electric guitar and the subtle orchestration is sincerely thalaivar's. Most of yuvan's rock-styled songs are too close to popular rock bands with no distinguishable style and usually alienate the main melody. Besides thalaivar has experimented with rock in yaari gagi of bhajari bete, sing swing of moodupani and many pre-85 songs.Some of the movie club,disco and item numbers of that era that thalaivar composed had rock influences.

Plum
8th September 2012, 04:31 PM
IR fans feeling enakku puriyudhu

IR fans feeling illai. ellA HC fans feelingum adhu dhAn. Maddy exhibhited the same not many days ago. varalARu miga mukkiyam :)

musiukunit
8th September 2012, 05:13 PM
Common to deduce that way but the rhythm of the electric guitar and the subtle orchestration is sincerely thalaivar's. Most of yuvan's rock-styled songs are too close to popular rock bands with no distinguishable style and usually alienate the main melody. Besides thalaivar has experimented with rock in yaari gagi of bhajari bete, sing swing of moodupani and many pre-85 songs.Some of the movie club,disco and item numbers of that era that thalaivar composed had rock influences.

I am hearing Pengal Endral again and again and it just shows the true greatness of raja
I read once when semmangudi said raja knows the essence of raagas like nobody else..
And the way he has understood the metallic genre is incredible..(in hindsight he is the king of indian death metal..nan kadavul, thandavakone :smile2:)

The drum patterns and guitars are on the mark for metal and he has cleverly reduced the intensity as people not used to it will feel too noisy..
Even the ending wind sound is so metallic
The drum/guitar pattern when yuvan sings "madhi ketta" reminds me of one of my favourite radiohead song

Its incredible that a a guy around 70 does this...

Sunil_M88
8th September 2012, 05:17 PM
What Raja can do in a couple of minutes [composing tunes and writing scores] might take ARR weeks or more. So no comparisons there.

Let us take credits at the face value.

Since when did writing music become a race :roll: I'm still not 100% about the face value notion. What seems so simple at first, ends up being so complex that unearthing becomes endless. However, are we here to enjoy or unearth? Both Raaja Saab and Rahman Ji always have enough scope in their material that enjoying and unearthing are equally satisfying. The bottom line is that, a Gold status of a song is achieved by the layers of a composition and IMO this sometimes contributes more importantly than the mainstay melody. Melody is "anything" and layering is "everything"!

Knowing the sad person I am, I had to go look up in the dictionary :lol:

Anything

any thing whatever : any such thing

Everything

all that exists; all that relates to the subject

Many songs have overlapping melodies e.g. raagams but it is the ambiance and additional instrumentation that gives a song its true UNIQUENESS

Sorry for getting carried away

Sunil_M88
8th September 2012, 05:40 PM
Dig//

Tagore and Einstein discussing music.

http://www.parrikar.org/essays/tagore-einstein/

EPIC :bow:

AravindMano
8th September 2012, 05:57 PM
Jaya TV has started playing teasers for the audio launch show with 'coming soon'.

musiukunit
8th September 2012, 06:15 PM
The bottom line is that, a Gold status of a song is achieved by the layers of a composition and IMO this sometimes contributes more importantly than the mainstay melody. Melody is "anything" and layering is "everything"!
[/I][/SIZE]

What?????

So you mean to say a melody cannot be without layering
You cannot dissect music like that...everything is part of parcel of the whole..there are 1000s of great songs without any complex layering..

I think that is the perfect music..when it is whole..when you cannot dissect..when you cannot touch a note
and that is why i guess Raja does it instantly rather than taking weeks and months of trying permutations and combinations...
It is not to boast that he can do a song in a day where others take weeks and months..
He wants music to happen rather than created..

That is why he has so many songs where we feel this cant be raja as it is bad...(music just didnt happen)
Whereas others can give catchy songs after catchy songs because they always create and play all combinations and make sure it is decent enough

But the flip side is when "music happens" for raja it is timeless
music like rasave unna nambi or thumbi vaa

.. u cannot touch it..improvise it..or change it..
Music just happens and freezes

senthilv.com
8th September 2012, 06:48 PM
What?????

So you mean to say a melody cannot be without layering
You cannot dissect music like that...everything is part of parcel of the whole..there are 1000s of great songs without any complex layering..

I think that is the perfect music..when it is whole..when you cannot dissect..when you cannot touch a note
and that is why i guess Raja does it instantly rather than taking weeks and months of trying permutations and combinations...
It is not to boast that he can do a song in a day where others take weeks and months..
He wants music to happen rather than created..

That is why he has so many songs where we feel this cant be raja as it is bad...(music just didnt happen)
Whereas others can give catchy songs after catchy songs because they always create and play all combinations and make sure it is decent enough

But the flip side is when "music happens" for raja it is timeless
music like rasave unna nambi or thumbi vaa

.. u cannot touch it..improvise it..or change it..
Music just happens and freezes

Excellent points. A music can be phenomenally good without any layering. In a way there is layering in a simple melody but on the horizontal side. On time scale. Why two notes doesn't appeal to us as music but three notes appeals as music has confounded many musicians and critics alike. We have some sort of hard-wiring for melodic music more than WCM. WCM is a bit learned quality. So a true melody with no layering could be moving. Just like a baby responding to a simple lullaby.

Look at Hollywood music output nowadays. Good temporal feeling with no long lasting feeling because their melodic quotient is completely gone. WCM has to be done right other wise it is too much noise. I prefer strong melody over average WCM.

Lastly, often great masters like Raja & MSV "realize" music as they come up with it. They are not just creative types. They manifest it.

Shankar.P
8th September 2012, 06:53 PM
Gautham Menon says NEP is special...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/regional/tamil/news-interviews/Gautham-Menon-says-NEP-is-special/articleshow/16311281.cms

Senareb
8th September 2012, 07:13 PM
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/560882_524595637566426_863668481_n.jpg

Surprise your friends who call you for making Sunday plans with a new caller tune from Neethane En Ponvasantham. Just dial Vodafone's toll free number 5670011 to set your favourite track.

app_engine
8th September 2012, 08:01 PM
Listen to chatriyan - yaaru pOttadhu and aboorva sahotharargal - pudhu maapillaikku .. Similar feel will be there .It is probably the same chords .. Yes, sixty's feel is also there..sort of a MGR song.. probably from the choice of words in the lyrics..

nanRi Kiru sir for introducing that sweet kshAtriyan song to me :-)

It's of the same style like pudhu mAppiLLaikku / rumbumbum (even mAmAvukku kudummA kudummA)...IMHO, these songs themselves can be called retros / throwbacks during their time :-)

Not as explicit like 'nAn siriththAl deepAvaLi' but in some undefinable manner. (For that matter, "time bracketing" music itself is a crime IMHO, still).

In other words, such samples are not quintessential 80's, like poongARRu thirumbumA / onna nenachchEN / vAzha vaikkum kAdhalukku / mAnguyilE.

Just my 2 cents :-)

Sunil_M88
8th September 2012, 08:07 PM
What?????

So you mean to say a melody cannot be without layering
You cannot dissect music like that...everything is part of parcel of the whole..there are 1000s of great songs without any complex layering..

I think that is the perfect music..when it is whole..when you cannot dissect..when you cannot touch a note
and that is why i guess Raja does it instantly rather than taking weeks and months of trying permutations and combinations...
It is not to boast that he can do a song in a day where others take weeks and months..
He wants music to happen rather than created..

That is why he has so many songs where we feel this cant be raja as it is bad...(music just didnt happen)
Whereas others can give catchy songs after catchy songs because they always create and play all combinations and make sure it is decent enough

But the flip side is when "music happens" for raja it is timeless
music like rasave unna nambi or thumbi vaa

.. u cannot touch it..improvise it..or change it..
Music just happens and freezes

Layering does not necessarily always mean a horrendous mishmash of contrapuntal sounds.

There is an Italian word "Sprezzatura" which suggests all technical aspects, but the basic attitude and the basic emotion is very simple, but very complex at the same time.

The two songs you have mentioned cannot merely be dissected and to the average listener who doesn't care about technicalities, soothing melodies will jump at them first in comparison to layers anyway. But the layers do have a helping hand in making songs timeless. More layers result in more depth and volume, which is why we find songs which were released two or three decades ago very fresh today, as something new pops up after every listen. One should not confuse layers with instrumentation. Even a cappella's are layered! Name me one solo a cappella without backing vocals that has proven time wrong?

As a listener we sometimes block aspects other than mainstay melody and I'm not denying that melody is king but for e.g. the orchestration in "Vaanam Mella" pierces the soul completely, why? We don't know what one out of many players in the quartet feels when playing for Raaja Saab. Do they also get completely engulfed by the melody or do just wanna do their job and go home? Either way, every player has their own way and they are just minuscule part of the many layers (players) that contribute to the final product. And even if everything is done single handedly by Raaja Saab, it is still conglomerated with so many other nuances (also written by him) that don't appear obvious at first. So it boils down to the mastering of the final product, which is what manipulates us in giving our verdict for a particular song.

BTW I'm only expression my view on layers in relation to the melody which is sung and not back melodies played on respected instruments.

app_engine
8th September 2012, 08:11 PM
V_Sji,

As usual, excellent post on 'peNkaL enRAl'!

Though this & pudikkala mAmu are in my 'relatively-less-heard' list, they have their own special charm :-)




'ennodu vaa vaa'. BTW, the lyrics are by one old man called Rasayya and not Na.Muthukumar

I think all songs are credited to Na.Mu. (I don't have the CD, but remember reading somewhere that Na.Mu telling this in the release function).

Parts of the pallavi lines could have been given by IR (which is not unusual, like 'iLaya nilA') but rest was possibly by Na.Mu. Much like the 'un kaNNil neer vazhindhAl en nenjil udhiram kottudhadi' TMS song getting the pallavi from Bharathi :-)

That way, I still think 'maRRathellAm unnudaiya idhazhkaLin ishtappadi' could be from Na.Mu and want to give him credit, unless the fact is otherwise :-)

Sureshs65
8th September 2012, 08:29 PM
app,

You may be right there. The CD credits everything to Na.Mu. In the Jaya TV program Gautham was saying that Raja had written the lines, 'ennodu vaa vaa'. As you said, Raja would have just given the pallavi for Muthukumar to improvise on. Going by the CD credits, whatever is good or bad in the lyrics of this song, is the doing of Muthukumar :D

musiukunit
8th September 2012, 08:54 PM
BTW I'm only expression my view on layers in relation to the melody which is sung and not back melodies played on respected instruments.
I thought you were the one who said But it is the ambiance and additional instrumentation that gives a song its true UNIQUENESS

But now you say you are talking about layering in melody..thats confusing..

Like senthil V said perfectly

In a way there is layering in a simple melody but on the horizontal side.
How can there be music without layering... (horizontal/vertical)

Horizontal or vertical / dense or simple doesnt decide greatness..

brigs
8th September 2012, 09:00 PM
Common to deduce that way but the rhythm of the electric guitar and the subtle orchestration is sincerely thalaivar's. Most of yuvan's rock-styled songs are too close to popular rock bands with no distinguishable style and usually alienate the main melody. Besides thalaivar has experimented with rock in yaari gagi of bhajari bete, sing swing of moodupani and many pre-85 songs.Some of the movie club,disco and item numbers of that era that thalaivar composed had rock influences.

IR experiment panna - adhu thani style. love it.
ARR experiment panna - adhu innoru style. love it too.

I'm loving NEPV album... IR has done very well. There are moments from 80s & 90s.... but hey, IR shines as melody king. Loving it :)

Nerd
8th September 2012, 09:00 PM
Neethane En Ponvasantham - Audio Launch - Just 1.15 mins but HD quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cTN3Occ4ls&feature=related
WOW! Sounds so good. Don't think younger Raaja would have sounded as good as this if he were to record the original in his voice. Gives an entirely new dimension to this awesome song. Malaysia/SPB/KJY and Raaja all of them have sung this now :-)


Vaanam Mella as shown during the audio launch.

https://t.co/9YQa49Rq
nallaaththaan irukku, Jeeva-va mattum delete pannanum eppadiyaavadhu.

Sunil_M88
8th September 2012, 09:08 PM
I'm talking about layers backing the melody (singing) i.e. the lines of mine which you boldly highlighted. Clear? Where did I mention "layering in melody"?

I'm not sure whether you're agreeing with SenthilV or not. BTW no one knows what decides greatness :)

Sureshs65
8th September 2012, 09:12 PM
My writeup on 'Vaanam Mella': http://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2012/09/08/vaanam-mella-nee-dhane-en-ponvasantham/

kiru
8th September 2012, 09:14 PM
Excellent points. A music can be phenomenally good without any layering. In a way there is layering in a simple melody but on the horizontal side. On time scale. Why two notes doesn't appeal to us as music but three notes appeals as music has confounded many musicians and critics alike. We have some sort of hard-wiring for melodic music more than WCM. WCM is a bit learned quality. So a true melody with no layering could be moving. Just like a baby responding to a simple lullaby.

Look at Hollywood music output nowadays. Good temporal feeling with no long lasting feeling because their melodic quotient is completely gone. WCM has to be done right other wise it is too much noise. I prefer strong melody over average WCM.

Lastly, often great masters like Raja & MSV "realize" music as they come up with it. They are not just creative types. They manifest it.

Awesome.. you bring a "architectural/conceptual" analysis to music here. I'd like to do the same but you are doing it much much better (even the earlier post on symphony). I guess I have expressed similar views earlier - that indian music the variations are in the linear time scale and in the WCM the variations are in the parallel/concurrent time scale. Between MSV and IR, I think MSV is more weighted on the indian style and IR is more on the WCM style. I think either consciously to differentiate himself or not IR has gone in this direction. The current album is an exercise where he has written intricate harmony parts.
Again, I can safely say "melody" is the backbone of the music. The "layering" is basically a decoration whether in ICM or WCM. I agree with you that we indians are focussed on the linear melody but even in Europe the "popular" ones have a strong melodic backbone. Works rich in harmony are more "classical" (sponsored by churches and kings).
Keep those posts coming..actually please blog them..so that it does not scroll off with the deluge of posts/party atmosphere we have here now. I will subscribe to it ..Thanks

Sunil_M88
8th September 2012, 09:14 PM
The heart and soul of Ilaiyaraaja’s music for Gautam Vasudev Menon’s Neethaane En Ponvasantham lies in the Orchestration. It is not just the preludes and interludes (as expected, interlude stands on its own as a mini symphony with its own motif and its variations); even the vocal portions are heavily supported by the orchestra with many layers of instruments parading one after and one over the other playing supporting and contrapuntal phrases. The immensity of details that Ilaiyaraaja plants in the orchestration of the song is mind boggling, and these details, even if a listener is not really conscious of its presence cannot escape from experiencing the resultant effect.

I am still wondering why Ilaiyaraaja chose to split the song Yennodu Vaa Vaa into two halves and treated each half differently; Raaja writes a symphonic orchestration for the first half, but strips off all that is acoustic from the second half and leaves it entirely to Synth. If it is to demonstrate the difference between lovers now and then as demanded by the script, it is interesting that Ilaiyaraaja explicitly says something by retaining the melody as it is and changing only the orchestration. Musically, I don’t know if it is a valid case to compare and discuss, because, in the first half, with a live orchestra, Raaja stuffs the song with multiple layers of instruments, but he practices a deliberate restraint when the song switches to Synth mode. The melody is allowed to play on its own with a very minimal Synth backing (just a Synth bass I guess) and a pounding electronic pad. I don’t really miss the symphonic orchestration in the second half, for it gives the melody a breathing space and a chance to flaunt its beauty on its own. Even if the entire song were set to Synth I would have hummed, whistled and played the song on loop in my mind as much as I do now.

However, now that I have heard the songs with all those accompanying acoustic orchestral layers, I cannot play just the melody of the song in my mind. The orchestration feels immensely innate to the main melody that when I try to play the song in my mind, all the orchestral layers almost always accompany the main melody, like that Guitar riff (not the main guitar riff) from Saindhu Saindhu that accompanies the lines en thaaiyai pola oru pennai Thedi or that stirringly subdued, brief rise and fall of a dense strings section when Karthik goes thalli thalli ponaalum unnai enni vazhum oru yezhai endhan nenjathai paaradi (that Oboe piece is jarring though) in Kaatrai Konjam.

The melodies of Mudhal Murai Paartha Nyaabagam and Sattru munbu depend a lot on the backing orchestration to evoke the basic mood and emotion of the respective songs. I am not sure if the melody of the line manadhinil yeno or baaram (from Mudhal Murai) can convey the heaviness of the heart the girl is screaming about without that orchestral backing where a hefty strings section aggressively ascend along with the melody. The mad rush created by the drums and strings in dramatic turn the song takes through veyila mazhaiya vazhiyaa sugamaa yedhu nee to hit the high before it breaks into Neethaane En Ponvasantham hook section - this song wouldn’t be as effective without the live orchestration.

Ilaiyaraaja seems to be cautiously introducing the changes in the orchestration in a regular interval in the songs, so that, even though the orchestration changes relentlessly throughout the song somehow listeners know when to expect the next twist or turn. This helps a great deal in not alienating a listener. The element of surprise is very important in orchestral music that could instantly intrigue a listener. Ilaiyaraaja quite effectively manages to give these orchestral surprises without alienating the listener.

I don’t know if it is to avoid sounding repetitious or to impart a new sound, but Ilaiyaraaja does seem to be deliberately avoiding flute and chooses other instruments of wood winds family in its place in most of the songs. So, in an interlude in Kaatrai Konjam, when a flute slowly emerges amidst other instruments, as if travelling a long distance to find its place in the overall scheme of orchestra, I was expecting it to blossom into a full-fledged piece, but Ilaiyaraaja doesn’t yield to the temptation and chops off the flute before it takes a definite shape and overpowers everything else. Emotionally too, this seems to be a moment of nostalgia that was long lost, that seems to have come back to haunt us again, but we are so busy dealing with the things of the present, before we could get entirely engulfed by it, we just forget and move on. Ilaiyaraaja deliberately creates a mystery, leaves it unresolved and keeps us waiting for something to happen that never comes by. I get immensely intrigued by such drama in the orchestral pieces.

There is a natural flow in the song, a sense of coherence and fluidity though the songs break into varied sections of vocal stanzas and instrumental interludes. All of it feels magically glued as one whole entity because of Ilaiyaraaja’s orchestral ideas.

In Saindhu Saindhu, after the first charanam, Yuvan reprises the pallavi and precisely when he is about to end, a Saxophone emerges playing a pleasing phrase and this leads us to the instrumental interlude. The flow is achieved by beginning the beginning of the next section just before the previous section ends, but the fascinating aspect here is that the connecting piece – like the Saxophone piece here – fits the ending of the end of the previous section with amazing musical precision and also naturally reprises in the following instrumental interlude as if it was born and always belonged here. I thought that Saxophone connector piece did its job well and I bid a goodbye, but it is heard as instrumental filler between the vocal lines in the pallavi when it reprises again towards the end of the song. Surprise! Again! The number of ideas that Ilaiyaraaja executes within what on surface sounds like a minimally orchestrated six-minute song is unbelievable.

The first instrumental interlude in Saindhu Saindhu ends with a new guitar riff (quite different from the main guitar motif of the song), and while we think it is part of interlude, Ilaiyaraaja continues to loop the guitar riff as a supporting instrumental layer in the continuing charanam as well. This way he never abruptly cuts off from one section and jumps to other section of the song, always creates a connector that could do its job both as a lead solo in one section and the supporting melody in the other. All of these techniques sound very simple and natural and quite obvious while listening because we got so accustomed to these techniques by listening to Ilaiyaraaja’s music all these years.

In Vaanam mella, Ilaiyaraaja plays a looping supporting melody on Harp underneath the main melody throughout the main stanza, not just for the first time but also whenever it appears in the course of the song, which, I guess is the key ingredient more than anything else that evokes a sense of sweet nostalgia that the boy and girl are singing about in the song. It is the Harp that adds a sense of movement in the song and makes it livelier. In the final reprise, when the song is about to end, Ilaiyaraaja prepares us by suddenly stopping the Harp layer. We sense, though not consciously, that something we were continuously hearing has ceased to be, and we expect a change in the course of the song, which in this case, happens to be the end.

Also, in Saindhu Saindhu, there is a sense of perfect sonic balance and symmetry in the way Ilaiyaraaja opens and closes musical parentheses in the course of the song. The first interlude begins with a soothing string section playing a simple melody (reminds me of that sublime Pournami theme from Guna) without any other instrumental disturbances, after which the piece expands and moves on to other instruments. And we realize that that was the opening of a musical section only when he closes it quite logically at the end of the second interlude where again just the strings section without any other accompaniments play similar melody.

Even the signature guitar riff with which the song begins is reprised at the very end on strings to bring the song to a comforting closure. The whole main stanza Saindhu Saindhu reprises at the end with a totally new orchestral backing instead of its native guitar riff accompaniment, and while I was wondering if the guitar riff was gone forever, there it reprises again on strings section, when the song was almost about to fade out and die, giving a fitting answer to my question and an exhilarating sense of closure to six minutes of musical joy.

Now, what does that symmetry mean to an average listener? A sense of satisfaction that we inherently feel while listening to a piece of orchestral music could also be because of us intuitively experiencing the innateness, the precision and the clarity in the ideas of the creator that comes through the composition. There are no random music fillers or ambiguous musical ideas. When every single layer of instrument in the given piece of orchestral music feel like it is there for a specific definitive purpose, which it is serving with utmost diligence, you can’t help but fall obsessively in love with the music and the composer.

In relation to playing the mainstay melody without ignoring the background instrumentation/orchestration, I personally feel that in certain respects I'm more likely to recall pre-/interludes when playing a particular song in my mind. This is highly apt for the portion of “Kaatrai Konjam’s” second interlude where the saxophone is backed by that enchanting piano riff. When playing “Kaatrai Konjam” in my mind, the first thing to hit me is this piece. More so, I think it can be considered the interlude of the year.

However, with “Saayndhu Saayndhu” it’s a totally different ball game. May be because the song begins on an a cappella note. Melody is everything here and haunts more than the interludes and backing orchestration. On the other hand, “Pengal Yendral” completely belongs to the chorus so much so that the song doesn’t require verses or interludes and the chorus can be looped end on. The vocal and chord progression in the chorus could be moulded into any musical genre.

If I had to pick a number where both melody and orchestration go hand in hand, then no doubt “Sattru Munbu” and “Vaanam Mella” take due credits, although the latter delivers more melodiously than orchestral. The prelude of “Vaanam Mella” is the second most haunting portion of the album, just tailgating the saxophone/piano portion of “Kaatrai Konjam’s” second interlude very tightly.

Whatever the outcome of this album is among the masses? We are indebted to Raaja Saab for squeezing multiple interludes within interludes. A complete rarity in Film OSTs!

After expressing what I feel were the most haunting interludes of the melody, it’s only fair that I express which melody haunts most. By far it has to be the “Charanams” (Verses) of “Yennodu Vaa Vaa”. I see myself humming this and the chorus of “Saayndhu Saayndhu” more and more daily

raghavendran
8th September 2012, 09:28 PM
On Srinivas's bringing in ARR:
Ajaybhaskar: Look at it this way. A few days back when Raghav invoked Rockstar in comparison to NEPV, Maddy immediately posted "RockstarA ada poppA, dont invoke Rockstar in this context" type comment to Raghav. paalootti valartha kiLi pAttu kooda pAdinAru Maddy w.r.t that comment and similar rappreciation of NEPV by Raghav.

it wasnt me...it was ANAND...

Plum
8th September 2012, 09:28 PM
kEttuttEn kEttuttEn :redjump:

I approached it very cynically - assuming you all to be smitten sycophants.(ivuha eppovum nalla review dhAn koduppAha, idhai ellAm namba koodAdhu). Total surrender now - Fultu paisa vasool.

So, this is what HE can do if you give a decent orchestra?!!!

Mudhal MuRai is the absolute winner! Sunidhi Chauhan - indha poNnukuLLa ivLO theRamaiyA? Ofcourse, to me, it seems an extension of a similar song in Om Shanti by Sunidhi again. (Suresh- can you remind which? Lyrics maRandhu pOchu). Awesome!

I also liked Ennodu Vaa Vaa. Idhula enna retrograde amnesia irukku? :huh:? I am reminded of Cheeni Kum hai. Infact, adhula oru interlude varum, with plucking of guitar. andha plucking idhulayum irukku - plus andha interlude-ai konjam stretch paNNinA indha song varum pOlirukku. I think I said it before - Cheeni Kum interludeai echE oru song pOttudalAmnu. Looks like (one great mind and one fool) can think alike :)
What is you guys' problem with this song?

Also, how do you guys date music? andha carbon dating technique dhAan enna?
When I listen to music, i can think of hundred critcising points but "dated" apdingaRA conceptE enakku varradhillai.
Malayalam pAttellAM (Ravindran mash etc) kEkkaRAchE ipdi dhAn dated-nu solluvIngaLA?

I think this whole thing of calling music dated should be made a jailable offence.

Plum
8th September 2012, 09:29 PM
it wasnt me...it was ANAND...


Oh Sorry! But adhu mAmbazham, idhu vAzhai pAzham prachnai ennamO oNnu dhAn :)

Sunil_M88
8th September 2012, 09:30 PM
In an album which is so ‘un-Raja’ like, the first straw for many Raja fans to clutch was ‘Vaanam Mella’. This represented the known Raja. The master of melody and orchestration. I could see many fans warming up to this song first before slowly exploring the other songs.

My sentiments exactly :thumbsup:

Plum
8th September 2012, 09:31 PM
irundhAlum Vaanam mella Deivakozhandhaikku kuduthirukkalAm :(

raghavendran
8th September 2012, 09:33 PM
Oh Sorry! But adhu mAmbazham, idhu vAzhai pAzham prachnai ennamO oNnu dhAn :)selladhu...vera composer oda sayal theriyudhungradhu totally vera case...adha neenga Anand kitta deal pannikinga..:lol2:

kiru
8th September 2012, 09:35 PM
My writeup on 'Vaanam Mella': http://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2012/09/08/vaanam-mella-nee-dhane-en-ponvasantham/
Ha . my favorite.. I lived in Canada for a while and went to a Scottish "fair" (equivalent to our thiruvizha). There were celtic bands playing and it was absolutely groovy and catchy. While on a tour to Dublin, Ireland, I went bar-hopping with my local friend along with my newly-wed wife (more for the music than drinking :- ) ). IR captures the essence of all these and gives it with a soft melodic indian touch and hands it on a platter in this song. What a musician..

Plum
8th September 2012, 09:40 PM
selladhu...vera composer oda sayal theriyudhungradhu totally vera case...adha neenga Anand kitta deal pannikinga..:lol2:


Raghav -andha karuthtyhu paththi nAn oNNumE sollalai. Compare paNdraChe HC fans get irritatednu udhAraNam kodukka dhAn adhai sonnEn - hence mambazham(Teja irritattion on ARR reference by Srinivas) and Vazhaipazham(Maddy annoyance on Rockstar reference by AA)

maRRabadi, andha karuththu paththi enakku oru karuththum illai :)

raghavendran
8th September 2012, 09:45 PM
got it Plum :)

correct me if i am wrong...Sunidhi didnt perform at the function right?..it was Sunitha sarathy who performed Mudha Murai...

Sureshs65
8th September 2012, 09:52 PM
Plum,

Sunidhi sang 'chinna polike' in 'Om Shanthi' but it is a very soft number. Very unlike 'mudal murai'. You may probably be thinking of 'Flying on the Moon' song. That was more aggresive but it was sung by one Priya I think.

brigs
8th September 2012, 09:53 PM
In a particular genre/style I also feel IR has reached a peak. Others, have their own strengths and have more recognition and money. But if we confine the comparison to a particular style (indian melody+wcm orchestral backing) I have not heard better from any current/living or past MD.
That said, the style in NEP predates IR ("indian film music" genre) and all those great MDs of yore have contributed to where IR is now. He is standing on the "shoulder of giants and looking big" now.

(@Plum.. point taken - a bit belatedly :-) )

Completely agree with you, indian melody+wcm orchestral backing - IR is the king & a giant. There is not a doubt.

marnsZet
8th September 2012, 10:07 PM
Since when did writing music become a race :roll:

And who told you so?:roll:

musiukunit
8th September 2012, 10:12 PM
Awesome.. you bring a "architectural/conceptual" analysis to music here. I'd like to do the same but you are doing it much much better (even the earlier post on symphony). I guess I have expressed similar views earlier - that indian music the variations are in the linear time scale and in the WCM the variations are in the parallel/concurrent time scale. Between MSV and IR, I think MSV is more weighted on the indian style and IR is more on the WCM style. I think either consciously to differentiate himself or not IR has gone in this direction. The current album is an exercise where he has written intricate harmony parts.
Again, I can safely say "melody" is the backbone of the music. The "layering" is basically a decoration whether in ICM or WCM. I agree with you that we indians are focussed on the linear melody but even in Europe the "popular" ones have a strong melodic backbone. Works rich in harmony are more "classical" (sponsored by churches and kings).
Keep those posts coming..actually please blog them..so that it does not scroll off with the deluge of posts/party atmosphere we have here now. I will subscribe to it ..Thanks

Yes i thing SenthilV can add more insights here..
I feel that this is a very core and more so in particular in illayaraja's thought process

I may be completely wrong..this is just my interpretation

I mean..many people say that ilaiyaraja rambles some philosophical stuff..but if you carefully listen to what he says particularly from a musical philosophy perspective you get an idea of how he does those immortal songs time and again..He is not blabbering something..What he says means a lot..

I have been watching his videos many times to understand his thought process in the whole creation process..

He is a gifted soul yes..but there should be some conscious process going on you know..

He said in gautams interview about the music should just happen..he tried to articulate that and failed..but its very difficult right..
I used to think why is raja doing songs in 30 minutes..if he can do a song in 30 minutes then if he takes time like other composers the song would be
zillion times better right...
But actually that is the whole trick with raja..he loves spontainity..even his responses to queries..everything..he is so spontanious

He just sets himself up for the situation and doesnt work for the song..just letting it happen..

That way the core layering is taken care. It can be horizontal like in Thumbe vaa
or vertical as in sangeetha megam (the whole strings in the song)

And how does his bring up the core layering...that was beautifully explained in his talk on oru poongavanam..
Director asks for a commercial song...Raja goes for a slow music (thats spontainity)
Picks a raaga ..stays as close as possible to the raaga and gives his interpretations

it is just additional stuff that he has to decorate with..and Job done

There is a process to him but its like a Sidhar's job...

That is why his interviews sometimes irks us..because there is not a lot of rationality there ..its all spontaneous

Sunil_M88
8th September 2012, 10:12 PM
And who told you so?:roll:


What Raja can do in a couple of minutes [composing tunes and writing scores] might take ARR weeks or more.

You did :)

marnsZet
8th September 2012, 10:20 PM
You did :)

It is the well known working style of these two composers and so that is a statement of fact. I see no scope for disagreement here:smile2:

jaiganes
8th September 2012, 10:44 PM
Since when did writing music become a race :roll: I'm still not 100% about the face value notion. What seems so simple at first, ends up being so complex that unearthing becomes endless. However, are we here to enjoy or unearth? Both Raaja Saab and Rahman Ji always have enough scope in their material that enjoying and unearthing are equally satisfying. The bottom line is that, a Gold status of a song is achieved by the layers of a composition and IMO this sometimes contributes more importantly than the mainstay melody. Melody is "anything" and layering is "everything"!

Knowing the sad person I am, I had to go look up in the dictionary :lol:

Anything

any thing whatever : any such thing

Everything

all that exists; all that relates to the subject

Many songs have overlapping melodies e.g. raagams but it is the ambiance and additional instrumentation that gives a song its true UNIQUENESS

Sorry for getting carried away



Indeed, but passing the test of time is the optimus prime (not the one from transformers)

with you 100% what is the point of finishing exam in 1.5 hours? end result how many marks u scored?
When speaking in terms of quality - the debate needs to focus just that. BTW IR is not a building mason
or chithaal who is popular because he gets job done quick. i appreciate him for his quality and flexibility in
yielding his musical prowess to the possibilities the story has to offer period.

jaiganes
8th September 2012, 10:47 PM
Plum,

Sunidhi sang 'chinna polike' in 'Om Shanthi' but it is a very soft number. Very unlike 'mudal murai'. You may probably be thinking of 'Flying on the Moon' song. That was more aggresive but it was sung by one Priya I think.
Oh - Plum!! Sunidhi has sung two more songs under IR - in the much hated "Chal Chalein" that plays in my car every week..

Uff arre - college canteen song (styled more like a fun broadway kinda song - awesome and gets giddier when piyush mishra joins in)
Batlaa dein - Full throated /rock style song - sunidhi is awesome here - she owns the song.

Sunil_M88
8th September 2012, 10:48 PM
No disagreement :) But it wasn't worth point out either. As long as you squeezed ARR in, you got your satisfaction and that's all that matters, rightu? There's no need to continue with this discussion, otherwise brigs will see me as a hypocrite.

V_S
8th September 2012, 10:49 PM
On the other hand, “Pengal Yendral” completely belongs to the chorus so much so that the song doesn’t require verses or interludes and the chorus can be looped end on. The vocal and chord progression in the chorus could be moulded into any musical genre.
Chorus in pengaL Yendral? :confused2::think:

Sunil_M88
8th September 2012, 10:58 PM
V_S sir both Saayndhu Saanyndhu and Pengal Yendral start off without any instrumentation. Hence for me, for some odd reason Yuvan's singing leaves more of an impact.

Chorus =

Pengal endral poiye poithana
Pennin kadhal kannin maithana
Pengal endral poiye poithana
Pennin kadhal kannin maithana

Hearing Yuvan going up that vocal notation ladder is much better than any of the rock numbers he has churned. Ignoring the guitar work is stupidity but I truly feel Yuvan's vocals in chorus overtake every other aspect.

marnsZet
8th September 2012, 11:00 PM
No disagreement :) But it wasn't worth point out either. As long as you squeezed ARR in, you got your satisfaction and that's all that matters, rightu? There's no need to continue with this discussion, otherwise brigs will see me as a hypocrite.

Just to put the record straight it is not me who squuueeezed him in.It is the handy work of one who answers the name Srinivas, the singer! GOD alone knows why he squuueezed him in when talking abt IR and NEPV.

V_S
8th September 2012, 11:03 PM
Chorus =

Pengal endral poiye poithana
Pennin kadhal kannin maithana
Pengal endral poiye poithana
Pennin kadhal kannin maithana

I got your other points. Still I didn't get what do you mean by chorus here. This is a complete solo song by Yuvan, no chorus anywhere.

V_S
8th September 2012, 11:07 PM
Vaanam Mella as shown during the audio launch.

https://t.co/9YQa49Rq
:notworthy: Thanks a lot Aravind. Brings back lot of school memories. KaNNu light'A kalangidichu. Vaanam mella sounds terrific on screen. Superb visuals, can't wait to see the movie. Sam looks gorgeous.

Sunil_M88
8th September 2012, 11:10 PM
Oh sorry for not clearly expressing myself Sir! I was referring to Chorus as a line or group of lines repeated at intervals in a song and not Chorus as in Choir/Multiple singers. :)

Plum
8th September 2012, 11:13 PM
Suresh - ah yes I was thinking of Flying on the moon. adhu Chavan baby illaiyA? :oops:

V_S
8th September 2012, 11:14 PM
Thanks.

San_K
8th September 2012, 11:17 PM
<dig>
Srinivas's explanation on facebook to clarify some IR fans' doubts

Srinivas Doraiswamy (http://www.facebook.com/srinivas.doraiswamy)
Thanks .. And I do understand the sentiments of some people who abused me,because I just have to look back at myself before I started singing professionally.. I was as much an obsessive fan as you people,so I do accept the volley of abuse.. But yesterday is dead and let us begin afresh.. When I was 16 or thereabouts,resident of a tamil locality in trivandrum,when KVN ,Semmangudi and Kishore Kumar used to rule my musical senses, I heard someone in my street play Annakili songs and then it was like Pied Piper... The guitar after the Namma veetu Kalyanam made you go mad.. We had not heard anything like that.. Then came so many songs that made your heart flutter with joy and there was no stopping.. Vizhiyile had strings that came from heaven.. Then came the opening guitar and violins in Sendhoora poove and my obsession with Raja sir reached a peak..especially when he and his orchestra came to trivandrum in the exhibition grounds to perform and Sendhoora poove happened again and there in the distance was the man in white bell bottoms,who had created it.. I was in tears... And the magic continued.. Today if I am a singer,musician or whatever you want to call me,raja sir's music has played a vital role in carving my sensibilities.. There are more songs,interludes,backgrounds I remember.. About that later,if you want me to post.. Whether it is you or me,we are all connected through a vibration called music.. Let us stay positive and forgive people who have hurt and that is both ways..
http://www.facebook.com/groups/IlayaRajafans/permalink/314669805298958/

<dig>

sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
8th September 2012, 11:21 PM
Let us stay positive and forgive people who have hurt and that is both ways..


http://www.facebook.com/groups/IlayaRajafans/permalink/314669805298958/

<dig>

:clap:

V_S
8th September 2012, 11:22 PM
//And I do understand the sentiments of some people who abused me
just curious, yaar sir avara abuse pannathu.

MelHarmony
8th September 2012, 11:24 PM
Completely agree with you, indian melody+wcm orchestral backing - IR is the king & a giant. There is not a doubt.

Also, in the category of non-engineered, ingenuous, written music, IR will win hands down......It is very difficult to emote one's self or others in written music, unless that music is of top class and construction with rich melody...IR is not doing music by playing an instrument and showing to the orchestra. He just thinks, probably emotes internally to himself, then starts writing music like a poet (as NAsser mentioned in Dhoni audio launch function about his experience in Avataram). Nobody today (I dont know about yester years) does in this way as IR does.

I agree that IR has walked on the paths created by some legends...that alone doesnt pay off. To command respect and control over a 2 generations of fans and professional, it requires a lot of talent...According to me IR can be simply called as "Tatshetran" as told in Gita....i.e. one who knows completely about his own body, mind and soul...

MelHarmony
8th September 2012, 11:34 PM
I got your other points. Still I didn't get what do you mean by chorus here. This is a complete solo song by Yuvan, no chorus anywhere.

In fact there is only very little chorus in this entire album. Normally we have seen IR using the Chorus quite often effectively in all his songs..


Meanwhile, I voted for all songs, no other choice for me after 15 rounds of hearing the entire album!

sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
8th September 2012, 11:55 PM
Initial Version of the #NEPV App. Android Version, all 8 songs r there. iOS users kindly check if NEPV app available in Appstore

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.novawe.nep

MelHarmony
9th September 2012, 12:09 AM
Vaanam Mella as shown during the audio launch.

https://t.co/9YQa49Rq

when I heard the song I got a feel that this must be the last song in the film for the reunion of the lovers! but the clip is showing school days!

writeface
9th September 2012, 12:11 AM
No, It is not yet available in iTunes App store.

app_engine
9th September 2012, 12:12 AM
when I heard the song I got a feel that this must be the last song in the film for the reunion of the lovers! but the clip is showing school days!

As per the IR-Gautam TV program on Aug-15, 'saRRu munbu' is the last song...

MelHarmony
9th September 2012, 12:18 AM
As per the IR-Gautam TV program on Aug-15, 'saRRu munbu' is the last song...

thanks app! It would have been a great tune for ending the album in a reunion. it is just my opinion...

writeface
9th September 2012, 12:19 AM
kEttuttEn kEttuttEn :redjump:

I also liked Ennodu Vaa Vaa. Idhula enna retrograde amnesia irukku? :huh:? I am reminded of Cheeni Kum hai. Infact, adhula oru interlude varum, with plucking of guitar. andha plucking idhulayum irukku - plus andha interlude-ai konjam stretch paNNinA indha song varum pOlirukku. I think I said it before - Cheeni Kum interludeai echE oru song pOttudalAmnu. Looks like (one great mind and one fool) can think alike :)



Yes, of course, the 2nd interude does hark back to Cheeni Kum! I was kasakkifying my little mooLai about its similarity to some other song!

Another (mis-guided possibly) suspicion I have: the charanam of kaatrai konjam reminds me of some other IR song (possibly sung by Hariharan)...can't put my viral on it, yet.

Gokul

app_engine
9th September 2012, 12:30 AM
Oh Srikanth Devarajan ...gave up on Raja two decades ago almost.

Objection your honor...
1. He gave a glowing review for TIME on tfmpage
2. Another very appreciative review for Bharathi
3. Wrote extensively on his blog appreciating TbI
4. Even posted on his blog about his discussion on IR/TbI with Sujatha during their meeting

So, avar eppavumE orE mAthiri thAn (means trying to maintain MSV-IR-ARR-fandom, he even wrote glowingly about vaseegarA of minnalE...must be scrutinizing NEPV, it would be interesting to see his total view of this score).

sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
9th September 2012, 12:34 AM
kEttuttEn kEttuttEn :redjump:

Also, how do you guys date music? andha carbon dating technique dhAan enna?
When I listen to music, i can think of hundred critcising points but "dated" apdingaRA conceptE enakku varradhillai.
Malayalam pAttellAM (Ravindran mash etc) kEkkaRAchE ipdi dhAn dated-nu solluvIngaLA?

I think this whole thing of calling music dated should be made a jailable offence.

Flau, Good that NEPV bitten you too! ammiye parakkum aadimaasa kaathu ithu :)

And that dated is about Retro feel EVV song had. Its almost sure that its wantedly done. May be something like the old song in VA where surya simran dances! And also a old vintage synthesizer called Yamaha DX7, sounds which can be generated with that, similar sounds are used in EVV. Thatswhy some ppl comment so. But again its only instrument! the Tune, and every other thing cannot be called Dated!

app_engine
9th September 2012, 12:36 AM
From Sunithi Chauhan's twitter:



vadanika‏@vdu9390@SunidhiChauhan5 (http://www.mayyam.com/SunidhiChauhan5) Mudhal murai is makin me sleepless.. Ilayaraja is the best and ur vocals r pure magic
Retweeted by Sunidhi Chauhan (http://www.mayyam.com/SunidhiChauhan5)


:-)

app_engine
9th September 2012, 12:40 AM
That was a sample ; there are so many tweets like that to her.

Her acknowledgement :



Sunidhi Chauhan‏@SunidhiChauhan5 So many Flattering tweets for "Née Thane En Pon Vasantham":) Yay!! I'm so glad.. Thank you Raja sir :) thank you all :)

app_engine
9th September 2012, 12:56 AM
Spotted Sunithi's retweet of our Sureshji's tweet, embedding the youtube of 'mudhal muRai pArththa gnAbakam' :



Suresh‏@Raaga_Suresh Impressive. Sundihi is impressive in this superb song. Will do a post on this tomorrow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiRh50NN7IY&feature=youtube_gdata_player … (http://t.co/Ta6Tj6eF) (link via @SunidhiChauhan5 (http://www.mayyam.com/SunidhiChauhan5) )
Retweeted by Sunidhi Chauhan (http://www.mayyam.com/SunidhiChauhan5)



Nice to see good artists who are also net-savvy :-)

Gregorysab
9th September 2012, 01:08 AM
And that dated is about Retro feel EVV song had. Its almost sure that its wantedly done. May be something like the old song in VA where surya simran dances! And also a old vintage synthesizer called Yamaha DX7, sounds which can be generated with that, similar sounds are used in EVV. Thatswhy some ppl comment so. But again its only instrument! the Tune, and every other thing cannot be called Dated!

I am just wondering - is this whole dated thing more about the feeling one gets by comparing with other songs in the album?? Probably it is a case of poor articulation compared to shock value in other songs? ! For me, I feel Mudhal Murai & Satru Munba to be extremely modern, from Raaja's offerings context. those songs are very different from what I usually expect from him. From that perspective, I might feel Ennodu Vaa to be dated - no negative label attached to the word here. Or to put it more clearly, I can imagine Ennodu Vaa coming out of Raaja's stable in 80s also, but I cannot imagine other songs like that. If I take a time machine, I can very well imagine a SPB singing Ennodu Vaa with those expressive smiles/laughs (like he does in Eppadi eppadi or Paattu thalaivan). In that imaginative sense, it is song that is slightly dated.. where as.. no matter what time machine I take, it will take me to 2012 only.. if its Mudhal Murai.

app_engine
9th September 2012, 01:16 AM
aakarsh,
In some ways, 'saRRu munbu' creates a mild 'idhu oru nilAkkAlam' (tik^3) feel in me...and the first listen of 'mudhal muRai' gave me the exactly same exhilirating feel I got when I listened to 'chinna maNikkuyilE' (AKK) for the first time.

I'm not getting into any comparisons / genre etc. Just to state a point that IR's 80's are so diverse that one can always find a few samples to map to any new song that comes out :-)

Gregorysab
9th September 2012, 01:23 AM
app_engine

I agree. Not just 80s, but his entire body of work. Infact, different people perceive his music differently. You could connect Satru Munbu to Idhu oru nilaa kaalam feel but I cannot. I feel it is more international (the 1st interlude is kickass awesomeness that can probably be used for the titles of Sherlock Holmes films probably) :-). I always believed that Raaja music is of that calibre that people can do thesis/Ph.D on it. And not just the music, but even fans. A Ph.D can be done on fans' perceptional patterns generated by his music :-D

jaiganes
9th September 2012, 02:59 AM
ivlo seriousaagakkoodaadhu.
free country anybody with heartbeat has an opinion and if we 'pounce' on every opinion,
discussions get muddled into unnecessary debates and degenerate soon into a internet pub brawl.
Lets put some pants on and behave as gentlemen pls.

jaiganes
9th September 2012, 03:04 AM
app_engine

I agree. Not just 80s, but his entire body of work. Infact, different people perceive his music differently. You could connect Satru Munbu to Idhu oru nilaa kaalam feel but I cannot. I feel it is more international (the 1st interlude is kickass awesomeness that can probably be used for the titles of Sherlock Holmes films probably) :-). I always believed that Raaja music is of that calibre that people can do thesis/Ph.D on it. And not just the music, but even fans. A Ph.D can be done on fans' perceptional patterns generated by his music :-D
satru munbu is "Mouni naanu" (Suryakanthi kannada movie - another one forgotten by so many supposedly HCIRFs who are now hurriedly grabbing the keyboard to spout 'feel varaliye raaja') done with more zest and more drama.. Someone said it is 'operatic' - I agree - It truly is. Ramya's voice soars like the flight of the 'special sea gull ' in "Jonathan Seagull" by Richard Bach.

Gregorysab
9th September 2012, 03:45 AM
satru munbu is "Mouni naanu" (Suryakanthi kannada movie - another one forgotten by so many supposedly HCIRFs who are now hurriedly grabbing the keyboard to spout 'feel varaliye raaja') done with more zest and more drama.. Someone said it is 'operatic' - I agree - It truly is. Ramya's voice soars like the flight of the 'special sea gull ' in "Jonathan Seagull" by Richard Bach.

I dont know if anyone else said so, but "operatic" is what I too wrote in my take on the album! The singer Ramya shines perfectly in this song (rather than in Saindhu Saindhu)

kr
9th September 2012, 06:05 AM
I think we should not pay heed to the comments like "dated" "80s" music etc - these are not comments based on any analysis - they are flippant comments not based on any reality. The fact that the songs are universally popular are bothersome to some people and they have to resort to some subjective, unsupportable comments such as those.

writeface
9th September 2012, 06:37 AM
Similar to Sunidhi Chouhan Ramya NSK's twitter page is full of praises for Satru Munbu

http://twitter.com/SingerRamya

writeface
9th September 2012, 06:51 AM
I bought the NEPV soundtrack from iTunes. The sound quality is very good, but however I'd like if anyone compared the sound quality between the CD version and the download version? I wish the high frequencies were recorded a bit higher (at least in the iTunes version, the cymbals don't have the sizzle). I wish Finders Keepers would release this album on Vinyl as well:)
When will CDs be available in the SF bay area?

Gokul

V_S
9th September 2012, 06:57 AM
Ramya is a great find! Scintillating performance by her. I always say you need a Maestro to showcase such singers talent. In that sense I pity Shreya, Sweta, Ramya and all young and talented, but were born in wrong era, that even if they are singing often, how many songs showcases their talent. How many difficult compositions they are singing. How many compositions have deep emotions like this? The music scenario is all shuffled and even great talents like them disappear into thin air.

musiukunit
9th September 2012, 07:46 AM
I think sattru munbu is a climax song...
What Raja does for climax song ..simple he picks us crescendo

And my god how he builds the voice and orchestra for the full blown crescendo end at last...(like the end to Polla vinayen in thiruvasagam)
Its brilliant that he sticks to the grammar so much ..and look at the output.

Ramya has done a career song there

app_engine
9th September 2012, 07:51 AM
'saRRu munbu' also has a mild 'dEva sangeetham neeyallE' feel...

brigs
9th September 2012, 08:04 AM
Also, in the category of non-engineered, ingenuous, written music, IR will win hands down......It is very difficult to emote one's self or others in written music, unless that music is of top class and construction with rich melody...IR is not doing music by playing an instrument and showing to the orchestra. He just thinks, probably emotes internally to himself, then starts writing music like a poet (as NAsser mentioned in Dhoni audio launch function about his experience in Avataram). Nobody today (I dont know about yester years) does in this way as IR does.

I agree that IR has walked on the paths created by some legends...that alone doesnt pay off. To command respect and control over a 2 generations of fans and professional, it requires a lot of talent...According to me IR can be simply called as "Tatshetran" as told in Gita....i.e. one who knows completely about his own body, mind and soul...

Why is the process of creating music more important than the outcome?

And I don't worship - not even the so called God, let alone mere mortals. Just plan enjoyment of music no matter from where, who and how it comes from

brigs
9th September 2012, 08:09 AM
I think we should not pay heed to the comments like "dated" "80s" music etc - these are not comments based on any analysis - they are flippant comments not based on any reality. The fact that the songs are universally popular are bothersome to some people and they have to resort to some subjective, unsupportable comments such as those.

Sure - that's your opinion. If it works best for you, by all means go with that assumption

Bala (Karthik)
9th September 2012, 08:20 AM
a Gold status of a song is achieved by the layers of a composition and IMO this sometimes contributes more importantly than the mainstay melody
Agree. Of course, melody is the core/soul and i do love songs with great melody/little orchestration but then my general preference is towards "the layers" as you put it


Completely agree that it's not a race and the output is what matters.
However, we enjoy first and unearth later. We fall in love first and then wonder about some qualities later. What would have been awesome even if Raaja had taken a month to compose, becomes "awesomer" when you realize he added the layers/harmony/polyphony in his mind, (almost) spontaneously. More than the time, it is the fact that he sees it all in his mind.
[Note: I have a feeling we (IR fans) may be romanticizing/over simplifying this notion but still, we can safely say this is loosely the framework in which he works]
After all, we are not QA specialists, we are (trying to) appreciate and enjoy works of art, right?

Since when did writing music become a race :roll: I'm still not 100% about the face value notion. What seems so simple at first, ends up being so complex that unearthing becomes endless. However, are we here to enjoy or unearth? Both Raaja Saab and Rahman Ji always have enough scope in their material that enjoying and unearthing are equally satisfying. The bottom line is that, a Gold status of a song is achieved by the layers of a composition and IMO this sometimes contributes more importantly than the mainstay melody. Melody is "anything" and layering is "everything"!

Knowing the sad person I am, I had to go look up in the dictionary :lol:

Anything

any thing whatever : any such thing

Everything

all that exists; all that relates to the subject

Many songs have overlapping melodies e.g. raagams but it is the ambiance and additional instrumentation that gives a song its true UNIQUENESS

Sorry for getting carried away



Indeed, but passing the test of time is the optimus prime (not the one from transformers)

venkkiram
9th September 2012, 08:24 AM
சந்தேகம்.. லண்டன் இசைக்குழு இந்தப் பாடல்களுக்கான இசைக்குறிப்புக்களை வாசிப்பதற்கு முன்பே குரல்களின் பதிவு (சென்னையில் முடிக்கப்பட்டு) தயாராக இருந்ததா? இசைக்குழுவினருக்கு குரலோடு பாடல் எப்படி பயணிக்கிறது என்பது தெரிவிக்கப்பட்டதா? இல்லை குரல்கள் வரும் இடத்தில் வேறொரு இசைக்கருவி வாசிக்கப்பட்டதா அவர்களோடு ? குரல்/குரலுக்கு பதிலான இசைக்கருவி எதுவேயில்லாமல் வெறும் இசைக்குறிப்புக்களை மட்டும் வாசித்து முடித்தார்களா? லண்டன் இசைக்கோர்ப்பு முடிந்தபிறகுதான் சென்னையில் குரல் பதிவு செய்யப்பட்டதா?

Bala (Karthik)
9th September 2012, 08:25 AM
Plum
Extremely glad that you loved the album

Bala (Karthik)
9th September 2012, 08:29 AM
And that dated is about Retro feel EVV song had. Its almost sure that its wantedly done. May be something like the old song in VA where surya simran dances! And also a old vintage synthesizer called Yamaha DX7, sounds which can be generated with that, similar sounds are used in EVV. Thatswhy some ppl comment so. But again its only instrument! the Tune, and every other thing cannot be called Dated!
SKV
There's a little problem with this explanation. The synth sound is being heard in Raaja albums till today and it's not like he is using something in his song that he only used ages back. Of course, i don't mean to join the bandwagon of the people who just make fleeting comments like ('80s music with modern orchestration', 'ennodu va va gives an 80's feel', etc)

musiukunit
9th September 2012, 08:29 AM
Why is the process of creating music more important than the outcome?



I think the process of creating music determines the outcome...
The outcome manifests the whole process of creation..

Bala (Karthik)
9th September 2012, 08:36 AM
I am just wondering - is this whole dated thing more about the feeling one gets by comparing with other songs in the album?? Probably it is a case of poor articulation compared to shock value in other songs? ! For me, I feel Mudhal Murai & Satru Munba to be extremely modern, from Raaja's offerings context. those songs are very different from what I usually expect from him. From that perspective, I might feel Ennodu Vaa to be dated - no negative label attached to the word here. Or to put it more clearly, I can imagine Ennodu Vaa coming out of Raaja's stable in 80s also, but I cannot imagine other songs like that. If I take a time machine, I can very well imagine a SPB singing Ennodu Vaa with those expressive smiles/laughs (like he does in Eppadi eppadi or Paattu thalaivan). In that imaginative sense, it is song that is slightly dated.. where as.. no matter what time machine I take, it will take me to 2012 only.. if its Mudhal Murai.
:shock: Completely disagree with this over simplification of 80's Raaja. How can you box 80s into a single easy categorization? If anything, the (early) 80s Raaja was the epitome of extreme experimentation. I'm not sure if you intended it that way, but your post implies that this is the first time Raaja has 'surprised' or done something unexpected

V_S
9th September 2012, 08:36 AM
Why is the process of creating music more important than the outcome?
Because it is art, not science or programming. This is not coding, debugging, bug fixing, unit testing, integration testing and giving a final product. This is also how we differentiate between mortals and immortals, as simple as that. First of all there is no creation here according to Maestro, which I accept. It is already inside us which is brought out by Maestro. As we are listening a composition, we marvel his fascinating mind/brain how he is conceiving such an idea. This interest unintentionally asks us to explore more about his composing skills and style. When we come to know that it is all written by Maestro at that instinct in-front of the director, without he even hearing it by playing. Does it not surprise us? Does it not create a huge regards and respect towards his music? Does it say, it is THE pure and original form of music? Do we not feel proud that we are listening to pure and original music? Does it not take away any compromise with which we are listening to others? Do we not feel embarrassed if we come to know that music is shared among others when composing? That's why it is important to know all the aspects when listening to music (especially nowadays) not just the output to gauge a true composer. Otherwise, we are putting a "composer" tag to everyone, which takes the credibility of the term composer. Maestro is only true composer who depends only on himself when composing, which makes every listener of his music to have a big relief that we are listening only to the music given by him and him only. According to many of us here, this transparency is very very important. And mind you, I am saying all this for a serious music listener who takes music as an integral part of life, culture, tradition, purity and truth with which we also follow in our life. I hope you understand the sentiments.

musiukunit
9th September 2012, 09:07 AM
Ok after lots of hearing wanted to note down some interesting interesting surprises that raja usually has in many of his songs
There are lots of twists and turns in NEPV that makes it a treasure of an album
Just mentioning those interesting tit bits rather than the main portions

Kattrai Konjam

***The violin at 1.07 (en kadhal nalam endru) is a stunner
***In the first interlude at 1.42 the one heavenly guitar(?) note

***The orchestration for charanam is Phd stuff
where the sax actually reiterates the melody and strings bringing the mood initially
Just listen to strings at thalli thalli ponalum..
When it comes to sathi vaitha..the strings are replaced by chords to represent the mood
mind boggling!!!!!!

Pudikala Mame

The rock portion..What guitars for the prelude and interlude...Rocking rock

That kuthu portion is full of surprises
When it comes to tamil adi pattu i guess raja enjoys it like anything..(annatha adurar,karakattakaran etc)
Look how cleverly he uses that jingu cha sound at 5.01 at padikira padam pothathuda
That is Raja-rasani for you..i just laughed at that instance

And that freaked out trumphet at 5.22 is perfect when you think of
represnting youth with boundaryless careless attitude

Hulkster
9th September 2012, 09:18 AM
Plum and bala, regardless of how ARR was brought in and who is trying to stir trouble here, can we just move on to the songs? The songs themselves have so many points to discuss about that all these jujubee matters can be ignored and thrown away.

brigs
9th September 2012, 09:28 AM
I think the process of creating music determines the outcome...
The outcome manifests the whole process of creation..

Seriously, for a movie music? Once the music is created, it enters to the world of digital and plastic.

Over-analyzing kills the fun & that's my opinion.

app_engine
9th September 2012, 09:30 AM
can we just move on to the songs? The songs themselves have so many points to discuss about

Hulkster sir,
We'll be discussing these songs for decades :-)

kavalaiyE padAtheenga :-)

This kind of spice is part & parcel of our 'thiruvizhA' culture :-) Let's enjoy this too :-)

musiukunit
9th September 2012, 09:34 AM
Seriously, for a movie music? Once the music is created, it enters to the world of digital and plastic.

Over-analyzing kills the fun & that's my opinion.

movie music :roll: ???
Once the music is created, it enters to the world of digital and plastic:banghead:

great then.....:(

app_engine
9th September 2012, 09:39 AM
Looking at the voting pattern, there seems to be very few who dislike Sunithi ammaNi number :-)
(There could be more votes if some have recognized that there's no 'sellAtha vOttu' biz).

Well-deserved :thumbsup:

brigs
9th September 2012, 10:07 AM
Because it is art, not science or programming. This is not coding, debugging, bug fixing, unit testing, integration testing and giving a final product. This is also how we differentiate between mortals and immortals, as simple as that. First of all there is no creation here according to Maestro, which I accept. It is already inside us which is brought out by Maestro. As we are listening a composition, we marvel his fascinating mind/brain how he is conceiving such an idea. This interest unintentionally asks us to explore more about his composing skills and style. When we come to know that it is all written by Maestro at that instinct in-front of the director, without he even hearing it by playing. Does it not surprise us? Does it not create a huge regards and respect towards his music? Does it say, it is THE pure and original form of music? Do we not feel proud that we are listening to pure and original music? Does it not take away any compromise with which we are listening to others? Do we not feel embarrassed if we come to know that music is shared among others when composing? That's why it is important to know all the aspects when listening to music (especially nowadays) not just the output to gauge a true composer. Otherwise, we are putting a "composer" tag to everyone, which takes the credibility of the term composer. Maestro is only true composer who depends only on himself when composing, which makes every listener of his music to have a big relief that we are listening only to the music given by him and him only. According to many of us here, this transparency is very very important. And mind you, I am saying all this for a serious music listener who takes music as an integral part of life, culture, tradition, purity and truth with which we also follow in our life. I hope you understand the sentiments.

V_S,
Music being a work of art - it shouldn't be discouraged by anything at all. Movie Avatar or Titanic uses computer graphics/tricks/gimmicks - do we have to get embarrassed because of it? Of course, theatrical drama is raw form just like music orchestration - but, Avatar and Titanic wouldn't be possible. There is creativity in each and every thing. Let's enjoy everything. One is not better than the other.
Why should the listener be embarrassed of anything?

I purposefully avoided talking about your "composer" remark - which IR himself mentioned. That'll stir unnecessary debate.

Hulkster
9th September 2012, 10:10 AM
I love all 8 songs. But if i were to name a favourite, it would probably be Kaatrai Konjam. How about instead of choosing favourite song, we create another poll for best prelude/interlude in the soundtrack? Heck, we can even create a poll for most innovative use of genre, song with the best orchestration and it will never end lol.

Anybody thinks that pudikkala maamu's first interlude is actually a tribute to guitar specialists like jimi hendrix by thalaivar? I have a funny feeling that thalaivar is actually a fan of jimi hendrix and pink floyd.

raghavendran
9th September 2012, 10:11 AM
looks like there is no single favourite in this album..all songs have equal share of fans..main criteria for an album to stand out for decades..

V_S
9th September 2012, 10:32 AM
You are mixing things here. We are only talking about music here. If you want to bring movie, this is not the thread, we have to discuss separately about it. Music is the only entity which takes you to next level, which neither poetry, drama, cinema, even dance, nothing can do that. You can only appreciate them as a passive audience, but you cannot imbibe in you, just like music does as it carries you till your last breath. That is why I am insisting that be pure and organic. It is A must. That's why we even call it as a gift for composers. If it is a made talent, there will be human elements in it, your emotions in it, your cleverness will be there. Maestro's music is that pure that you don't see any of his emotions in it. We can feel that, as we know how it happened. If it has human elements to it, that takes the beauty out of it. We don't see the music there, only the music director and how it was created. Here I only see music, nothing else. Music is beyond all the human elements. It is not that simple as you say, atleast not for me. If you are listening music just for fun, and concluding only based on the output, it is better we don't talk further about it. For me and most here, music is not fun.

'Let's enjoy everything' is a rude word here. Again it does not apply to true music fans. Being a Maestro fan and being exposed to his music for the 35 years, I can never do that, cause I will only be fooling Maestro and his music and in turn myself. To be honest, if you like the way you listen, please do, but please don't spoil the sentiments here, as Maestro's music is beyond anything and everything.

marnsZet
9th September 2012, 10:42 AM
You are mixing things here. We are only talking about music here. If you want to bring movie, this is not the thread, we have to discuss separately about it. Music is the only entity which takes you to next level, which neither poetry, drama, cinema, even dance, nothing can do that. You can only appreciate them as a passive audience, but you cannot imbibe in you, just like music does as it carries you till your last breath. That is why I am insisting that be pure and organic. It is A must. That's why we even call it as a gift for composers. If it is a made talent, there will be human elements in it, your emotions in it, your cleverness will be there. Maestro's music is that pure that you don't see any of his emotions in it. We can feel that, as we know how it happened. If it has human elements to it, that takes the beauty out of it. We don't see the music there, only the music director and how it was created. Here I only see music, nothing else. Music is beyond all the human elements. It is not that simple as you say, atleast not for me. If you are listening music just for fun, and concluding only based on the output, it is better we don't talk further about it. For me and most here, music is not fun.

'Let's enjoy everything' is a rude word here. Again it does not apply to true music fans. Being a Maestro fan and being exposed to his music for the 35 years, I can never do that, cause I will only be fooling Maestro and his music and in turn myself. To be honest, if you like the way you listen, please do, but please don't spoil the sentiments here, as Maestro's music is beyond anything and everything.
V.S. You have just aired the feelings of each and every fan of Maestro. Thank you sir!

Hulkster
9th September 2012, 10:45 AM
Mr Brigs, If you just don't like the idea of fans dissecting the music like they are from heaven, then don't visit the forum and comment. I am pretty sure you are mature enough to realize this. Or are you here with another purpose?

Regardless of the topic, fans do love to analyse stuff from their idols in a detail which they prefer. This holds true for a fan of movie/sports/music/etc celebrity. If you really want your voice to be heard, create a petition and put your description as "People should not over analyze anything created by humans and treat it as what it is" and get about 1 billion people to sign it. Problem solved.

sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
9th September 2012, 10:53 AM
சந்தேகம்.. லண்டன் இசைக்குழு இந்தப் பாடல்களுக்கான இசைக்குறிப்புக்களை வாசிப்பதற்கு முன்பே குரல்களின் பதிவு (சென்னையில் முடிக்கப்பட்டு) தயாராக இருந்ததா? இசைக்குழுவினருக்கு குரலோடு பாடல் எப்படி பயணிக்கிறது என்பது தெரிவிக்கப்பட்டதா? இல்லை குரல்கள் வரும் இடத்தில் வேறொரு இசைக்கருவி வாசிக்கப்பட்டதா அவர்களோடு ? குரல்/குரலுக்கு பதிலான இசைக்கருவி எதுவேயில்லாமல் வெறும் இசைக்குறிப்புக்களை மட்டும் வாசித்து முடித்தார்களா? லண்டன் இசைக்கோர்ப்பு முடிந்தபிறகுதான் சென்னையில் குரல் பதிவு செய்யப்பட்டதா?

Vocals recorded in Mumbai and then they are taken to London.

sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
9th September 2012, 10:57 AM
SKV
There's a little problem with this explanation. The synth sound is being heard in Raaja albums till today and it's not like he is using something in his song that he only used ages back. Of course, i don't mean to join the bandwagon of the people who just make fleeting comments like ('80s music with modern orchestration', 'ennodu va va gives an 80's feel', etc)

Bala, I actually am not very sure about this whole 'sounding dated' et all. It started with then Srinivas said that in his facebook page and a person mentioned thus

http://www.facebook.com/srinivas.doraiswamy/posts/4145857778747?comment_id=4305916&offset=0&total_comments=44


Srikanth Devarajan (http://www.facebook.com/SrikanthDevarajan) Every song is a delight and done with a freshness and all live..no synth - ennodu vaa vaa the entire second bgm, 2nd charanam is on keyboard synths (old dx7 sounds). For some reason there no single strings or wind part found in previous charanam. Telugu version of Saayndhu Saayndhu sung by Shaan is about a million lightyears better than the Tamil version.
Friday at 6:16pm

Others, Is this person already known to hubbers? Is this the person some where discussing here?!?

musiukunit
9th September 2012, 11:05 AM
If you are listening music just for fun, and concluding only based on the output, it is better we don't talk further about it. For me and most here, music is not fun.
I think that is why brigs is saying what he is..its just music/arts as fun..its not fun..atleast not when it is namma raja



'Let's enjoy everything' is a rude word here. Again it does not apply to true music fans. Being a Maestro fan and being exposed to his music for the 35 years, I can never do that, cause I will only be fooling Maestro and his music and in turn myself.

Absolutely golden...when everybody says enjoy everything..it is not possible..we can enjoy but its just momentary...
However when we enjoy something that is close to our heart like raja there is nothing like it...
That is why there is unheard enjoyment in internet about NEPV...

senthilv.com
9th September 2012, 11:18 AM
Bala, I actually am not very sure about this whole 'sounding dated' et all. It started with then Srinivas said that in his facebook page and a person mentioned thus

http://www.facebook.com/srinivas.doraiswamy/posts/4145857778747?comment_id=4305916&offset=0&total_comments=44



Others, Is this person already known to hubbers? Is this the person some where discussing here?!?

Yes. He is an old time hubber. He left the forum a long while ago. If I'm right, it was because of difference in arguments pertaining to Raja music. (Other old time hubbers may know better) Personally I learned a lot from his posts.

musiukunit
9th September 2012, 11:31 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDd5BAVJkAE&feature=player_embedded#!

Posted in raja fans..brilliant

The first part talks about the difference between improvisation (various possibilities) and raja's composition

MelHarmony
9th September 2012, 11:46 AM
V.S. You have just aired the feelings of each and every fan of Maestro. Thank you sir!

I too fully agree...if we have to enjoy every type of music we wont be spending time in this blog...IR has elevated the souls to next level and is calling all of us to come to the other side of the river...if we are staying on the wrong side and listening, crap we will be the losers...
The process of musical creation is equally important because it decides the richness, originality of creation, harmony content by not spoiling one's soul, etc., Similarly there are several factors in common for music in a general sense. Let us not discuss that here. We all have come here because of the musical outcome coming out of a specialized process, mastered only by IR in this generation...

MelHarmony
9th September 2012, 12:08 PM
Vocals recorded in Mumbai and then they are taken to London.

I remember reading that IR had used a click track (with the help from KR) in TiS because instrumental pieces were recorded first with the help of some informal singing by IR (at Budapest) during the recoding session (You can see the Making of the TiS video in Youtube, showing IR singing several pieces together with the orchestra). Then he came to Chennai and recorded the Voice tracks separately and it was mixed in US.

Similarly for NEPV I believe a click track might have been used for the final vocal recording...Using a click track for vocal recording is very difficult if the song is of oratorio form (TiS) because it doesnt follow a specific beat pattern. Thats why we can identify some places in TiS at which IR missing the beat (Sivapuranam, Poovar senni mannan, Pooyeru konum). But in NEPV I believe it would have been much easier since all the songs are having a definitive rythmic pattern...

writeface
9th September 2012, 12:16 PM
Yes. He is an old time hubber. He left the forum a long while ago. If I'm right, it was because of difference in arguments pertaining to Raja music. (Other old time hubbers may know better) Personally I learned a lot from his posts.
SrikanthD used to participate in tfmpage before it
became the hub. He is a musician too.
Gokul

Gregorysab
9th September 2012, 12:22 PM
:shock: Completely disagree with this over simplification of 80's Raaja. How can you box 80s into a single easy categorization? If anything, the (early) 80s Raaja was the epitome of extreme experimentation. I'm not sure if you intended it that way, but your post implies that this is the first time Raaja has 'surprised' or done something unexpected

I am not at all over-simplifying the 80s :-) All i am saying is that the 'mood', that 1st interlude, and the whole pallavi of Ennodu Vaa has the "Light songs of Ilaiyaraaja in 80s" feel... you know... the stuff that goes into cds with titles like "Romantic Hits of Raaja" etc :-D, along with songs like "Ilaya nila" etc.. But Satru Munbu and Mudhal Murai sound way too contemporary (and ahead) to me. I dont mean to say that they are more complex than 80s.but their treatment seems different. I lean more towards World Music in them.

If there is anything common between 80s and this album - it is actually the aggression and energy in Raaja to carve all the 8 songs into gems. Yes, there were albums in 90s/post 2000s in which all the songs were good. Kaalaapani, Guru, Uliyin Osai etc., but in the genre of Urban romance, its been very long time I think.

San_K
9th September 2012, 01:13 PM
a very different results on same kind of poll

http://www.facebook.com/questions/521873451171978/

Plum
9th September 2012, 03:06 PM
aakarsh - I still dont get the concept of "Dated".
For example, take "Mudhal MuRai". On the face of it, a full throated, full vigour, Sunidhi vehicle(Bala (K) - idhula edhavadhu Rock, hevy metal irukkA?) is new and unexpected from Raja

But step back a bit.
Go to 2005-06.
Kasthoorimaan.

"Ennai KEtkum kELvi" is a very similar song, except that he made half-throated Tippu sing it - hence the effect didnt impact fully. Down to the violin solo structure in the first interlude.

There is a method to his madness - contineesA experiment paNNikittE irukKAr. And when he gets a chance like this, you se the result of that experimentation

People are saying thi albumla experiment - no baby, experiment alreayd paNNiyAchu. This is the modified output based on refining afer the experiments

P.S: idhai vechukittu sila pEru "Mudhal muRai" is rehash of "ennai ketkum" apdinnu twittAma irundha Sari :lol:

San_K
9th September 2012, 03:17 PM
What I found funny is, the outdated/dated pugazh milliblog karthik immensely liked Ennodu Vaa Vaa whereas Singer srinivas called it is dated

Plum
9th September 2012, 03:27 PM
It is a long time since I have been inclined towards appreciating songs without "emotional context". As in, stronger emotions than "Figure luvs". At some point I think, I became IR's most apt fan - in that, he moved on from "pop for the sake of pop" to "film music within context of the movie situation" but a lot of us held on to the 80s ideals of pop heaven. After a long, long time, I have been able to appreciate a pop song for its own sake. (SRR, Mayilu etc - atleast the songs I appreciated had deep emotional context)

This is why I was skeptical about me liking this album - GVM being GVM, at the best the emotions would be something not very deep(think Vaaranam Aayiram - as blah as blah can be emotional context) but the man comes in and blows all reservations off and reconnects me to "music for music's sake".

Even VTV, I liked songs only after watching the movie as the ones I liked had deeper context than I could suss from audio listening(although MannippAya seemed a tad overodne for Simbar's puppy love)

In this album, saRRu munbu is the one that seems to have context emotionally. Others are nothing out of the ordinary in terms of emotional context
Ofcourse, when we watch the movie, we might see the deeper emotional context of other songs - but seeing Jeeva and Samantha's faces, I doubt it.

(Ofcourse, from what GVM said, he had to invent a deeper situation for Sarru munbu post-facto. )

Lobot
9th September 2012, 03:44 PM
Hi Guys,
I been following TFM page (raja music) for long time. Never had an interest to write on this blog other than reading some excellent analysis/reviews on raja's music.

Am just writing now to say "NEPV" album rocks!Simply phrasing its a WILD journey! My australian mates (20-40) love all the soundtracks, esp "ennodu vaa vaa" and "pendal endral".
Raja raja thaan . Lucky am alive to witness this genius music.

Thank you all for your excellent reviews and technical insight of his complex music!

Ari

Sureshs65
9th September 2012, 04:24 PM
aravind,

Welcome and thanks for the feedback. I guess all of us are loving this album. I keep hearing it in my music system, computer, mp3 player, car, phone. So it has only been NEPV for the past few days. Even Raja's songs can't displace this !!!

Sunil_M88
9th September 2012, 05:38 PM
We heard "Saayndhu Saayndhu" on the program aired on 15th Aug wher Isaignani gave a completely differently feel supported by his harmonium. It almost sounds like a keerthanam. It would great to hear all compositions in their scratch form, with IR humming away :musicsmile:

Sunil_M88
9th September 2012, 05:52 PM
We heard "Saayndhu Saayndhu" on the program aired on 15th Aug wher Isaignani gave a completely differently feel supported by his harmonium. It almost sounds like a keerthanam. It would great to hear all compositions in their scratch form, with IR humming away :musicsmile:

I would really want to hear Mudhal Murai/Pengal Yendral first. Can't imagine how GVM narrated the situation to Raaja Saab in order for him to conjure up these rebelliously metal compositions.

Sunil_M88
9th September 2012, 06:37 PM
I wonder why a saxophone/midi/hell, I don't know and give up instrument has been used in the first interlude of Pengal Yendral. There's hardly any rock numbers with this instrument or am I missing the point. Extraneous elements are usually the most distinctive and here it works in favour of the song. Saxophones can be manipulated to express any desired emotion. The emotion being conveyed here is sadness and this instrument exactly does that. In this song, it sounds very piercing akin to crying.

Sunil_M88
9th September 2012, 06:42 PM
Dig//

It would be great if the maestro released an all out Celtic album. I'm going to start compiling a list of numbers by IR with a Celtic aura and its obvious that I need assistance as I'm a rookie here. We can start another thread if you want :)

thumburu
9th September 2012, 07:22 PM
Objection your honor...
1. He gave a glowing review for TIME on tfmpage
2. Another very appreciative review for Bharathi
3. Wrote extensively on his blog appreciating TbI
4. Even posted on his blog about his discussion on IR/TbI with Sujatha during their meeting

So, avar eppavumE orE mAthiri thAn (means trying to maintain MSV-IR-ARR-fandom, he even wrote glowingly about vaseegarA of minnalE...must be scrutinizing NEPV, it would be interesting to see his total view of this score).

To add to these, way back dhool.com start up days, Srikanth showered his accolades for "poo poothadhu of Mumbai express and even went to the blasphemous extent of rating Raja's jazz usage in MX above Rahman's in Iruvar

kr
9th September 2012, 07:30 PM
However, I do remember that in the early mid-90s I felt he had an agenda against IR - he would post negatively immediately after every IR album as if to discourage anyone else listening to the songs and would undermine other points of view. His opinions would seem to depict that he and Rehman had superior knowledge of music compared to IR. I used to be a constant contibutor during those days and remember having many head to head arguments with him

MelHarmony
9th September 2012, 08:16 PM
Does anyone know if the making of NEPV will be released as DVD, or if the BGM alone is going to be released by GVM?

app_engine
9th September 2012, 08:23 PM
Looks like 'chinnappayal' has become a darling of all the siRu idhazhkaL :lol2:

He reviewed NEPV music in his blog and 'uyirmai' reproduced it.

Then keetRu did the same.

Now it's the turn of thiNNai (http://puthu.thinnai.com/?p=14652) to do the same :-)

Sureshs65
9th September 2012, 08:26 PM
My writeup on 'ennodu vaa vaa': http://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2012/09/09/ennodu-vaa-vaa-nee-dhane-en-ponvasantham/

app_engine
9th September 2012, 08:44 PM
My writeup on 'ennodu vaa vaa': http://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2012/09/09/ennodu-vaa-vaa-nee-dhane-en-ponvasantham/

Sweet article, Sureshji!

I remember you posting the 'retro' thingy right when the teaser got posted in youtube. So, you're the pioneer on the net to start this 'retro' thingy :-)

(pAvam sambandhamE illAma indha Singer Srini vandhu adhukku adi vAnguRaru :lol2:)

app_engine
9th September 2012, 09:15 PM
mudhal muRai Telugu version (by Sunithi again)...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5OTKTnaDdo&feature=plcp

Sureshs65
9th September 2012, 09:30 PM
Sweet article, Sureshji!

I remember you posting the 'retro' thingy right when the teaser got posted in youtube. So, you're the pioneer on the net to start this 'retro' thingy :-)

(pAvam sambandhamE illAma indha Singer Srini vandhu adhukku adi vAnguRaru :lol2:)

Ha Ha Ha. So you are saying I should be the one who should be getting the brickbats :D

Gregorysab
9th September 2012, 09:43 PM
aakarsh - I still dont get the concept of "Dated".
For example, take "Mudhal MuRai". On the face of it, a full throated, full vigour, Sunidhi vehicle(Bala (K) - idhula edhavadhu Rock, hevy metal irukkA?) is new and unexpected from Raja

But step back a bit.
Go to 2005-06.
Kasthoorimaan.

"Ennai KEtkum kELvi" is a very similar song, except that he made half-throated Tippu sing it - hence the effect didnt impact fully. Down to the violin solo structure in the first interlude.

There is a method to his madness - contineesA experiment paNNikittE irukKAr. And when he gets a chance like this, you se the result of that experimentation

People are saying thi albumla experiment - no baby, experiment alreayd paNNiyAchu. This is the modified output based on refining afer the experiments

P.S: idhai vechukittu sila pEru "Mudhal muRai" is rehash of "ennai ketkum" apdinnu twittAma irundha Sari :lol:

Plum,

if I used the word "dated" here, i certainly did not mean it in negative sense but just meant that "the song makes us feel retro because the tune's playfulness is reminiscent of Raaja-SPB romantic songs in 80s".
I now have to revisit Kasthoorimaan. The only song that really registered (in a big way) in my mind when I heard Kasthoorimaan was "Nethivaraku" sung by Sujatha. A lovely light-mood Pahadi. Have to listen to this song you have referenced now.

PS: I dont understand tamil; somehow decoded your post but :-) thanks to lot of english.

Plum
9th September 2012, 10:07 PM
Aakarsh,. sorry about the tamil so let me indulge you now (at the cost of others except suresh)

nEnu aduguthunnadhi evitantE:

"Dated" ani chebuthE EdhO peddha kuRRalA annatam lEdhu nEnu. nEnu anEdhi evitantE, ee "dated" anE feel mee andhariki elA kadhuluthnnadhani. udhArAnikki theeskuNTE, 90s-lo Malayalamlo Ravindran mash, Johnson mash andharu chEsina musicni analyse chEsthE, vaatini Dated aNTArA? vaatini vinnappudu eppudu A dated anE angle nAkku anupincha lEdhu. kAni, oka ragangA meeru andharu dated ani cheputhindhi evitani nenu guess chEsEdhi correct aithE, vaatini kooda meer andharu dated antAru? CorrectnA?

asalu music vintunappudu I angleLo choodadam mee andhariki elA sAguthunnadhani nA prashnam

dhAniki oka ragangA ardhamayEthattu samAdhAnam ichAru - kAni inkA nAkku poorthigA arthamkAvatam lEdhu.

maLLI idhE prashnam vERE vidhangA aduguthAnu. prasthAniki salavu theeskuntunAnu. dhanyavAdhAlu!

Plum
9th September 2012, 10:11 PM
And vinandi vinandi, thappakonda KasthoorimAn vinandi. chAlA manchi pAttalu unnAyi. Enani kEtkum dheenikki (mudhal murai) precursor aithE, kEkkalaiyO kEkkalaiyO ani oka kOlAttA stylelo melody koodA undhi.
kAni Tippu kastha dhaarananga padAdu. adhE O minus point. ainA oka sAri vinAndi. Regret cheyyaru

kid-glove
9th September 2012, 10:13 PM
Are they playing 80's/early 90's school students?

Sureshs65
9th September 2012, 10:32 PM
Are they playing 80's/early 90's school students?

avvalavu oldA irukka maataangannu nenaikkaren :lol:

Sureshs65
9th September 2012, 10:34 PM
Are they playing 80's/early 90's school students?

avvalavu oldA irukka maataangannu nenaikkaren :lol:

kid-glove
9th September 2012, 10:39 PM
Could be. But you do know that Surya played a late 80's student in VA?

kid-glove
9th September 2012, 10:51 PM
In saying that, I mean I wouldn't be surprised to see Jeeva and Samantha standing in for real life Gautham and his early love interest. Isn't he a 80's boy?

Also, one could be forgiven for saying it has that 'feel'. It's quite possible that GM asked Raaja to get that feel, but Raaja does have a lot of fun here, which makes it seem quite ageless on subsequent listening.

But few new ids seem to show up mysteriously to plainly undermine/dismiss it as dated.

Plum
9th September 2012, 10:51 PM
The "Tharunam Tharunam" sudden in-flush (overfilling the sandham, as someone pointed out, and someone wondered if it was poor lyric writing in action) in Vaanam mella:

Non-Family_Friendly Message follows - pls read at discretion. White fontla pOduREn. yArum thittAdhIngOv


"Tharunam Tharunam" creates a feeling as if someone is plucking a guitar, if you see what I mean.

Sunil_M88
9th September 2012, 11:12 PM
:notworthy: Thanks a lot Aravind. Brings back lot of school memories. KaNNu light'A kalangidichu. Vaanam mella sounds terrific on screen. Superb visuals, can't wait to see the movie. Sam looks gorgeous.

The Choir portion in the prelude definitely revives many school memories and vividly paints my primary school's playground in my mind. I expressed this straight away when I heard this number. http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?9846-Neethane-En-Ponvasantham-Yeto-Vellipoyindhi-Manasu-Assi-Nabbe-Poorey-Sau&p=943870&viewfull=1#post943870

So maybe GVM had some intention behind keeping it as BGM in this setting. However, this song equally demands a lavish picturisation otherwise I feel it may hinder the approach of this song compared to the rest of the numbers after the movie's release. Any clips or idea of how other songs have been shot? We have come to know EVV is shot on the bus (?)

SVN
10th September 2012, 12:08 AM
GVM has overlaid the song with dialogues (looking at the Vaanam Mella song), thereby taking away the amazing interludes.. Why can't they pause.. and then play :) I hope the rest of the songs are not given the same treatment!

geno
10th September 2012, 12:49 AM
Atlast soaking up in the Lost Paradise of Raja's divine rhythms and tunes!.

I need to point out one thing (I would still say that Raja is the greatest of tamil kalaingnars)..Raja has neglected the importance of lyrics, poetic words and such, for the songs in this album. That is one standing out jarring note in this..

"irubathu nilavukaL nagam engum oLi vidum...hey hey..iLamaiyin kanavukaL vizhiyOram sudar vidum......" - the lyrics enhanced and beautified Raja's music earlier...he needs to add that Magic again.

You dont need a vairamuthu to do that...there are enough great lyricists around..the problem seems to be - Raja's conviction to avoid poetic lyrics.

SVN
10th September 2012, 01:00 AM
Ramya NSK's short interview in which she speaks about her experience working with IR on NEPV. Apparently, including the two songs from this album, she has recorded 9 songs with him. Interesting!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4tJnOUZc5g&feature=relmfu

venkkiram
10th September 2012, 01:17 AM
+1 for Geno point.

Gregorysab
10th September 2012, 02:19 AM
Aakarsh,. sorry about the tamil so let me indulge you now (at the cost of others except suresh)

nEnu aduguthunnadhi evitantE:

"Dated" ani chebuthE EdhO peddha kuRRalA annatam lEdhu nEnu. nEnu anEdhi evitantE, ee "dated" anE feel mee andhariki elA kadhuluthnnadhani. udhArAnikki theeskuNTE, 90s-lo Malayalamlo Ravindran mash, Johnson mash andharu chEsina musicni analyse chEsthE, vaatini Dated aNTArA? vaatini vinnappudu eppudu A dated anE angle nAkku anupincha lEdhu. kAni, oka ragangA meeru andharu dated ani cheputhindhi evitani nenu guess chEsEdhi correct aithE, vaatini kooda meer andharu dated antAru? CorrectnA?

asalu music vintunappudu I angleLo choodadam mee andhariki elA sAguthunnadhani nA prashnam

dhAniki oka ragangA ardhamayEthattu samAdhAnam ichAru - kAni inkA nAkku poorthigA arthamkAvatam lEdhu.

maLLI idhE prashnam vERE vidhangA aduguthAnu. prasthAniki salavu theeskuntunAnu. dhanyavAdhAlu!


Telugu chinchaaru :-D

Lets ignore the word "dated" for a moment because when I am using it, I am intending to map the song to a specific time-line in Raaja's career (which is 80s in this case). What I am trying to say is - the style of tune and the treatment reminds of songs in a certain timeline.
For example: When Kaatre Konjam first came in soundcloud link, I felt it's melody had shades of "Unnai Thedi" (hariharan sang it, which film?) married to the melody in KJY-Raaja-Balu Mahendra songs. Now if i listen to Unnai Thedi today, I really feel that it has same melodic quality (melodic pinnacle) as some of the best Raaja songs in 80s. Just that when Unnai Thedi came in 2000, the groovy backgrounds made me feel its a fantastic fusion (which it is) while back then, my mind couldnt map it in "hey, the melody of this song is so golden era of raaja kind". I enjoyed that song in 2000, in a different perspective and today, I enjoy it with a different perspective. This harking back - in terms of the "kind of melody" - is where this operative word "dated" coming up for most people, although I hate to use this word because of negative connotations. which is why I conveniently say "makes me go retro".

Another example:
Vaanam Mele: The generic syntax of this song makes me feel that I can rank this song among "Oli Tharum", "Yaarum Thodaatha". The philosophy of Raaja in all these songs, has been more or less same (that all are sung by Raaja-female singer further makes us feel so). The extensive string orchestra work, a repetitive melodic phrase that stamps onto hummability quotient, gentle feel melody etc. I might not be using the word "dated" here, because these songs are recent... but if I have to indicate the "kind of song" that Vaanam mele is.. I will have to point people to these songs, harking back to a specific time-period (in this case, its recent, which thankfully eliminates the specific word dated). That said, I am not undermining the beauty of Vaanam mele. As I have expressed before, I personally lean more towards Mudhal Murai, Satru Munbu, Kaatre Konjam and Pengal endral because they are giving me a totally new experience while Vaanam mele is giving me a familiar experience.

app_engine
10th September 2012, 03:30 AM
Looks like decent response in Telugu Desam too (http://kaburullu.blogspot.com/2012/09/maestro-is-back-for-youths-of-2012.html)



After struggling for a decade to give peppy numbers to Telugu audience with
movies like, Anumanaspadam, Om Shanti, Mallepuvvu and Gaayam 2, Maestro scored
hits with a couple of songs, but youths never connected to them. Now he is back
with a bang and his latest 'Yeto Vellipoyindi Manasu' is a chartbuster with
grooving numbers and heart grinding extravaganzas. The Nani-Samantha starrer
under Gautham Menon's direction will be a treat for music lovers for now, as
Ilayaraja is at his best.

Critics are saying that Ilayaraja has finally connected to the hearts of 2012 youths and
there seems no stopping for him. While the whole Indian musicians are on one
side, Maestro is on other side. Get ready to get mesmerized by his music guys!

sivasub
10th September 2012, 06:55 AM
Looks like IR used the services of this production unit.. and guess what, it's their first venture.

http://www.angloindianmusic.com/index.htm

http://www.angloindianmusic.com/TESTIMONIALS(2692448).htm

writeface
10th September 2012, 10:07 AM
Looks like IR used the services of this production unit.. and guess what, it's their first venture.

http://www.angloindianmusic.com/index.htm

http://www.angloindianmusic.com/TESTIMONIALS(2692448).htm

Great, thanks for sharing this. As IR says I hope they work with him again and again.

baroque
10th September 2012, 10:26 AM
yeah..thanks for sharing! warm smiles from both!:ty:

musiukunit
10th September 2012, 10:37 AM
Another example:
Vaanam Mele: The generic syntax of this song makes me feel that I can rank this song among "Oli Tharum", "Yaarum Thodaatha". The philosophy of Raaja in all these songs, has been more or less same (that all are sung by Raaja-female singer further makes us feel so). The extensive string orchestra work, a repetitive melodic phrase that stamps onto hummability quotient, gentle feel melody etc. I might not be using the word "dated" here, because these songs are recent... but if I have to indicate the "kind of song" that Vaanam mele is.. I will have to point people to these songs, harking back to a specific time-period (in this case, its recent, which thankfully eliminates the specific word dated). That said, I am not undermining the beauty of Vaanam mele. As I have expressed before, I personally lean more towards Mudhal Murai, Satru Munbu, Kaatre Konjam and Pengal endral because they are giving me a totally new experience while Vaanam mele is giving me a familiar experience.

Understand where you are coming from..but to me vaanam mella except for the vocals is classic WCM in the whole of NEPV . Especially the interludes, Oboe usage is more and more of Bach style

Rangarajan nambi
10th September 2012, 11:28 AM
For those who have some classical music int., Katrai konjam is a lovely melody set to Sankarabaranam ! R2 , G3 , M1 and D2 are dominant throughout the song but the charanam ends at D1 which is unShankarabaranamish !! That’s why the song is so melodious and attracts everyone on first hearing itself .IR is a mysterious guy when it comes to Carnatic classical ! However, I reserve my comments on Hindustani prowess.

Gregorysab
10th September 2012, 04:08 PM
And vinandi vinandi, thappakonda KasthoorimAn vinandi. chAlA manchi pAttalu unnAyi. Enani kEtkum dheenikki (mudhal murai) precursor aithE, kEkkalaiyO kEkkalaiyO ani oka kOlAttA stylelo melody koodA undhi.
kAni Tippu kastha dhaarananga padAdu. adhE O minus point. ainA oka sAri vinAndi. Regret cheyyaru

/Digression to Kasthoorimaan

You are right. Ennai Ketkum is sort of precursor to Mudhal Murai, except that the synth percussions level is a tad higher thus resulting in a sort of higher degree of "Pop"-isation of the song, compared to Mudhal Murai. And yes, why Tippu!!!! Royally screws the feel in the composition! Pch!:idontgetit: This song is set in Simhendramadhyamam! why did Raaja give this beautiful composition to Tippu! Dear Raaja, why such indiscreet attitude towards the vocals in this otherwise brilliant composition?

kekalayo is also good! sounds like Suddha Dhanyasi to me! Tippu sounds better in this song than in Ennai Ketkum!

//digression ends

app_engine
10th September 2012, 08:24 PM
No one can dislike 'mudhal muRai pArththa gnAbakam' (http://www.thanimaram.org/2012/09/blog-post_9.html)

At the max, people can say 'idhu rAsA pAttu mAthiri illai' etc :-)

The strings (esp. cello) manadhai rambam koNdu aRukkum vallamai koNdavai...

Sureshs65
10th September 2012, 08:27 PM
app,

I heard the Telugu version of 'mudhal murai' yesterday (the one you posted.) First impression, probably Tamil lyrics are better. Yet to hear any other song in Telugu.

jaiganes
10th September 2012, 09:11 PM
NEPV on loop..
Pudikkala maamu - man that funny crazy second interlude is cruelly short - the way it was shaping up... really exhilarating..
and what a funky post lude!! superb stuff this..
all over ppl are saying that 'King has returned' I keep asserting - He was there all along - just now ppl woke up to the cheap imitations they have
been worshipping all these days.

venkkiram
10th September 2012, 09:18 PM
NEPV on loop..
Pudikkala maamu - man that funny crazy second interlude is cruelly short - the way it was shaping up... really exhilarating..
and what a funky post lude!! superb stuff this..
all over ppl are saying that 'King has returned' I keep asserting - He was there all along - just now ppl woke up to the cheap imitations they have
been worshipping all these days. இதுக்கு இன்னொரு அர்த்தம் இருக்குன்னு நினைக்கத் தோணுதுங்க. பெண்கள் என்றால், முதல் முறை பார்த்த போன்ற பாடல்களின் குரல் உணர்வு வெளிப்பாடுகள் மக்களுக்கு கடந்த பத்து பதினைந்து ஆண்டுகளாக கொஞ்சம் பழகிடுச்சி. அதனால் அந்த நீரோட்டத்தில் ராஜாவும் இப்போ கலந்துகிட்டார் என்றும் என்னோட சில நண்பர்கள் சொல்றாங்க. அவர்களின் அந்தப் பார்வையும் சரியே.

Nerd
10th September 2012, 09:22 PM
Voted for 6/8, all the middle ones. I have started liking peNgaL enRaal too, but Yuvan is absolutely horrible in this.

app_engine
10th September 2012, 09:22 PM
all over ppl are saying that 'King has returned'

In one sense, yes - i.e. featuring in a TF of better commercial recognition after a very long time (unlike 'off-from-mainstream-movies', made more for curiosity etc like NK / NL / AK)!

NEPV is the biggest in TF for IR, after virumANdi...

San_K
10th September 2012, 09:24 PM
Ennaathidhu? 201 pages 195 pages aagiduchu

jaiganes
10th September 2012, 10:25 PM
இதுக்கு இன்னொரு அர்த்தம் இருக்குன்னு நினைக்கத் தோணுதுங்க. பெண்கள் என்றால், முதல் முறை பார்த்த போன்ற பாடல்களின் குரல் உணர்வு வெளிப்பாடுகள் மக்களுக்கு கடந்த பத்து பதினைந்து ஆண்டுகளாக கொஞ்சம் பழகிடுச்சி. அதனால் அந்த நீரோட்டத்தில் ராஜாவும் இப்போ கலந்துகிட்டார் என்றும் என்னோட சில நண்பர்கள் சொல்றாங்க. அவர்களின் அந்தப் பார்வையும் சரியே.
I have to say - Raaja eppavume indha 'neerottathula' irundhukittu dhaan irukkaar. 2000s he even deployed 'malathi' in manmadha raasa mode in couple of movies. plus this view on 'westernised female' voice in vogue - Raaja was the pioneernga. Rewind to 'Usha utup' in anjali or Malgudi shabba in Nadodi thendral. neengallam ippathaan muzichu irundhu kekkureengaa (or jangallaam ippadi market panninaa dhaan kekkuraanga).

Sureshs65
10th September 2012, 10:43 PM
My writeup on 'Satru Munbu': http://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/234/

With this I have written about all the songs :) First time I am doing this for any album. And I think this album deserves the special attention we are giving it. I plan to write one more post on the overall album and the challenge Gautam has. (Hopefully I will do it tomorrow) After that I am planning to resume the normal service in #Raja90s. Who knows, we may get some clue of NEPV there as well. With Raja everything is new and everything is something he has already done !!!!

V_S
10th September 2012, 10:50 PM
I have to say - Raaja eppavume indha 'neerottathula' irundhukittu dhaan irukkaar. 2000s he even deployed 'malathi' in manmadha raasa mode in couple of movies. plus this view on 'westernised female' voice in vogue - Raaja was the pioneernga. Rewind to 'Usha utup' in anjali or Malgudi shabba in Nadodi thendral. neengallam ippathaan muzichu irundhu kekkureengaa (or jangallaam ippadi market panninaa dhaan kekkuraanga).
+infinity. Since NEPV is getting attention, many people think Raja has just now joined the mainstream and trend. The latest example being Paa, Suryakanthi, Ponnar Shankar. How many of them listened to these songs. Sutthama maranthutaanga. Most of all, in thamizh he was never given such chance recently in big movies having this kind of subject. He has been doing this all the time, but summarily dismissed just based on the movie, IR's name and its reach. When now Gautam gets IR, suddenly everyone started listening to him and praising him.

senthilv.com
10th September 2012, 11:21 PM
The "Tharunam Tharunam" sudden in-flush (overfilling the sandham, as someone pointed out, and someone wondered if it was poor lyric writing in action) in Vaanam mella:

Non-Family_Friendly Message follows - pls read at discretion. White fontla pOduREn. yArum thittAdhIngOv


"Tharunam Tharunam" creates a feeling as if someone is plucking a guitar, if you see what I mean.



Don't know if you are referencing a similar comment I made about the lyrics in the original review of mine. I like it when those notes repeat with different lyrics at the end of second saranam. I'm still not convinced about "Tharunam, Tharunam" :)

V_S
10th September 2012, 11:52 PM
http://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/234/

With this I have written about all the songs :) First time I am doing this for any album. And I think this album deserves the special attention we are giving it. I plan to write one more post on the overall album and the challenge Gautam has. (Hopefully I will do it tomorrow) After that I am planning to resume the normal service in #Raja90s. Who knows, we may get some clue of NEPV there as well. With Raja everything is new and everything is something he has already done !!!!
Fantastic! Fantastic! Suresh ji. :clap: :clap: :clap: You have brought in that atmosphere right into your writing. The biggest surprise in this song apart from that stunning mood and brilliant orchestration in WC is, as I mentioned earlier that how he incorporates opera style melody. Normally opera is sung in chorus which gives that theatrical/dramatic effect. This effect is only achievable with choir, as the depth of singing can be heard clearly. We can feel the drama in the tune itself. But here, Maestro achieves that with a female solo alone. Choir comes only during second charanam and in the last pallavi to give that dramatic effect. Before that, the main tune is itself composed in opera style. In every line there is a dramatic twist, goes high and immediately low, then high. All these are the distinguished features of opera. The prelude starts in a dramatic fashion.

We can see how the melody varies greatly between every line, giving that dramatic touch.
nenjam thudippathum minnal adippathayum sol
oh ho.. unnai pirithida ennai erithu nee sel (beautiful!)
ellam nee poi endru solvaaya? oh.. ho..

and in charanam..
thEngi pona oru nadhiyena indru naanada..!!
thaangi pidikka un thOLgaL illaiyE
thananthani kaattil indha kaadhal vaada

Especially the last line above, thananthani kaatil indha kaadhal vaada which is very high followed by sudden drop to satru munbu. :notworthy:

kaainthu pona en kannathil vannam malarumaa?
theintha vennilaa thirumba valarumaa?
thottu thottu paesum unthan kaigal yenge?

Wonderful lyrics!! :clap:

That second interlude and the finishing as you said, Bloody hell! Totally insane stuff!! You finished it brilliantly, 'The most uncompromsing song of the album'. :thumbsup:

Sureshs65
11th September 2012, 12:14 AM
Thanks V_S. That was very enlightening about the opera style of singing. This song is definitely a milestone, even in the great man's career. Extraordinary grasp of WCM fundamentals at all levels.

teja
11th September 2012, 01:15 AM
Voted for 7/8. Second half of the second half of "pudikkala mAmu" is the only bit I haven't warmed up to. Everything else.. is class apart. I just hope GM does justice to the songs. I'm not too happy to see dialogues eclipsing a major chunk of "Vaanam Mella". Hope he didn't do it to all others.

Sunil_M88
11th September 2012, 01:45 AM
I think Raaja Saab sees the current crop (with the exclusion of a few MDs) as being scared to experiment just because they worry about killing off their careers or popularity and I assume he hates that attitude and that is exactly the reason why I feel that he will always only compose the music that he wants (as he said in his interview, that he has to satisfy himself first).

Music is the most honest thing he can create because no matter what he does, it will always be a direct mirror of his soul. So whatever he composes, he is proud of it and finds no reason to think it's weak because ignorant people say so. It's a part of him and nobody can judge him except for himself.

It doesn't matter if you get a hand full bunch or a countless number of fans. IMO a music director should always put themselves first!

VinodKumar's
11th September 2012, 02:07 AM
Djoko lost his serve with a double fault and smashed his racket. Now Murray on windy side.

app_engine
11th September 2012, 02:35 AM
Djoko lost his serve with a double fault and smashed his racket. Now Murray on windy side.

appudeennA?

:lol2:

Sunil_M88
11th September 2012, 02:40 AM
Thank you, Rangarajan nambi :thumbsup:

There's no doubt that Ilaiyaraaja is well versed in Carnatic music. C'mon he has introduced many Raagams in to the film scene, my favourite being Reeti Gowlai. There are so many songs by him where Raagam unfamiliar listeners (me being one of them) hardly understand any Carnatic theory behind a song. We just feel it sounds right! Then knowledgeable people like you who've learned the music theory tell us stuff like -


For those who have some classical music int., Katrai konjam is a lovely melody set to Sankarabaranam ! R2 , G3 , M1 and D2 are dominant throughout the song but the charanam ends at D1 which is unShankarabaranamish !! That’s why the song is so melodious and attracts everyone on first hearing itself .IR is a mysterious guy when it comes to Carnatic classical ! However, I reserve my comments on Hindustani prowess.

Changing between raagams is very clever and sometimes I think Raaja Saab doesn't even choose a particular Raagam for a situation. Because he is well versed in the Carnatic field, certain Raagams just flow out naturally and to the educated listeners it seems intentional as they can identify with it. Sometimes sense of harmony is more greater, which is what seems the case to me with "Kaatrai Konjam" but thanks for clarifying the Raagam.

Any idea of what Raagam, if any has been used in "Vaanam Mella"?

Where are the Carnatic illuminators i.e. RR, Vel, etc?

Hulkster
11th September 2012, 06:54 AM
Changing between raagams is very clever and sometimes I think Raaja Saab doesn't even choose a particular Raagam for a situation. Because he is well versed in the Carnatic field, certain Raagams just flow out naturally and to the educated listeners it seems intentional as they can identify with it. Sometimes sense of harmony is more greater, which is what seems the case to me with "Kaatrai Konjam" but thanks for clarifying the Raagam.


:exactly: The way he composes is very intuitive and natural that you can sort of summarize thalaivar as a inbuilt infinite music processing system with a processor working at the speed of light.

jaiganes
11th September 2012, 08:02 AM
For those who have been following Raaja closely in the recent years, (not for the pseudo HCIRFs ) doesnt "satru munbu" remind you of "Naan porandha neramaa" from "KannukkuLLE"? The same angst and frustration in mood, amazing how Raaja has put that emotion under his magnifying lens and worked out this monster of a song!!!

Senareb
11th September 2012, 08:07 AM
today morning,i was listening the song, 'Pudikkale maamu' while travelling in my company bus..suddenly i recall the song, 'Raaja raajathi raajan intha raajaa'...

am seeing sum similarities betn. tis 2 songs.. is it so ? :roll:

K
11th September 2012, 01:02 PM
idhu varaikkum yaarukkume "Kanmani Anbodu" songoda later parts Vanam Mella pattula kekelaya?

anegan
11th September 2012, 05:20 PM
Every time I hear "Vanam Mella" it reminds me of ”பூஜைகேத்த பூவிது”.

rooky
11th September 2012, 06:55 PM
NEPV audio launch Telecast JayaTV @3.30 PM Sunday,16th September.

app_engine
11th September 2012, 07:24 PM
NEPV audio launch Telecast JayaTV @3.30 PM Sunday,16th September.

Is that considered "prime-time" by TV channel standards in TN?

Sureshs65
11th September 2012, 07:55 PM
Nice post in Tamil on 'satru munbu'

http://beyondwords.typepad.com/beyond-words/2012/09/satru-munpu.html

thumburu
11th September 2012, 08:23 PM
"Vaanam mella" oozing with syruppy, loopy melody is the song on my lips for the past couple of days. Even the nursery rhyme like simplicity in charanam is "cute" allavaa?[Raaja pottA appidithaan cholluvOmaakkum]. Esp that "tharunam tharunam" sounds too sweet musically and fits well in the song.
Tharunam , munumunukka enna kAranam? anga thAn varanum
Small but significant Nitpick : Both Raja and Bela are misfits for this melody. SPB/Hariharan/Haricharan/Rahul NambiyAr/Naresh Iyer and if Shreya had no dates, then Saindhavi/Shweta Mohan/ Chinmayi might have enhanced the listening pleasure to a great extnt

MusicIsLife
11th September 2012, 08:24 PM
Every time I hear "Vanam Mella" it reminds me of ”பூஜைகேத்த பூவிது”.

I don't know this but when I heard Mudhal Murai - i started humming Manidha Manidha ini un vizhigal!!

V_S
11th September 2012, 08:27 PM
Nice post in Tamil on 'satru munbu'

http://beyondwords.typepad.com/beyond-words/2012/09/satru-munpu.html
Superb article on Satru munbu. :clap: Anbuvichu ezhuthi irukkaar. Thanks a lot Suresh ji.


போர்முனை போல வெகுண்டு எழும் செல்லோ இசையும், சத்தமான சிம்பல் உச்சகட்டங்களும் பாடலை இசைநாடகம் போல உணர்ச்சிகொந்தளிப்பாக ஆக்கியுள்ளது. அதுவும் குறிப்பாக, 'தன்னந்தனி காட்டில் எந்தன் காதல் வாட', என உச்சியில் நிறுத்தும் இடம் சமீபகால திரைப்பட இசையில் எங்கும் கேட்டிராதது.


'சற்று முன்பு' பாடலில் இளையராஜா சாதித்திருப்பதும் இப்படிப்பட்ட உணர்வைத்தான். மீண்டும் மீண்டும் பலமுறை கேட்கத் தூண்டும் பாடல், கேட்க கேட்க நம்முள் ஊர்ந்து வளரும் தன்மையைக் கொண்ட இசை. மிக அந்தரங்கமான உணர்வை வெளிப்படுத்த கனமான குரலில் நிதானமாகப் பாடியுள்ளார் ரம்யா. அற்புதமான இசையாக்கம். தென்றல் வந்து தீண்டும்போது, நீ பார்த்த பார்வை, வானெங்கும் தங்க விண்மீன்கள், என்னுள்ளே என்னுள்ளே, என் இனிய பொன்னிலாவே வரிசையில் மிக ஆழமான சோகத்தை தன்னுள் அடக்கிய பாடல். காலத்தைத் தாண்டி ஒலிக்கக்கூடிய பாடலாக இதுவும் இருக்கும்.

:notworthy:

app_engine
11th September 2012, 08:30 PM
காலத்தைத் தாண்டி ஒலிக்கக்கூடிய பாடலாக


I told this (posted here) after listening to this song for the first time :-)

Nice share, nanRi Sureshji!

sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
11th September 2012, 09:40 PM
Is that considered "prime-time" by TV channel standards in TN?

No! But may be the programme will run till 9! In reality the programme started at 8 and ran till 12. So ~2 Hrs of Commercial stuff! Considering this is the 1st programme after the Audio becming a Blockbuster Hit, there could be many sponsors. Its a Jackpot for Jaya TV!

San_K
11th September 2012, 09:46 PM
Is that considered "prime-time" by TV channel standards in TN?

Why not? it is holiday after lunch many will be relaxed and can watch the show

SoftSword
11th September 2012, 10:18 PM
for some exclusive programs, any time the program being telecasted becomes prime time...

layman10
11th September 2012, 10:26 PM
Why not? it is holiday after lunch many will be relaxed and can watch the show

I think the weak link is Jaya TV. I think not many even tune to it, to able to catch the promo.

V_S
11th September 2012, 11:24 PM
Since the composition we are about to talk is mainly composed with the violin family (Double bass, Cello, Viola, Violin) and the piano, I thought what would be the impact when we listen to such extravagant piece of music. The results are astounding. When Thomas Jefferson was about to write the Declaration of independence, he could not get the correct words. He was struggling. He picked up his violin and started playing. Through this music, he was able to get the right words from his brain to paper. Einstein says he was so smart because he played violin. Looks like he found most of this unsolved problems solved by playing his violin. Cello is again a wonderful instrument. This is actually a therapeutic instrument which creates positive influences in life. These are the instruments which can provide self-expression where words fail to describe their thoughts.

Mozart’s Sonata for two pianos as they say is often used as a test to test the students IQ before and after. Those who listened to this music before they wrote their exams performed way better than those who listened to other kind of music and also more than who didn’t listen to any. Even the studies and research on music for plants and animals gave stunning results. We already know that cows can yield more milk when it listens to music. We have seen this in our ‘grAmarAjan’ films when he sings Azhagee Nee PErazhagi.

Violin (and the family) is one of the best instruments humans have ever invented. Unfortunately this is not used frequently in our Indian music nowadays. Studies prove those who listen to baroque music and Classical music which mainly consists of violins, decreases the heart rate, blood pressure and relaxes you more and increases the ability to learn. The biggest advantage is our memory retention even increases to 100%. I have certainly experienced great relaxation when I hear Mudhal Murai and Satru Munbu. The music literally releases the neurons in our brain which make us relax more. That’s why I call this as pure music with no adulteration, it cleanses our body and soul and creates positive vibrations. Let’s move on…

I have never heard such a bold female voice in recent times. Even when Sunidhi sang in MX, Chal Chalein, Om Shanthi, Paa, I could not recognize this boldness in her voice. May be in 2-3 years her voice matured. That little bit of masculine hint in her voice as App stated adds more kick and spice to her voice. We know Usha Utup, but the masculine is more prominent in her voice, which only suits for particular songs. LR Eswari, K B SundarambaL were the two I could think of. They also have a bit of masculine throat, but with Sunidhi , she only has a small hint of it, just small and tiny, which makes her voice very special. Topping it all, she also has a sweet voice unlike others. This also makes the Mudhal murai very special and seducing to hear. Another specialty about these bold voices is that they almost sound the same at lower, middle and higher octaves which give a pleasant listen throughout the song. Only Mohammed Rafi (even though he does not have bold voice) has such kind of voice in male playback singers. It is constant throughout. He can touch any higher note very easily without any strain.

Even when we have few complaints about some singer choices in this soundtrack, all this is nullified by just the selection of this singer. I am amazed how Maestro selected Sunidhi’ s voice for this song. From any of her previous songs (at least in IR compositions) did not explicitly say she would be perfect for this song, since her voice was totally different in all her previous outings. In that way, Maestro accurately sensed that her voice would be perfect for this mood and singing, especially finding that masculine hint in her voice. She also needed a composition like this to really make her voice stand out like never before. All this makes this song a Nadia Comaneci.

Very unusual start to the song. Double bass playing just two chords at lower octaves with electric guitar punctuation at higher octaves. Piano playing 6 base notes followed by the same guitar screaming along with double bass. Then the usual rhythm starts with double bass. He just needed 6 seconds to warm up and get into the rhythm of the song. Even the first 6 seconds he is not relaxing, just getting into the groove with intermittent chords. That sound of double bass is very haunting, even these instruments only play lowest notes. It's been a very long long time I am hearing this instrument in an Indian film song, or is it the first time? As they say, Raavan creates strings out of his nerves and plays, I can literally feel that sound here. The main reason there is purest devotion when he needs more power, and here is out of purest love, when she needs more love.

I guess this follows the standard 4/4 time signature. The electric guitar pitches high when she sings mudhal murai paartha nyaabagam, but when she sings uyirinil thanthu pOgiraai, the guitar chords amazingly comes down, even both the lines has exactly same swaras if I am not wrong. Still he brings the chords down in the second line while the tune goes up and to hear that, brings shiver in me. In every note like this, there is a surprise. When she sings the next line, EnO Or bhaaram, the cellos rush along with her to give a crescendo finish with a fractional pause. The cellos continue even after she finished singing EnO bhaaram. Why? The guitar which was extending the first two lines is not there in the next two lines. Since the cellos start playing in the next two lines building the tension, Maestro uses the same cello to extend rather than bringing guitar. Brilliant idea!

I am completely blown away by this tune in anu-pallavi. A very very sweet tune for this racy song.
sila nEram maayam seithaai
sila nEram kaayam seithaai
madi meethu thoonga vaithaai
maru naaLil yEnga vaithaai
veyilaa mazhaiyaa valiyaa sugamaa edhu nee.. neethaane en pon vasantham…neethane en pon vasantham

Again I am shattered during the charanam, especially when see sings 'thee alaigaL'. What a seducing rendition! :notworthy:
neenthi varum nilavinilE
or aayiram nyabagangalL
neenganedum kanaavinilE
nooraayiram thee alaigaL

Here too he didn't want to repeat pon vasantham more than twice, so that it will be tedious. He changes to un vasantham…un vasantham. Small thought, big rewards. Maestro keeps the same tension in anu-pallavi too. Normally we have seen instruments will be minimal when the singer is singing. Many apply this concept as a default for all the song. Here imagine if there were no backing instruments when the singer is singing that too for this fierce emotion. It would have lacked big time, just like a sprinter tries to gear up for the finish having started poorly. Since the cellos are played continuously right when she started singing, that why he can build up the crescendo effortlessly and finish it up brilliantly. If he had used only as filler between the lines, again it would have looked awkward to hear. He plans, prepares based on how the tune is and how the instruments should be arranged accordingly, rather than waiting for that moment to start playing. Just like a sprinter, has to start off correctly, keep running to finish first. If he misses anywhere either at the start, middle or at the finish, he cannot win. All these brilliant ideas make us to get into the groove right-away. Big stuff made to look so simple.

Everyone already talked about the solo melancholy violin. How slowly he builds with a solo violin into group of violins and cellos and finish with crescendo only to give the baton to ever soothing piano and when it is about to finish, he kicks off with the drums to gain momentum into the charanam. All the while he has been playing bass guitar without fail, but only during the piano and in the charanam it is ever heard. That small roll of hi-hat is such delectation to hear. How minute we hear that sound, may be first I am hearing this very clearly. I used to rewind this piece 'n' number of times.

The cellos and violins closely follow the tune in charanam to avoid any last minute rush as I said earlier. Very very sweet and free flowing charanam despite the raciness, fierce energy, not a drop of soul was compromised. As Sunidhi goes to up to higher pitches, I like her voice even more. No shrill, no strain, very confident, very dominant, very powerful, yet I can hear the huge pain in her voice. Totally floored by her voice and singing. :notworthy: Even there is a slight slang in her singing in certain words, that is so absorbing to hear. That innocence in those words doesn't make me feel odd, rather feel high. Waiting to hear her sing again for Maestro.

One of the striking aspects of this composition is the speed. It races like a jet once it starts, except that few seconds of piano in the interlude which comes as an oasis for her fierce emotions. Any speed less or more would have spoiled the composition. This is one aspect I always admire, how he fixes the correct tempo? :notworthy: The highlight is this is not even a happy song or a dance song. How audacious to keep a tempo like this in songs like this? Maestro only knows the trick! Just like pengaL endraal, this is highly unstructured song where we have only one charanam, with one pallavi, one anupallavi with another mini anupallavi in the form of neethaane en ponvasantham hook. This unconventional structure describes the varied and unwary emotions and mood of the lover. One of the biggest contrasts of this song compared to pengaL yendraal is the way he arranged and orchestrated both the songs. We should even add Satru Munbu here to see all three solos with almost similar situation carrying contrasting styles. One is purely based on rock genres, this one is based on rock classical while Satru munbu is based on opera classical.

While he brought the similar emotions using guitar in pengaL yendraal, he did the current one mostly with violin family. While he traversed many rock sub genres mainly with just electric guitar, here he traversed the whole violin family (double bass, cellos, violas, violins) keeping almost the single genre. There the instrument is one but genres are different, here the genre is same (not much changes) but used many different instruments in the same family. In Satru munbu, since that is opera, he used everything right from flute, piano, violins, male choir, and female choir to bring out the drama effectively. One Maestro, three brilliant concepts for almost same situation.

This is what I call music. It shook me to extremes. There is not a single note which is out of focus. There is not a single instrument which is out of place. Every note and every instrument has a purpose. Every note is fresh and new after 5000 songs. The mood he brought in with the orchestration is top notch (no words to describe actually) and only proves again why orchestration is so important in a composition like this! We can be totally with the song throughout. We can cry (at the mood and the singing), smile (at his brilliant ideas), laugh (with pride what we are listening to) with this composition. We can feel the pain listening to it. We can bring back our fond memories with the song. Compositions like this will haunt us forever. Compositions like this really prove he is a super-human. Compositions of a life time which only Maestro can compose again. If Maestro is ready to take us to an entire different journey and world with his pure music which will provide positive influences, to understand the real meaning of life, to the paths of glory, we are adamant and hell bent that we will not provide him any such opportunities and only listen and hail the mediocre. That’s our birth right and freedom.

சாகா வரம் பெற்ற பாடல்கள் !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz33GIqQAYQ

writeface
11th September 2012, 11:38 PM
There is not a single note which is out of focus. There is not a single instrument which is out of place. Every note and every instrument has a purpose. Every note is fresh and new after 5000 songs.



+1

This was precisely what I had in mind this morning when listening to Satru Munbu.

Gokul.

app_engine
11th September 2012, 11:51 PM
Awesome write-up, V_Sji!

It's getting better and better :-)

senthilv.com
12th September 2012, 12:05 AM
LR Eswari, K B SundarambaL were the two I could think of. They also have a bit of masculine throat, but with Sunidhi , she only has a small hint of it, just small and tiny, which makes her voice very special. Topping it all, she also has a sweet voice unlike others.

சாகா வரம் பெற்ற பாடல்கள் !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz33GIqQAYQ



I felt the same way. Keep hearing K.B. SundarambaL when I hum on my own. But LRE could be great too!

Excellent write-up V_S. Inspiring for me to throw my 2 notes in there. May be soon!

San_K
12th September 2012, 12:19 AM
V_S :clap: Ammadiyov

San_K
12th September 2012, 12:27 AM
I think this is first time ever in this forum, a music album thread heading towards 200 pages (almostt) that too even before movie release. Only raaja possible :)

San_K
12th September 2012, 12:28 AM
OK... NEPV even induced me to write something


நீதானே என் பொன்வசந்தம் பாடல்கள் - ஒரு கேட்பு அனுபவம்

நேற்று இரவு படுக்கையில் ஏற்கனவே பல தடவைகள் கேட்ட நீதானே என் பொன்வசந்தம் பாடல்கள் மீண்டும் கேட்க ஆரம்பித்தேன். முதல் பாடலாக 'முதல் முறை பார்த்த ஞாபகம்'. முடிந்தவுடன் மீண்டும் கேட்டே ஆக வேண்டும் என்று மனது பரபரக்க அதை ரிபீட் செய்ய முயல்கையில், ஆரம்பித்தது பாருங்கள் கடவுள் உள்ளமே பாட்டின் ஆரம்ப கோரஸ் போல கிறங்கடிக்கும் கோரஸுடன் அந்த பாட்டு, அதே தான் வானம் மெல்ல.., செவிடன் தான் பாதியில் நிப்பாட்டுவான் அதை.

பாட்டு ஊதின மகுடியில் பாட்டு முடிய, சரி இப்போவாவது அந்த முதல் பாடலை ரிபீட் செய்யலாம்னா, 'கிட்டார் குத்து' புடிக்கல மாமு ஆரம்பிக்க, சரி இந்தப்பாட்டு புடிக்கும் ஆனா புடிக்காது வகையறா ஆச்சே அப்படினா நினச்சதுதான் தாமதம், செவுட்டுல அடிச்சது முதல் இண்டர்லுட் அப்புறம் கார்த்திக்கின் 'பத்தாதே' எனக்கு பத்தலை கேட்க கேட்க. எனவே பத்தாதே பார்ட் மட்டும் ரிபீட் செய்ய ஆவலாகி, 'சே சே முதல்ல முதல் முறை தான் ரிபீட் செய்யணும்'.

இப்படிஎல்லாம் யோசிச்சுகிட்டு இருக்கும் போதே என்னோடு வா வா பாட்டு குச்சிய வாங்கிட்டு ரிலே ரேஸ்ல யானை பிளிறலோடு ஓட ஓரம்பித்தது. வேற வழி அதோட தான் போகணும். இந்த பாட்டு முடிந்தவுடன், இந்த தடவை, கண்டிப்பா முதல் பாடலை ரிபீட் செஞ்சே ஆகணும்... என்னோடு வா வா பாடலோட முதல் பாதியில் கார்த்திக் குரல் இசைகருவிகளின் சத்தங்களுடன் பின்னிப்பிணைய இரண்டாவது சரணத்தில் துண்டாக ஒலிக்கும். ஏன் இப்படி பண்ணி இருக்கார் இவர்.

ஒரே குழப்பம். யுவன் தான் சிந்தனை கலைத்தார் 'பெண்கள் என்றால் பொய்யா பொய் தானா' என்று உண்மை பாடி. ஆஹா வித வித கிடார்களும் அதன் ஒலிகளும், நினைக்கவே இனிக்கும் இதை கேட்காமல் விடுவானேன். இந்த பாடலின் முதல் இண்டர்லுட் அவ்வளவு மாடர்ன், அதோட ஓட்டம் பாடலின் எல்லைக்கே கொண்டு சென்றது.

கலைவாணர் பேத்தி ஆரம்பிப்பதற்கு சற்று முன்பே நான் முழிச்சுருக்கணும். ஹ்ம்ம் முதல் முறை ரிபீட் செய்ய முடியாமல் தவிப்பது இது முதல் முறையா என்ன? சுந்தரி கண்ணால் ஒரு சேதிக்கு சவால் விடும் இண்டர்லுட்கள் கேட்பதுனா சும்மாவா. பாடலின் முடிவில் உத்துக்கேட்டதில், ஒரு கோரஸ் தாண்டவமே ஆட, பாடலால் காதலியின் சோகம் அப்பிக்கொள்ள அதை துடைக்குறதுக்குள்ள, சாய்ந்து சாய்ந்து ன்னு ஒரு பாடல், இதன் சரணங்களின் பாதங்களில் சரணம் ஆவதை தவிர வேறு வழி இருக்கவில்லை பத்தாக்குறைக்கு அந்த இரண்டாவது இண்டர்லுட் வேறு.

அப்போ எப்போதான் முதல் முறை ரிபீட் செய்வது?. சாய்ந்து சாய்ந்து பாடலின் ரிதத்தில் ஒரு ரதமே ஓடி முடிய, காற்றையே நிற்க வைக்கும் பாட்டு... 'ரிபீட் செய்வதையா' மறக்க வைக்க முடியாது. இந்த பாட்டில் எந்தெந்த இடங்களில் எத்தனை லேயர்கள் மியூசிக் போட்டு இருக்கிறார் என்று எண்ணுவது (சரியாக எண்ண முடியாவிட்டாலும்) சுகமோ சுகம், அதையே செய்தேன். கம்ப்யூட்டர் துணை இல்லாமல் இப்படி செய்வது எப்படி சார் எப்படி?.

அடுத்த பாடல்..... முதல் முறை பார்த்த ஞாபகம். நான் 'ரிபீட் ஆல்' சுவிட்ச் ஆன் பண்ணியிருந்தேன் போல. இந்த பாடலை ரிபீட் செய்து கேட்க நினைத்தது ஞாபகம் வந்சுச்சா இல்லையானு கேட்குறீங்களா? ஆனா ஒன்னு இந்த மாதிரி இந்த பாடலை மூணு, நாலு முறை ரிபீட் செஞ்சது கேட்டது அடுத்த நாள் பல் விளக்கும் போது ஞாபகம் வந்தது. அந்த பாடலின் முதல் இண்டர்லுடில் வரும் 'அழும் ஒற்றை வயலினுக்கு' நான் அடிமை.

கவனிக்க: இதில் ஒரு முறை கூட இளையராஜா பெயரை நான் உபயோகிக்கவில்லை :)

rajkumarc
12th September 2012, 12:59 AM
VS - Great writeup :clap:

San_K - That's what happens with me every time and I repeat the whole album instead of one song :smile:

app_engine
12th September 2012, 01:15 AM
San_K, WOW!

This is probably one rare album with such a variety / energy / novelty / repeatability!

எட்டு லட்டு!

:thumbsup: Gautam!

V_S
12th September 2012, 01:59 AM
Thank you gokul, App, senthilv, San_K, rajkumarc for your compliments.:smile:
San_K, Beautifully written. :clap: Great to see NEPV made you write. Please do so often.
senthilv, waiting for your post eagerly.

irir123
12th September 2012, 03:51 AM
i still cant figure out as to how and why IR chose to do this ranagalam for GVM ?!

what did GVM do that most other directors in recent times couldnt - to bring out this monster from IR ?!

was it the freedom he accorded IR, or, was it his genuine 'sir naan chinna vayasilirundhey unga fan sir', or, is it the lure of the 108 piece orchestra in london that drove IR to such creative lunacy (if i can use that word here at all) ??

V_S
12th September 2012, 05:03 AM
Very good question irir123. :thumbsup: I may be wrong, but this is what I feel.

I think it is the subject (youth subject), budget, freedom, and of course the marketing. He could replace the synth with live instruments which made a huge difference. Even in Dhoni, SRR, Pazhassi Raja, ASK, Ponnar Shankar, Snehaveedu he used real instruments, still the former was a tight budget one with poor marketing, while the latter even though they were hits in their respective places, they were not reachable to many mainly because they are regional films. If we strictly restrict to thamizh films only, then subject, budget, freedom, marketing all are needed nowadays, apart from the movie also need to be from recognized director. If any one of them is not there, then it is difficult nowadays.

Also, I think he was eyeing to use the symphony orchestra (knowing those musicians calibre) for a long time and it got materialized in NEPV. In no way his recent other songs were inferior to these songs. Even in 80s/90s we had grand Dhalapathi, Anjali on the other hand, Ooru vittu ooru vandhu, en raasaavin manasile etc, but the time was such that they recognized both of them equally even without much promotions. Also the film subjects were totally different still they were recognized. We didn't see the difference as huge as now. In no way Ooru vittu ooru vandhu or en raasaavin manasile is inferior to the former, but now we tend to think the other way that IR did not do his best for other movies and suddenly he has shown everything in NEPV. If so, I would disagree on that. I still can't take my ears away on viLaayaatta padagOti or Vaangum Panathukkum or yathe yathe or feel inferior compared to NEPV. That is one kind of beauty, this is another. We can even argue if Dhoni got a freedom as much as NEPV, he would have changed the orchestration and all, which according to me is hypothetical.

We all wrote these big posts for NEPV (crossed 200 pages) which never happened to his other recent films. The mentality is totally changed nowadays even among we fans. What I meant to say is, we see a huge difference in NEPV compared to his recent works, that is probably because it is newly released and we too succumb to popularity and marketing apart from musically (which is already well deserved). As and when the years pass by, the difference quotient will reduce gradually that we will see the beauty in every of his composition (IMHO).

Concluding my opinion again: the subject (most important), budget, freedom, and of course the marketing is the need of the hour. All of the above, not just one or two or three. If Raja does a village subject with less known producer/director, it will never click, the atmosphere has completely changed. Mainly because there is not much focus among the audience. There is no concentration. There are too many things for them to do. Even NEPV, I am sure they will listen for few days and trash it. Today, even with heavy marketing, they tend to listen kolaveri di, nakka mukka with same enthusiasm to NEPV, treating them the same unable to distinguish. The audience we got in 80s/90s is already lost. Only when it knocks them, they turn back and tend to listen. This one knocked them and are listening and thinking Raja is back, no fault with Raja, it is the shuffled atmosphere (like Vijay and his friends shuffle the papers in 3 idiots in the exam hall). ellathayum kalachi pOttutaanga. :smile:

marnsZet
12th September 2012, 06:16 AM
i still cant figure out as to how and why IR chose to do this ranagalam for GVM ?!

what did GVM do that most other directors in recent times couldnt - to bring out this monster from IR ?!

was it the freedom he accorded IR, or, was it his genuine 'sir naan chinna vayasilirundhey unga fan sir', or, is it the lure of the 108 piece orchestra in london that drove IR to such creative lunacy (if i can use that word here at all) ??A
And to add to what V_S has already written, GVM is the only one who could express clearly what he wanted like " i want your melodies with completely new sound" etc. And he was not scared of Raja like others. He even went to the extent of suggesting " inga male voice start ahuthu appuram guitar start ahuthu nnu nan en mind le fix panni vachu irukken sir". How many directors of his recent movies could have had the guts to talk to him like this.
He was very comfortable with IR and was not hesitant to express what he wanted. Only a man very confident of himself and his work can do this. Juxtapose this incident with Naser's avathaaram experience. No doubt IR gave divine melodies there too but what was the contribution of the director in that.
So GVK deserves kudos for having shown to the world what IR is capable of.

jaiganes
12th September 2012, 07:59 AM
I felt the same way. Keep hearing K.B. SundarambaL when I hum on my own. But LRE could be great too!

Excellent write-up V_S. Inspiring for me to throw my 2 notes in there. May be soon!

sumaal nit pick V_Sji - sunidhi has always been known to be the 'blast the heck out' singer in north. Maestro surprised many in north by using her against the stereotype in
Hichki Hichki.
Here he asks her to perform in a familiar arena - but the difference is that the crescendo where she peaks - he pulls her abruptly out and puts the 'chorus' in with 'Nee Dhaa NE en pon vasandham' - That is the pinnacle moment of the song - that surprise sustains the song and carries it to its immortality.. Beautiful beautiful song - and V_S what wonderful writing man!!
thou art a trader alone in your practice!!! very unique style of writing - details, technicality and then the delighted fanboy in you with whom we connect everyday!! Nalla Iruyya nee!!

V_S
12th September 2012, 08:15 AM
Thank you so much Ji for your heart-felt kind words. :D Good to know that Sunidhi is already a different singer in North. I didn't know that. Great information.


Here he asks her to perform in a familiar arena - but the difference is that the crescendo where she peaks - he pulls her abruptly out and puts the 'chorus' in with 'Nee Dhaa NE en pon vasandham' - That is the pinnacle moment of the song - that surprise sustains the song and carries it to its immortalityVery well said Jai. :thumbsup: Absolutely!

sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
12th September 2012, 08:39 AM
i still cant figure out as to how and why IR chose to do this ranagalam for GVM ?!

what did GVM do that most other directors in recent times couldnt - to bring out this monster from IR ?!

was it the freedom he accorded IR, or, was it his genuine 'sir naan chinna vayasilirundhey unga fan sir', or, is it the lure of the 108 piece orchestra in london that drove IR to such creative lunacy (if i can use that word here at all) ??

I wondered why Kamal didn't couldn't pull something similar. But if u look keen, Kamal is the only producer who agreed for a professional orchestra outside india, for 2 times, Hey Raam & Mumbai Express. Maybe Virumaandi they avoided as it is a rural subject. Viru & Hey Raam, the music did full justice for the theme/plot, both of them were dark themes, not as vibrant as a simple love story like NEPV. Suresh65 says NEPV itself a darker album of Raja! Athu vera kathai, but still NEPV is the most colorful albums of recent times, be it IR or non-IR.

I always will feel MX is kind of let down. Jazz, athu ithunnu sollunga, athu vera vishayam. But some how the album didn't work for me, as a thara ticket IR fan.

One may say that Kamal always breaks and skips (spoils nnu kooda sollalaam :lol: ) the Songs as much as possible! DevarMagan the Puthiyathu piranthathu song is half cut, Maasaru ponne varuga partly filled with dialogs, song runs in background. Mahanathi one song skipped & audio itself released too late after the film release! Anbe Sivam, one song cut & one song the singer is changed. Likewise, Virumaandi too all songs not used. MX, too same case. Just saying!

Kamal always looks for new combination Almost all the current stars do that. Likewise, IR too wud be too too excited for a new combo like GVM the current gen's Maniratnam :lol: added to that the other respects he did( :clap: :notworthy: )But when composing was done, nothing was done! Just that GVM released the teaser and agreed for "Enga veNaa pOi record pannalaam, Sir". So, may be, IR is interested for new gen, talented directors!

Ippo irukkura actors, both 50+ and those nearing 40(ajith, vijay, surya) all want new heroines, new new directors, top class technicians etc, and some still act as college student! IR mattum yang directors oda work apnnanumnu aasaippada koodaathaa :lol: avarum youth thaaneyaa!! :D

sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
12th September 2012, 08:43 AM
Dhoni ellaam, as a subject, avarai konjam kooda excite pannirukka vaaippillai. ASK et all, NEPV maathiri new blood illai. Surely an indication that either the director shud excite him to the core wrt the subject he says and/or his talent, give full freedom. Youth aa irunthaa, setha thevalai :)

venkkiram
12th September 2012, 08:46 AM
திரு வி.எஸ். கலக்கிட்டிங்க. அசத்தலான கட்டுரை. உங்களின் ஒவ்வொரு வரிகளும் என்னைப் போன்ற இசைக்கருவிகளை பற்றிய ஞானம் இல்லாதவர்களுக்கு உறுதுணையான அகராதி. ராஜாவின் ஜீவனுள்ள இசைப் பாடல்களுக்கு இதுபோன்ற கட்டுரைகள்தான் பாமாலைகள். வாழ்த்துக்கள்.

சற்று முன்பு, முதல் முறை இரண்டிலும் பாடல் வரிகள் ரொம்ப கச்சிதமா அதே நேரத்தில் காதலின் பிரிவை, சோகத்தை, வலியை, இயலாமையை, வெறுமையை ரொம்ப தீவிரமாக வெளிப்படுத்துகிறது.

ரம்யா, சுனிதாவின் குரல் ஏற்ற இறக்கங்கள் - இந்த ஆல்பத்தை எங்கேயோ போய் நிறுத்துகின்றது. ஆமாம். சாகா வரம் பெற்ற பாடல்கள்.

(ஓம் சாந்தி ஓமிலிருந்து Jag soona lage பாடலை கேட்டுப்பாருங்கள். ஆரம்பத்தில் வரும் ரிச்சா ஷர்மா என்ற பெண்ணின் குரல் வழி வெளிப்படும் காதலின் பிரிவுத் துயரம் நம் மனதையே அசைத்துவிட்டு செல்லும்.)