Neethane En Ponvasantham | Yeto Vellipoyindhi Manasu | Assi Nabbe Poorey Sau

[raja_fan]

Inraikku "nostalgic Raja" nu solrom easyaa.
But is that just nostalgia ?
No, it is the quality of music that Raja gave in the 80's irrespective of the technology and media that time.
That is that quality which enables his music to climb and sit on any modern platform of internet or music systems.

[krish244]

Raja_fan,

Very much agree with your comments. GVM is working with IR purely because of the aura (through his music (songs and BGM)) that IR has maintained till date.

Kind of coincidence if I can say, but just today morning (while driving and listening to some of his latest hits) I was admiring IR's talent, determination and hard work has kept him going despite top directors leaving him post 90's period.

thanks,a

Krishnana


Jaiganes,

இதுல ராஜாவோட லக் என்ன இருக்கு ?
கெளதம் மாதிரி இயக்குனர் ராஜாவுக்கு இப்போ கெடைச்சது லக் என்றால், மணிரத்தினம், ரஜினி போன்றவர்கள் ராஜாவை பிரிந்தது ?
எதாவது நடந்து கொண்டு தான் இருக்கும். அதற்க்கு தயாராக ஒருவர் தன்னை survive and wait மோடில் வைத்திருக்கிறார் பாருங்கள். அது தான் ராஜாவின் சிறப்பு.
அந்த தம் கட்டி நிற்ப்பது தான் ராஜா.

Comparison is bad, But just imagine..
Suppose for imagination sake, director Shankar was a big fan of Melisai mannar MSV. Would he have convinced producers/financiers or audio companies with the idea that he would work with that legend around the time period of 1996 ?
Simply no chance, because MSV did not have that "Staying power" as IR .

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Raja_fan, Hope you know that this topic and all discussed verymuch.

Raja when he joins with a director who can inspire Raja(even just 1% is enuf!) he will give great music, inspite of how kappithanamaana story the director has.

Ovvoru situation um oru thani story solraapla sollaNum, the director shud be a guy who generally give importance to songs and his videos are Superhits, ippadipatta oru director maattinaa Raajavukkum namakku jolly thaan! Becos he, like a happy baby, will indulge in bringing up the most interesting compositions and we fans are here to enjoy them. But the -ve factors keeping Raja away from the new age popular directors are

1. Absolute lack of marketing from Raja's side, both indirect and direct
2. His image which ppl think has Some kind of harshness. Bayam!
3. Existing MDs oda collaboration sopil aagidumo engira bayam!

Gautam successfully broke all 3 and went ahead. The result is this natural hype whose other name is pure-expectation.

[SoftSword]

sagala...
imo, gautham is a hardcore raja fan and he always had a wish to work with raja...
jus that it has materialized now... chinna vayasula thaan kaettu rasicha rajakittayae situation solli tune vaangi koodave work panradhaala romba sandhosatthula irukkaar... adhanaala ovvoru visayatthayum kondaadraar... being a fan, ippo irukkura kaalatthula avaroda isai epdi reach aaganumnu nenakkiraaro adhellaam seiyaraar... adhukkanga recognition kedakka ellaam panraar...
avar harris koodayum work pannitaar... ARR koodayum work pannitaar... music'e illaadha oru padamum edukkanumnu adhuvum edutthukkaattittaar... raja koodayum work pannittaarna oru full circle vandhuruvaar... ashte...

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

aamaanga, yaaru illainnu sonnathu?! but naan Raja side story yai solren!

[SoftSword]

right, i just meant beyond all the negative factors u mentioned, gautham went to work with him only for his love for raja...

[jaiganes]

right, i just meant beyond all the negative factors u mentioned, gautham went to work with him only for his love for raja...
which is called nostalgia..

[SoftSword]

which is called nostalgia..

appudiyaa... naan neenda naal kanavu'nu nenachen...

[V_S]

raja_fan,
One of your best post. padikarthukku aanandhama irundhuthu. :clap:

As raja_fan observed, I don't see this as just nostaligia or any luck. It is Raja's perseverance and his love for music made him stay and firmly stand against any obstacles for 20 long years, which brought him to score films like Guru/Virumandi/Paa/Cheeni Kum/Pazhassi Raja/SRR & NEPV. Even if GVM is a fan of Raja, if Raja is not in the market, whether he would have approached Raja? No way!. He is an ocean, the imaginations and innovations will never dry. GVM believed in him. Raja is still the same Raja how he was in 80s/90s, only people left him. As I mentioned in SPB-IR thread recently about my talk with my friends on Siraichaalai songs and score, we also thought how people failed to recognize this masterpiece. People (inside the film industry/media) just took advantage of the friction between Raja and the directors/lyricist/producers happened in 90s and made it bigger and made a illusionized shift that Raja is not like before and he is arrogant, except few directors/produces who were very passionate about the music in their films went to Raja. No way in the history he let down any producer/director with his music.

[Nerd]

Jai, that was not the right comeback.

VTV 2C OK, oththukkalaam
Next oru sengaaththu boomi varum paarunga which will be sold for 5,000 rupees :lol2:
Only meesic director to achieve such a feet.

And luck ellaam illeeng, given the *right* directors his output has always been very very good. Even post 92. In the last 5 years nandhalaala, naan kadavuL, azhagarsami etc. So he has always been reliable. So GVM going to him was not even a 'blind' decision.

I am waiting for Vetrimaaran / Mysskin / Kumararaja etc. to work with him. Times running out folks.

[app_engine]

Next oru sengaaththu boomi varum paarunga which will be sold for 5,000 rupees :lol2:
Only meesic director to achieve such a feet.


:lol2:
I think recently 'mudhalvar mahAtmA' (or some movie like that) was given away as free download / open source

(That way, nothing for IRF's to boast on the sale price of NEPV. It's Gautam's achievement IMHO and he would have got it with other top MDs in the market today as well. OTOH, that IR can still arouse interest in such market leaders is definitely something to be proud of! What a staying power! )

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Vetrimaaran / Mysskin / Kumararaja - We may get something in lines of Azhagarsaamiyin Kuthirai. But we need IR to work in movies where either the director is somewhat youth director or the Cast shud be the new gen. Surya like... Above all, the director shud be someone Raja shud feel this guy has some matter on his head. Gautam is one such. He is not just a fanboy but also had a plan on what to ask to Raja sir, and how to ask.

None of the Raja album has been hyped like this one and Thalapathy, i mean pre-release hype. For that to happen, some youth appeal need to be there. Only then, the film will "pathikkum" in youths mind from the moment the movie is announced.

[Sureshs65]

I will definitely got with raja_fan and V_S here. I guess my stand will not surprise anyone, least of all Jai :D

It is indeed a fact that Raja had become commercially 'weak' but musically he is still the same. The same imagination flows, the same thirst for experimentation, the need to do something different always and that single minded devotion to perfection. While people have been very harsh about his synth usage, I have argued that it is synth usage that is still keeping him current. People understand that he is not in the 'I have done everything' mode and is willing to adapt.

More importantly, as my friend and fellow hubber NagaS, always tells me that is a wonder that Raja's profile is so high inspite of him not being a 'commercial' success. Why has the profile of a music director, who is supposed to have been swept away by a storm, still so high? Why is it so high inspite of making very powerful enemies in the film world? Why is it so high when the biggest and high profile directors refuse to work with him? Why is it high when he knows not how to speak on stage and doesn't seem to understand the ABC of public relations? There could be only one answer: sheer talent. Great masters of Indian music have slowly faded away and have spent their later days in the shadows. Examples abound. But Raja, even today is a major factor and the only reason is that he delivers. And that is the reason why Gautam went to him. He wanted to leverage on 'Brand Raja' and it definitely was not Raja's luck nor was it nostalgia. Gautam is a very good businessman to let nostalgia get in the way of commercial success. He went to Raja because he knew there is still lot of power to Raja's brand and he milked it quite well I would say.

[app_engine]

I had been posting a couple of facts in a KH thread in TF section and it may be appropriate to mention them here as well.

The trigger point was someone (cinefan? cinemarasigan? ) talking about IR not being considered for a "big-bud-city-modern" movie for a long time (in the course of this meaningless discussion about "whether-KH-will-air-lift-rAsA-to-LA").

1. cheeni kum & pA were city / modern types ; interestingly, rAsA's biggest successes in bollywood happened during the period when he is labelled by TF biggies as "commercially unviable" :lol2:

2. pazhassi rAjA & SRR are "big bud" movies in the respective fields

3. NEPV should fit both criteria (big bud / city modern) and it happens right here in TF. Commerce even seems to like it :wink:

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

App & Suresh

Big budget is not always a Criteria. NEPV is not a big budget right? NEPV landing on Raja's hand is good thing and I am saying about forthcoming strategy. The fans who he already has, thats a good amount. And there airtel supersinger and the Enrenrum raja Concerts are actually letting the gen X know and enjoy the Great melodies of Raja. So a Fan following is slowly happening there. And now that Gautam movie is mostly gonna become a superhit, What would be the next great thing is, Raja to compose for Directors and/or Actors who are considered, or considered by, youth audience. Surya like.

In Directors, even if suppose a Balaji Sakthivel Kind of directors come, i don't think how much impact they will make.

Even a Misskin & Suseendran, instead of a Nandalala & ASK, had they come to raja for a Mugamoodi & Naan Mahaan alla, the whole story would have been different. This is what i am expecting to happen. A Director/Star who is felt youth, or being looked-up by youth and also a Director, whom Raja shud feel, has some sarakku on his mottamaadi.

Otherwise, we will end up with stuff like Dhoni, which, according to me, didnt succeed even to the levels of Nandalala & ASK audio.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

And this Mallu and Tollywood movies, they ain't gonna help or do any good for Raja in TFM Market. So No point discussing SRR or PAzhasiRaja. Those Loyalists will always come to Raja again but their success wont be felt at all here.

[Nerd]

Hit films like NEPV once in a while is OK. Since its GVM he would have pushed Raaja sir to do something *extra*. But I don't want Raaja to work for hardcore commercial films for the likes of ARM/KVAnand etc even if top stars are acting. No use of his creativity.

OTOH, scoring for films of great directors of this generation (Vetri/Myss/Kumararaja) - music will be God awesome, no two ways about it. I want THAT! If they become a hit, its a bonus.

Btw Dhoni - non starter. Very poor source material.

[jaiganes]

Hit films like NEPV once in a while is OK. Since its GVM he would have pushed Raaja sir to do something *extra*. But I don't want Raaja to work for hardcore commercial films for the likes of ARM/KVAnand etc even if top stars are acting. No use of his creativity.

OTOH, scoring for films of great directors of this generation (Vetri/Myss/Kumararaja) - music will be God awesome, no two ways about it. I want THAT! If they become a hit, its a bonus.

Btw Dhoni - non starter. Very poor source material.

see bolded name - andha aLavukku irreverence raasaavaala handle panna mudima?

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

sarakku uLLa director nnu therinjaa namma Raja poonthu veLaaduvaarunga! And Kumararaja's film itself will speak his talent!

There are talented directors both in Masala and Quality category. If likes of Kumararaja are of Quality creators, directors like Hari(to some extent) are Masala types. I am expecting both types shud go to Raja.

But for that, these directors shud believe Raja can give output as like 80s, for that thought to come into their minds, they shud either have some musical taste, or listen to albums like NEPV. After this album releases, I guess there will surely be some handful of these Directors who will think Raja will help their movie both commercially and musically, at same time, can give songs which can go sit in minds of youth

[SoftSword]

oru padattha vechae kumararaja'va nemba thookki nirutthuradhu avlo sariyaa padalai.. romba focus pannaama avara adutthu velai seyya uttu paappom...

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

He wrote dialog/screenplay(?) for that mokkai film Va Quater cutting. But then, AaranyaKaandam was too high than that. And adutha velai paaukkurathukku 1st he shud get producer! No signs of that till now!

[Nerd]

SS, onnu illeengOv, 2. He wrote Oram Po. Nallaa dialock ezhudhuvaapla. Also listen to the score in Aaranya Kaandam. Yuvan-E ipdeenaa, Raaja 100 times. Home ground vera..

And no he did not write that mokkai VaQC. He just wrote the songs :-)

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Oh! Actually i liked Oram Po, to certain extent! Btw, Va Quarter cutting, some sequence had resemblance with the Aaranya kaandam trailer! thatswhy i thot so

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

"இளைய"ராஜா என்ற பெயரில் ஒரு தனி கச்சேரி நடத்தனும். எந்தளவு யூத் பாடல்கள் ராஜா போட்டிருக்கிரார் என எடுத்துக்காட்டவே ஒரு தனி கன்சர்ட் ஆக இது இருக்கவேண்டும். மெலடி சாங்க்ஸ் குறைவாக, செம்ம பீட் டுடன் இருக்கும் ராஜா பாடல்களை, 80s 90s 00s மூன்று காலங்களிலிருந்தும் சமமாக எடுத்து, ஒரு கச்சேரி செய்யலாம். அந்த கன்சர்ட்டில், Strictly NO தத்துவம்! :lol:

இப்படி ஏதாவது செய்துகொண்டே இருக்கவேண்டும்.

[baroque]

yeah.. sakala,

let us kick start with VAANAM KEEZHEY VANDHAAL ENNA, ADA BOOMI MELEY PONAAL ENNA!

What a composition with pouring violin, drumming , female chorus & Bala's humming, amazing singing by S.P.B!:musicsmile:

[San_K]

Afro tribal style songs ellam vittudaathenga :)

[baroque]

ilamai kanavugal vizhiyil midhakkudhu idhayap paravaigal siragai virikkudhu....edhedho maarudhu en nenjam paadudhu...


Singer Karthik koottu pottura maattom!:grin:

adhaan..

paal pole pathinaru yenakkoru girl friend venum .... youthful nnu adhai kekkaranga!

we need to introduce Youthful IR!

[Gregorysab]

Read on facebook that Raaja & GVM are again in London. No idea why.

[raja_fan]

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150622372762951.387835.588232950&type=1

[SoftSword]

SS, onnu illeengOv, 2. He wrote Oram Po. Nallaa dialock ezhudhuvaapla. Also listen to the score in Aaranya Kaandam. Yuvan-E ipdeenaa, Raaja 100 times. Home ground vera..

And no he did not write that mokkai VaQC. He just wrote the songs :-)

i know that nerd...
i yam a fan of oram-po dialogs that AK...
AK is above average for me... and i 100% agree he has stuff...
but vetri, myss ellaam adhukkum mela prove pannirukkaanga illayaa.. like their second/third better than first maadhiri...

indha suseendhiran payalaala naan ipdi aagitenu nenakkiren...

[MumbaiRamki]

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150622372762951.387835.588232950&type=1

These pics were posted on March 24 ,..

One comment says "We were doing a film soundtrack for Ilayaraaja, a Tamil composer - I guess the south Indian version of Bollywood. The music was superb, really cool and actually some great stuff for the brass, though not all that many notes to play!"

And in this Fb page , we have the profiel pic as one with raaja :)

https://www.facebook.com/nick.newland?sk=wall

"Lovely to have seen Ilaiyaraaja, Director Gautham Vasudev Menon and Senthil Veeraasamy in London again this week - really looking forward to the release of the soundtrack in July! Safe flights home! Anglo Indian Music Productions " on Neethaane En Ponvasantham Movie [Official]'s timeline."

[Kimrep]

my friend saw GVM walking with ARR in Heathrow airport last week. looks like ARR is in london as well..

[Kimrep]

Also, he said he saw ARR sitting in a corner and practicing some song..

1 + 1 = ARR's version of "saindhu saindhu" is gonna rock!

[app_engine]

my friend saw GVM walking with ARR in Heathrow airport last week. looks like ARR is in london as well..

May be for "yOhan" or some other Gautam movie.

[Kimrep]

app_engine,
i was just kidding... :)

[SoftSword]

ippodhaan saaidhu saaindhu kekkaren..
mixed reaction... aahaa hey hey illainaa yuvan idha sogappaatta maatthiruppaapla... thankfully music sets the tune...
fulla kaettaa nalla irukkumnu nenakkiraen...

[Plum]

Kumararaja paththi theriyala. Myshkin - i yAm very interested. SuccessMaaran - not much hopes from him on music-appreciation-facilitation front. Samples so far are strongly underwhelming, including allowing BGM lifts, faux-madurai stuff from GVP(that Yathey Yathey refrain is the fakest outside Manirathnam movies set in Thirunelveli that I have heard) etc. Polladhavan = write off from music POV
Miskin sollungO - othukkaREn, he seems to have a good sense of how to use music(nondhalala - migh have refrained from recording 5 songs when it seemed like thre was no scope for them in the first draft of the screenplay itself. I mean, not that I saw the first draft but i cant imagine a first draft of that movie with scope for the 5 songs that Myskin extracted. But what he used, and what he gave to IR to score, he gave good source material as well as effective use of whatever songs he ended up using ). Even his other movies had decent BGM, and considering the same composer did horrendous stuff(sambo siva sambo in that dhaadikaaran movie) outside Myskin movies, it is fair to assume Myskin had decent inputs into the BGm of anjaadhe, Yudham Sei etc)

[suresh]

"I call it the Raja genre" - Baradwaj Rangan
http://baradwajrangan.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/i-call-it-the-raja-genre/

[SVN]

Great write-up by Mr Rangan. He has managed to extract the process of IR's music creation for this album from Goutham. Regardless of our reaction to Yuvan's song clip, this makes one look forward to the soundtrack with renewed optimism. Thanks for sharing Suresh.

[krish244]

GVM explaining how music of NEPV was made. You guys need to read it. Pretty interesting. GVM says, he got everything he wanted.

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/cinema/article3536499.ece

GVM is a hardcare guitar fan I guess. Yesterday, I watched VTV and songs/BGM was flourished with guitar!

thanks,

Krishnan

[Nerd]

1 + 1 = ARR's version of "saindhu saindhu" is gonna rock!
:lol: saainthu saainthu nee saayumbOdhu adadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

Plum - Avinga padaththula ellaam stuff irukkumE-nu sonnEn. GVP-yaala avLO dhaan mudiyum. Give the script to Raaja, he would have made those films even better.

[V_S]

Hats off to GVM. :notworthy: :clap: To be honest, I didn't like BR's introduction about Maestro, especially his 'dogged devotees' (really hate these words), even though he complimented well enough in conclusion (only after he listened to the samples). If Maestro has only handful of admirers and fans, how did GVM even know about Maestro that he is still composing? How would people throng to Nehru Stadium for his live concerts? How come he is still composing both for new generation of directors like Myskkin, Suseendran and also veterans like MTV, Bapu alike and also for Prakash Raj, Balki, Bala.

To me the whole interview looked like BR asking GVM in a tone, why did he go to him (vEra ALA illa), and the real thought I got was, 'he was not supposed to go to him at all kind of tone'. Unless you hear his compositions fully (post 90's), you should not decide about a composer, prematurely. After you hear his composition, you change your tone completely. That's what happens with public which I don't blame, but if it is from writers like BR, then it is unfortunate.

Only thing I would like to quote here is, 'poonai kaNNa moodina boologam irundidumaa enna'?

[wizzy]

V_S, Baddy is MSV fanboi so there :lol2:

[MumbaiRamki]

V_S, Baddy is MSV fanboi so there :lol2:

Nope - he is a big time fanboy of IR , in his own way !

[Shank]

Baddy loves music in general...of course, he is a fan of IR too, especially the early IR. That doesn't mean that he writes an interview like a fanboy. He has a job to do and a perspective to maintain. Some of it might not sound right to hard core fans like us. But I can categorically state that Baddy is an IR fan, having grown up in that period. Besides, I've known Baddy for 25 years now.

[V_S]

Shank,
I don't know if you read this introduction by BR.


There’s something Quentin Tarantino told Entertainment Weekly magazine about Martin Scorsese. “If I say [his] movies are getting kind of geriatric and everything, he can say, ‘F— you, man! I’m doing what I want to do, I’m following my muse,’ and he’s 100 per cent right. I’m in my church praying to my god and he’s in his church praying to his. There was a time we were in the same church, and I miss that.” That’s regrettably how I feel about much of Ilayaraja’s music today, and I think I speak for a fair number of his fans who worshipped the great man in the 1970s through the early 1990s. The congregation has shrunk to a cult, with only a handful of dogged devotees still keeping the faith. So when I heard that Gautham Vasudev Menon was working with him, I sat up. This is easily the most interesting development in Tamil film music in a while, for we usually hear of directors moving on to newer composers – the way many filmmakers, even the old-faithfuls like Bharathiraja, left Ilayaraja behind and latched on to younger talents – but we rarely, if ever, hear of someone setting course in the opposite direction, a today’s-generation filmmaker seeking out a senior composer. It’s like Mani Ratnam choosing to work with MS Viswanathan on Agni Natchatiram, for instance, and my interest in meeting Menon was to investigate both the reason for this collaboration and the ensuing process. The complete transcript follows.

There is a big difference in saying he IS a fan and he WAS a fan. If you already said, 'especially, the early IR', you always tend to fall into 'WAS a fan'. Also without any statistical evidence or census, you cannot claim that 'The congregation has shrunk to a cult, with only a handful of dogged devotees still keeping the faith'. How you do know for sure to state that? I am not even talking as a fan, even he may be right, but unless he is sure, he cannot state that which may not give the true picture. This is how the media has been falsely projecting him for the past 20 years. I want that to stop immediately. Even I would say for other composers as well, as we don't know for sure.

If he is in his church and others in their, does he not know what today's people like? He knows it but he wants to give them only the best. It does not mean he does not update himself on the current music scenario.

His analogy comparing Agni Natchatiram with MSV is plain horrible. Is that a perspective? How is it so difficult to understand this. We are talking about a composer who is in the market after 20 years having (falsely identified as thrown out of the market just after 92) and open to any director and supporting their beliefs 100%. If Bharathiraja or Mani left him, he stopped composing? Nobody else is approaching him? Why do they still approach him? You are in total dis-belief after hearing that sample from GVM. What does it say? You cannot believe the same Ilaiyaraaja (whom you believed 20 years back, not anymore) has done it again after 20 years? He has been doing for the past 20 years consistently, not just for GVM. We know that. Every music lover knows this. You don't have to be a fan to understand this. Unless you are interested, you cannot see that. I am not saying you have to be his fan even today, but please don't write him off. The introduction clearly states he is sitting back up, just because some new director has approached someone whom he is not suppose to approach. That's not Ilaiyaraaja's fault, yours, ours.

[Sureshs65]

V_S,

freeya vidunga :)

BR loves the Raja of early days for sure but he is also in the ' I am a modern man' mode. For him. Raja is old and that comes out every time he writes about Raja. He has to show himself as someone in touch with 'waerld music' and all. So you will find him quite happy with Rahman, Amot Trivedi and likes. And also with the 'new age' Hindi directors. So his stand is , "Raja was gold, but he now old. I, of course, am a modern critic and have no time for his recent output". When he refused to acknowledge the music of films like 'Virumandi' and 'PazhassiRaja', you know he is instead of being a modern critic, is unfortunately living in the past when it comes to Raja, refusing to see the beauty that Raja brings to his music nowadays.

[V_S]

Well said Suresh ji! I felt Raja and music fans does not deserve such an introduction on Maestro. Thanks for understanding my views.

[Shank]

V_S, I'm not going to sit here and defend every word that Baddy wrote. I was just trying to give some perspective on Baddy the person. I did read the interview and can understand how you feel. I don't blame you, I might feel the same too. Even Suresh65 and Plum know how I keep imploring Baddy to listen to Raja's latter day output. But that's okay, everybody has their opinions. Even if Baddy doesn't get it, it doesn't mean he is not a fan. Also, things have changed, undeniably. Its not the 80s anymore. Raja's style has changed as well. And it's okay. For fans like us, he is and will always be the raja...that's all matters.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Shank, while i agree to the ground realities, things are surely different now. Yes it is not 80s but it is not 00s too!

Yes, Starting from 95, ARR wave started getting Peak. Around the end of Century, many transitions happened from this camp to that. Also some new comers went straight there. Actually, internet wasn't as popular that time, as it is now. no facebook, twitter, and the penultimate blogs on Raja which does excellent analysis. I guess Raja is more popular now than the mid 90s to 05....Becos, now, there is no great wave from anybody incl ARR. Inspite of other MD's being super successful in getting best-of-best combos and also nice commercial viabilities, there is a feeling which is more stronger now than before -> Olden days are golden and Raja's Peak Days were Platinum. Wide amount of youngsters themselves nowadays appreciate and listen to RajaClassics and Rare Hits. He is more discussed, praised, analyzed, listened now. This is a way is surely the failure of the Current gen MD also, not just becos of Raja's monstrous quality Albums of 80s 90s. They were prevailing for 30 years. Accessibility of Raja's large body of work easily is also a very imp. factor. Everyday youtube is getting filled with rare Raja numbers.

So, now, when Raja attends a function now, the quantity of the (much deserving) praise is very high. Concerts too are slightly frequenting. We can in a way say that, as a Raja fan, we are in somewhat best, Interesting times. Inspite of Raja not having touched the 1C mark(rarely happens) but still he is still getting quality offers like SriRamaRajyam, PazhasiRaja, NEPV etc..In this, NEPV is surely unique offer. As per the interview, Raja himself has said to Gautam that "Intha Sankalpam(alliance) nallaa irukku, continue aagumaannu theriyala" which means he is interested! He don't say this to many directors.

So what i say is, even if NEPV kind of albums doesn't happen, but Raja gets pretty decent ones like Azhagrsaamiyin Kudhirai, Dhoni(the offer, not the same director!), and another side, he does concerts at many cities(which is already coming up) this is surely more than enough to keep the talk going (though its not enuf for HC fans like us) Anyways, future surely looks interesting :)

[Shank]

Vallavar, I agree with what you said. Also the number of village/Madurai films that invariably have a reference to Raja is proof that he is definitely of interest to current gen. There's no question.i guess what irks fans like us is that when it gets spoken as a revival of interest or comeback for Raja....since for us, he never went away. I'm just hoping that he gets the right projects, the right directors who can inspire him. I once met him for a full 3 hours back in 2001 and I gifted him a silver violin (gift piece). He was so simple and kind. I even have an autograph from him that simply says " Iraivanadi Ilayaraja". That is the happiest moment in my life.

[V_S]

Shank,
Thanks for understanding my concerns. No one expected Raja would survive in the music industry after say 95 or 96. Since many migrated and started enjoying music from others, they blindly believed that Raja does not exist in the music industry any more. In fact they don't want to hear anything from him. The reason for their thinking was since it happened the same way previously, that if a new music director comes in and hogs the limelight, the existing one has to fade and go out. Since it has happened mostly (and was the history), they expected the same during 90s. Since it did/does not happen, they believed it happened. To justify their belief, they put a fence (their changed music taste) around them that Raja does not create music the way they want (many others think that Raja does not create music at all nowadays). Whenever they hear anything from him, they are already prejudiced that it is not the same old Raja, before even listening to his music. Even if they listen, they don't come out of their fences with open heart. They already shut their fences/ears. Somehow this is irritating them that Raja is still around. Now since they could not ignore him like they did in 90s, as he is often in the news, they have to show off their dis-taste in some way or other. Now they could not go either way. They are caught up in a web. Only thing we have to think deeply is, why Raja's music is still around and who is the reason for all this? Just this question will answer all your doubts.

[K]

Shank,
Thanks for understanding my concerns. No one expected Raja would survive in the music industry after say 95 or 96. Since many migrated and started enjoying music from others, they blindly believed that Raja does not exist in the music industry any more. In fact they don't want to hear anything from him. The reason for their thinking was since it happened the same way previously, that if a new music director comes in and hogs the limelight, the existing one has to fade and go out. Since it has happened mostly (and was the history), they expected the same during 90s. Since it did/does not happen, they believed it happened. To justify their belief, they put a fence (their changed music taste) around them that Raja does not create music the way they want (many others think that Raja does not create music at all nowadays). Whenever they hear anything from him, they are already prejudiced that it is not the same old Raja, before even listening to his music. Even if they listen, they don't come out of their fences with open heart. They already shut their fences/ears. Somehow this is irritating them that Raja is still around. Now since they could not ignore him like they did in 90s, as he is often in the news, they have to show off their dis-taste in some way or other. Now they could not go either way. They are caught up in a web. Only thing we have to think deeply is, why Raja's music is still around and who is the reason for all this? Just this question will answer all your doubts.


Super super super...................

[K]

Shank,
Thanks for understanding my concerns. No one expected Raja would survive in the music industry after say 95 or 96. Since many migrated and started enjoying music from others, they blindly believed that Raja does not exist in the music industry any more. In fact they don't want to hear anything from him. The reason for their thinking was since it happened the same way previously, that if a new music director comes in and hogs the limelight, the existing one has to fade and go out. Since it has happened mostly (and was the history), they expected the same during 90s. Since it did/does not happen, they believed it happened. To justify their belief, they put a fence (their changed music taste) around them that Raja does not create music the way they want (many others think that Raja does not create music at all nowadays). Whenever they hear anything from him, they are already prejudiced that it is not the same old Raja, before even listening to his music. Even if they listen, they don't come out of their fences with open heart. They already shut their fences/ears. Somehow this is irritating them that Raja is still around. Now since they could not ignore him like they did in 90s, as he is often in the news, they have to show off their dis-taste in some way or other. Now they could not go either way. They are caught up in a web. Only thing we have to think deeply is, why Raja's music is still around and who is the reason for all this? Just this question will answer all your doubts.


Super super super...................

[Plum]

I dont think Baradwaj has a conscious agenda. However, I do see that he has sort of peer pressure to praise Bollywood new age cinema to the sky and pull down anything else. He wasnt much enamoured with CKum and S2006 either. I wouldnt call him a MSV fan either - I doubt if he knows more than the obligatory standard numbers of MSV known in a DING household. Basically, Baradwaj Rangan sits in Besant Nagar, and expects everyone else, everything else in the world to come to him. His perspective is purely Besant Nagar driven, and while I do love his music reviews, which are usually spot-on and well articulated, I dont have much respect for the man's intellectual capacity as a movie reviewer and social commenter. He has very limited perspective - and what is more, is proud of it, and feels that he doesnt have to make efforts to broaden it. There are better movie reviewers here - P_R, and equa, for two, and Camfli, the man who replaced him in Indian Express - and if he posted the sort of filter cofeee tripe here in HUB, the likes of Geno will rip him apart.

[app_engine]

V_Sji,

:clap:
:clap:
:clap:

indha bloggers thollai thAnga mudiyalaiyappA :-(

[KV]

For all my initial skepticism about this album (not doubt over Raja's ability, but his 'choices' in certain aspects), I must admit that I'm already convinced and supremely confident that this is gonna be something special. I don't mean to make this sound like some 'eat that, suckers!' thing, but Raaja will have the last laugh on july 1st (or whenever the funk it releases eventually).
v_sji, I understand your kOvam. light theeskondi, sir. :)

[Sureshs65]

I think Plum hit the nail on the head there. His writing on music is good but his understanding of music, I have my own doubts. Especially when he refuses to acknowledge some of the recent Raja's works with 'didn't work for me' stuff.

app,

Saw your posts in the other thread as well. That is the power of a brand!!! BR is a big brand nowadays and once you are a brand, truth be damned. There are enough fans who will believe whatever he says. At the same time I must also mention that with so many 'non actors' in Telugu and Tamil having fans who give them a great 'opening', people like BR having a fan base is a healthy trend. Atleast he knows how to write nice prose !!!

[MumbaiRamki]

Guys ,
This s from his blog - he has a fair statement . Do give a pleasant read .

Aakarsh: Of course Kooda varuviya is lovely, as lovely a recent (as in, IR’s post-synth-era) tune as Enna solli paaduvadho. And I did write a fairly involved piece on the music of Naan Kadavul. Whenever I keep talking about his earlier work, people seem to think (to use your words) that “his best still lie in the past.”
I am not interested in that kind of categorical judgement at all. I am only interested in the music. (Though in my profession, while writing about movies or music, a bit of judgement does slip out.)
I listen to a song a bunch of times. (You cannot listen to a song just once and dismiss it.) If there’s something to it, I take it. Or I leave it. Like I love SPB’s singing in Jagadananda (Sri Rama Rajyam) — the way his voice subsides into a gentle ebb in that pallavi line with maa jeevaname… is astounding. But I don’t like the sharpness of the sound in the instruments. The tabla sounds positively metallic. So I focus on the voice and the beautiful way the tune has been shaped. This is the way I have always listened to music, even in the 1980s. (It’s not as if I lull myself to sleep with songs from Manaivi Solle Mandhiram.)
But there is an element of nostalgia that shades things from the past, not just Raja songs but everything — and that the new songs cannot have, so I naturally talk of present-day Raja output somewhat dispassionately, without the “affection” that comes from listening to music at a young, impressionable age.

And as you say, the tools. Listen to the opening lines of Oram po from Senkathu Boomiyile and the similar portions from Ponnu Oorukku Pudhusu. It’s not just nostalgia there. The sound is worlds apart, and I prefer the former. This is just so sharp. The effect is even more pronounced in the lovely Kaathiruppen, which is exactly like a late-1980s tune from a Ramarajan movie. The tabla rhythm. The clean segues to the interludes. You can almost imagine P Sushila singing and the song picturised on a dhavani-draped Rekha. But the “sound” is so different. Why is it so sharp? And why this voice?
Like I’ve always said, these choices are not his problem but mine. He is the creator. I am just the listener. But at times, as Tarantino felt, I wish we still were in the same church. At the same time I realise that people cannot stop evolving.

The other thing, we live in a country where if you don’t don’t praise someone to the skies it’s assumed that you’re damning him. If you don’t sing bhajans exalting a person, then you’re a rabid hater. I find that attitude baffling.

Am I crazy about current-day Raja? No. But do I hate his work now? Again, the answer is no. Like always, I like some songs very much, some songs not so much, some songs not at all. (And Raja made some real bummers in the 1980s as well.) And this is the case with all music directors, old and new.

[Gregorysab]

I havent read many music reviews of BR. Read just a few and I do not know about the degree of his liking for raaja's music. I too found the introduction weird (Mani going to MSV for AN comparison) but i ignored it. I felt the questions were good. Contrary to what some thin, I did not feel that the tone of the interview was "Why raaja?", although that was the first question. Someone felt that hubbers here would have done better interview. Perhaps. Thats because the way some of us listen to music is such. All our thoughts, that form when we are listening to some raaja music, collectively arrange themselves in our mind, which we process to share here and it is from those thoughts that our so called "better questions" emanate, if at all we get to interview him. But none of us here have access to GVM. Like Shank said, BR has a job to do and he has to ask certain kind of questions. Within the limitations, I think, BR stretched enough and asked questions that are curious enough to the fans.

And as for the what BR likes, as Mumbai Ramki rightly said, he has a fair point. I asked BR if he listened to recent Raaja output and he replied. To each his own. Just because he admires Rahman, Amit Trivedi and he does not have too many favourites in new Raaja, it does not mean that he is not a raaja fan. Just that he has his own favourites, as cited by him. To each his own. nothing wrong in it.

[Sureshs65]

Kamal,

I honestly don't have an issue whether BR is a Raja fan or not. In a very strict sense, I would never want to identify myself as a 'fan' :)

My only grouse is not about his liking. He has every right to like what he wants. But he is also a critic. In which case it is expected that he points to some outstanding works and make people listen to good work done. (Rather than you asking him about some of the good work done!!!) It may be happening in other cases but not in case of Raja. The way he approaches other music directors is quite different from how he approaches Raja. In case of Raja, he has only a couple of routine defense: One, I don't like the sound. Second, it didn't work for me. I was not surprised by the answers he gave you. As I said I fully respect his liking as a listener. It is only when you take him as a critic that you have trouble with those statements. I would have rather had him pointing to all those songs you gave in his blog sometime earlier. To make people listen to those lovely songs and say, "Hey, forget for a minute the recording technique. There is lot of good music coming from Raja. Listen to it." Now, for me that would have been the critic's primary job. After having pointed it out, had he gone hammer and tongs on recording techniques and limitations of the singer, then it would have been good. Unfortunately, the way he writes, many a times gives the impression that the songs are not worth listening to because of recording techniques and singers !!!

[Plum]

Suresh - Beeyar has a different take on his role as a 'critic' - he believes he is not out there to give recommendations or "stars". Reading through him for years, i get the feeling that basically, his problem is that he is a failed "original" writer. That is, he has an extraordinary facility for expression and articulation - except that, he needs some skeleton of a creation to hang his articulation around. He is forever in search of a beautiful object that he can talk about in his brilliant style. What happens is that depending on his mood and particular state of his creativity "on that day", he tends to see non-existent virtues in unworthy creations "on that day of review" and sometimes misses out on actual beauty(Disclaimer on beauty and beholder notwithstanding).

As a result, he is a prime candidate for inconsistency in thoughts, logic, rationale and opinions. This is where his laziness - reading up several books on Cinema and other topics notwithstanding - in shaping his opinions lets him down badly. I realise the irony in me saying it for I suffer from the same affliction.

I have sort of settled into viewing him as "how beautifully" he expresses his opinion than the opinion itself.

[baroque]

thanks MRamki!

It is nice to read, though I didn't read his earlier column or interview with GVM.

See.. yesterday after San_K pointed out, I listened to Azhagi songs which I totally forgot, recalled I enjoyed them with visual. I need to rent out the DVD today to experience it again. I think Parthiban did visual good.

it happens you know..

nice to know The Great Baradwaj Rangan is likeVinatha sometimes!:-D (OK! He has more knowledge about music, movies and art!)

some not working rasa, not working... going back to SRI DEVI EN VAAZHVIL VANDHAL... with fondness and admiration, still longingly looking forward to your future albums!

Ranga! We are not alone! Neraiya peru erukka nambalai maadhiri!http://www.mayyam.com/talk/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[Sureshs65]

Plum,

You are spot on. I didn't think of the 'failed writer' bit but that sounds consistent. He writes lovely prose, no doubt but when he wastes it on a film like 'Rockstar' (which according to many who saw it was a terrible 'mokkai') you wonder about his role as a critic. Anyway, as I said somewhere else I am happy that people like BR have a decent number of readers and fans. Atleast it is a positive reflection given the 'fans' which our film 'stars' have !!!

[V_S]

Thanks K, app, KV. :smile:

[Shank]

Suresh, see that's one of the problems. You say he wasted good words on Rockstar and have a problem with him being a critic. From your words, I gather you haven't seen the film personally. But you are making a conclusion. To me, a critic doesn't have to be making a popular opinion. I like the fact that he makes his opinion, not the people's opinion. It's your choice to take it or read it like " nice prose". I'm perfectly fine with Plum's stand...it's his opinion on BR's writing, not something he concluded from what others said. You can have opinion on his merits as a critic and what you think is a critic's job. That's okay...you have a right to it but it doesn't have to be the universal opinion. To each his own. That's all. Please don't take this as though I'm siding with one person. I'm just giving my perspective on it. Besides you know me, so you won't take this in the wrong sense.

[Shank]

For that matter, I did see Rockstar and did like many things in it. But that's just my perspective. Please don't see me a failed movie fan :-)

[raja_fan]

// I wanted to be on a certain wavelength with Raja sir, so I started picking up books about reading music and studying music. That’s what I’m doing right now. Not that I want to become a music director, pose with a guitar in my hand… //

// He said, “Namma sankalpam nalla irukku. Idhu continue aaguma-nu theriyala…” //

Doesn't this sound promising ?
Reading these, one gets a feeling that both IR and Gowtham might want to continue their association in the future :)

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

May be after few films, I don't see any movies in near future! Though Raja (himself!) signals (which is rare of rarest!) I don't see Gatuam has any immediate plans.. Lets see!

[Gregorysab]

Kamal,

I honestly don't have an issue whether BR is a Raja fan or not. In a very strict sense, I would never want to identify myself as a 'fan' :)

My only grouse is not about his liking. He has every right to like what he wants. But he is also a critic. In which case it is expected that he points to some outstanding works and make people listen to good work done. (Rather than you asking him about some of the good work done!!!) It may be happening in other cases but not in case of Raja. The way he approaches other music directors is quite different from how he approaches Raja. In case of Raja, he has only a couple of routine defense: One, I don't like the sound. Second, it didn't work for me. I was not surprised by the answers he gave you. As I said I fully respect his liking as a listener. It is only when you take him as a critic that you have trouble with those statements. I would have rather had him pointing to all those songs you gave in his blog sometime earlier. To make people listen to those lovely songs and say, "Hey, forget for a minute the recording technique. There is lot of good music coming from Raja. Listen to it." Now, for me that would have been the critic's primary job. After having pointed it out, had he gone hammer and tongs on recording techniques and limitations of the singer, then it would have been good. Unfortunately, the way he writes, many a times gives the impression that the songs are not worth listening to because of recording techniques and singers !!!

Hmm..fair enough! I think your statement "the way he approaches music" pretty much defines is school of thought perhaps. Yes, it would be good if he ocassionally pours out some words on raaja's recent works but perhaps he is a fan of raaja's works till early 90s only. I agree that as a critic, it would be good if he gives a chance to output of any era dispassionately and then have an opinion on it. But then, looks like he is not completely out of touch. His replies to his post tell me that he does listen to new output. But may be he cant relate to this new raaja. May be he is still in that Raaja music which had extensive string arrangements topped with VS Narasimhan pieces etc. I know so many people who somehow cannot relate to Raaja's new output. They fall at Raaja's feet when you talk about 80s songs but they cannot relate to new output. I dont know why and how that happens. But it happens and we just have to accept it may be :-)

[Sureshs65]

Shank,

Ofcourse I know you well enough and so no question of taking what you write in the wrong sense at all. Moreover you are one of the most level headed person who writes here. So it is always a pleasure to discuss things with you.

I agree with you and I also want the critic to not necessarily be in tune with the popular opinion. Infact there are many works of art which got their recognition fairly late and that was only due to the critics relentlessly pointing to its merits. And the critic here plays a very important role. Unfortunately I don't watch many films but going by what I heard from people who have decent taste in movies and also like BR's writings, what he wrote for 'Rockstar' was probably good prose. Ofcourse, not having seen the movie, I could be completely wrong.

Again, I reiterate, I would love the critic to be against popular opinion. I wish it had happened in Raja's case as well :D

[Sureshs65]

Kamal,

As you rightly point out, there are enough and more people who refuse to budge from "Raja's greatest was 80s and whatever you throw at us, we still believe 80s was the best." In other words they want the 80s sound _only_. But Raja has deliberately moved away from that to the 90s sound, then the late 90s sound and the newer sounds in 2000s. To be fair, BRangan admits he does like some of the songs he heard. There are others who will not even admit it and they will be huge fans of Raja !!

[Plum]

Shank - the failed writer bit came from me. It is a theory I have formed after careful deliberation. To be honest, I am a fan of BR's writing - there are very few who can write like that. And definitely not anyone else who writes on topics of my interest. I also believe in his integrity and honesty - I don't think he has any agenda to put down later Raja works deliberately. I do believe he is reacting honestly to the actual impact of later Raja works on him. This is so different from certain people who have had a constant agenda to degrade Raja's music and his character - they can be recognised by their quoting of Braja Bchandar Mrathnam Vmuthu Gvwaran and co. and Raja's tiffs with them as solely products of Raja's character. These are the ones with agenda - and GV actually I believe planted these stories in media post thalapathy after the tiff with Raja. Just consider this, till date Raja hasn't spoken ill of any of them whereas BRaja, GV and Bchandar not to mention vanavasa kavignar of 80s have tried to debase his character. The honourable exception is Mrathnam who hasn't resorted to such cheap tricks. Brangan Is no way related to any of these kinds of fellers.

[Sureshs65]

Plum,

Fully agree with you there. I don't think BR has any agenda whatsoever against Raja.

[Devaraagam]

Suresh65, I agree that BR does not have any agenda and he puts his points un bias with current situation and current trend but only thing disturbed me as IR admirer that by giving example like MR going to MSV and good that it was edited in the final output.

[genesis]

"I call it the Raja genre" - Baradwaj Rangan
http://baradwajrangan.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/i-call-it-the-raja-genre/

Looks like a movie promo targeting CD sales. It is waste of time to give too much importance to this article.

After seeing the hype created over many IR movies (Nandhalala for example) in the past few years here in this forum, I am keeping my expectations low!!

[genesis]

Here is what's going to happen...

1. Most of the HCIR fans going to declare NEPV is the best GVM album after few hours of release.
2. Since it is a GVM movie, it is going to have decent opening and CD sales. (HCIR fans responsible for 5% extra sales?)
3. If the movie does well in the box office, the songs are going to get some air time.
4. If the movie does well and the songs are good, the songs are going to get more air time. HCIR fans going to jump from earth to sky with joy and explain how IR reversed GVM's deteriorating career!!
5. If the movie does not do well in box office, the songs are not going to get much air time. HCIR fans will blame GVM and move to hype IR's next "big" project!!

Please note: I have not said anything bad about IR!!

[Nerd]

^ This is one super mokkai post.

[AravindMano]

genesis - any thoughts on what will those ever annoying Not-So-Hard-Core-Raja-Fans-But-Still-Fans say or how they will jump to sky or dive into deep blue sea?

Note - I haven't said anything bad about IR.

[AravindMano]

Ever since this project was announced, the reactions from various quarters are :notworthy:

[app_engine]

Revisited BR's blog to check the comments (that have swollen from 20 something this morning to 40+ this evening) :-)

Vijay (with capital V, I guess it's V_Sji) is in a nice dialog with BRangan.

vijay (I guess vijayr of the hub) has some interesting posts there as well :-)

[Sureshs65]

app,

I have also posted my comments. It will come up after BR approves it.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Chummaa Athiruthilla!! :rotfl:

[KV]

Oh, btw, among the several precious gems that GVM has in his trove now (like making-of videos, conversations, photos, etc) are the demo recordings. Imagine songs in the Man’s voice with just guitars and acoustic drums keeping company. That’s almost a bloody unplugged album you got there!

I think releasing demo tapes is not uncommon among music bands abroad. I’ve listened to some stuff from Megadeth and they are quite awesome – raw, unpolished songs; very little sound-engg and volume adjustments; no external loops/sounds - it’s like getting a peek at the core of ideas, that can be thrilling for keen listeners (and which could subsequently help in understanding the embellishments in the final cut in a better way).

Can someone please coax GVM and talk him into releasing all these? Totalla varanum. Noorani saddhi maadhiri. One mega collector’s edition. Naanga support panrom saar! GVM for prez! :yes:

[SoftSword]

:lol:

[app_engine]

app,

I have also posted my comments. It will come up after BR approves it.

I think yours is the gObi masAlA post :-)

:clap:

BRangan should not think lowly about his readers (as dimwits who cannot understand illustrations - explaining in detail poo-puippam-idhazh-makarandhachchErkkai etc...avaru explanation'kku vijayr sir anga kai vERa thattuRaru :lol2:).

First of all, BRangan made a provacative opening, in tossing all current-IR-admirers as a cult (that too a dwindling one) :mad: Then added moLaku to that injury by bringing a "not-out-IR" down to the level of "really-out-MSV".

The reactions from IRF's are truly subdued & mixed. (For e.g. Akarsh praises the interview ; V_Sji gives him samples / proof to support why IR is still in the reckoning / game).

idhukkappuRam vijayr vandhu 'ivanungaLa thiruththavE mudiyAthu'nnu oru comment vERa. And Aravind / Kiru, do you guys still feel hubbers are too harsh on BRangan?

Looking from a different perspective, if people are nitpicking / critique-ing a blog post, should not the blogger get elated? That his writing is getting analyzed / dissected / probed like holy writings? He should actually enjoy the nitpicks (and not toss such nitpickers as dumb fellows who cannot understand a simile)!

[app_engine]

Is it not funny that another "cult" that recently gave BGM award to IR (NA for PR) gave a similar award to BRangan himself a few years back :lol:

And the same "cult" gave two more awards to lady singers, singing under IR's baton (pAttuchcholli & mayil pOla) in the new millennium :wink:

[app_engine]

Beware!

Much like some ahankArikaL dismissing IR as 'field-out' / 'ahankAri' etc, now BRangan (and his abimAnees) are dangerously poised to start another propaganda, i.e. one of dismissing current-IRF's as "thirundhavE thirundhAdha dwindling-cult followers, dimwits who can't understand metaphors, deaf-fans who insist upon writers to do pooja at rAsA's altar etc etc ".

This is not something easy to identify (as in the case of shAji / chAru kind of blogs with a clear and open agenda) though the condescending tone is not too difficult to discern :mad:

Am I glad sanity prevails at least at the hub :-)

[genesis]

I just loved vijayr posts at the blog...... miss him in the forum!!

Suresh65 - How can you say MSV's musical prowess had declined in 1988? AFAIK, MSV was making decent music until 1986. IR just dominated the market with his quality and speed. Compared to IR of 80s, no MD in the 90s/2000s dominated TFM. ARR was at the top, but I do not think he did more than 5 movies in a year. So, there is lot of space for others including IR. When ARR was at the top, there are many others like Deva, Vidhyasagar, Harris Jeyaraj were able to work on decent number of movies.

So it is not MSV lacked skill, but IR did not leave much room for anybody else. Please don't get me started on how IR lost his monopoly (all the answers are right there in GVM's words!!)

[Plum]

-deleted-

[app_engine]

I just loved vijayr posts at the blog...... miss him in the forum!!

I have no problem with people 'moving on', 'not liking recent IR output', 'being objective music listeners' 'preferring 70s-80s' etc.

To some extent, even I'm one (though I like a few songs of IR from recent times, especially MFM).

The trouble is branding those people who love current music of IR as unredeemable :shock:

That's unhealthy! I think BRangan too should take part of the blame to allow that 'ivanunga' comment (In any case, can the musical sensibilities of those who love current music of IR be any "worse" than those who love current music of HJ / GVP / YSR? :shock:)

[genesis]

I have no problem with people 'moving on', 'not liking recent IR output', 'being objective music listeners' 'preferring 70s-80s' etc.

To some extent, even I'm one (though I like few songs of IR from recent times, especially MFM).

The trouble is branding those people who love current music of IR as unredeemable :shock:

That's unhealthy! I think BRangan too should take part of the blame to allow that 'ivanunga' comment (In any case, can the musical sensibilities of those who love current music of IR be any "worse" than those who love current music of HJ / GVP / YSR? :shock:)

The "opposite camp" does the same thing or even worse app_engine. Just because someone does not like all of IR's recent songs (even though they love his 70s/80s/most 90s), brand them as IR haters. There have been number of times my sanity has been questioned in this forum....

[Plum]

-deleted-

[Plum]

-deleted-

[genesis]

deleted.

[MelHarmony]

NEPV is going to a hit for sure. because this is declared to be a musical.....It has been long time since IR has done an outright musical based film. Recall Mohan days when in many films he would be playing a singer or kamal movies which were musical based. Was just hearing Raajapaarvai BGM and suddenly got this thought.. His music has always been to the point and not isolated from the movie subject.....NEPV is for sure going to be a hit....Any comments?

[baroque]

MALAYALAM - SOORYAN is a singer based film for him :)

earlier IVAN - female singer based film. Sudha Ragunadhan worked for IR!

PON MEGALAI songs are classical, a teaching composition by Bombay Jayashree in RAG NATTAI - UNAI THEDUM RAGAM IDHU......
I don't know about the movie!

yeah... they are all INDIAN CLASSICAL SONGS!

[SoftSword]

plum... deleted...
cha miss aayiduche...

pm pannunganu kooda kekkamudiyala... too lazy to clear the filled inbox... :(

[Devaraagam]

MALAYALAM - SOORYAN is a singer based film for him :)

PON MEGALAI songs are classical, a teaching composition by Bombay Jayashree in RAG NATTAI - UNAI THEDUM RAGAM IDHU......
I don't know about the movie!


PON MEGALAI is not a musical subject but director makes ensured that all songs are classical based between sisters (one song is normal kuthu type.

Note: this movie got released only in internet :)

[Gregorysab]

PON MEGALAI is not a musical subject but director makes ensured that all songs are classical based.

Note: this movie got released only in internet



Director of Padithurai... are you listening? Please release!

[layman10]

Director of Padithurai... are you listening? Please release!

Aakarsh, sorry to blow your bubble. Padithurai is dropped. Suka announced it in his blog a few weeks back. (may be it was a talked in tamil, you may have not seen it).

[baroque]

appadiyaa... enga local grocery storeley ella padam DVDs vandhudum, I have never seen this movie title in their shelf.:)

[Sureshs65]

genesis,

I had already posted a response to your post in BR's blog. For the record here is what I wrote.

"Honestly, you believe MSV’s prowess hadn’t declined by 1988? I am as big a fan of MSV’s music as anyone else but I have to accept that MSV in 1988 was not there in the picture at all in any language, musically or commercially. And it was not just because Raja dominated. If we check the number of movies that Shankar Ganesh did during those times, I am sure we will be surprised!!!"

Till around mid 80s I had debated with my friend and later room mate as to why MSV was greater than Raja. I was such a fan of MSV that I definitely did not want to concede an inch. I still remain a great fan of MSV but I am very convinced that by 1986 MSV was no more a factor to consider musically. I would say the same for K V Mahadevan in Telugu. His powers had also diminished. (And I did write two huge articles about KVM and his music for Solvanam.) So looking at it dispassionately, MSV's musical powers had definitely declined and by 1988 he was out of the field for sure. As I said, there were lot of movies which were done by people like Shankar Ganesh. So we cannot say Raja pushed MSV out. If it was so, Shankar Ganesh wouldn't have scored for so many movies.

[Plum]

-deleted with warning-

[genesis]

Suresh - As a music lower I understand you hold MSV and KVM in high esteem. But most of the HCIR fans got offended because "IR HAS BEEN COMPARED TO MSV" - That's blasphemy to them. And they issued an immediate fatwa against the poor writer(BR). Many of HCIR fans do think MSV is great, but he can not be compared with IR. If IR is god, they hold MSV and KVM as demi-gods, that's all!!

[jaiganes]

Suresh - As a music lower I understand you hold MSV and KVM in high esteem. But most of the HCIR fans got offended because "IR HAS BEEN COMPARED TO MSV" - That's blasphemy to them. And they issued an immediate fatwa against the poor writer(BR). Many of HCIR fans do think MSV is great, but he can not be compared with IR. If IR is god, they hold MSV and KVM as demi-gods, that's all!!
nice twisting of facts..
If someone compares Raaja to MSV or KVM - it is only a matter of pride for any IR fan - for they are geniuses who created mammoth songs like "Paattum naane" and "Malarndhum malaraadha" - now what ppl took objection to was when GVM turning to IR being compared to Mani turning to MSV and the comparative phases in their respective career - Mani while doing Agni * and GVM for NEPV (It is mani fans who should take offence for GVM to be likened to their idols). Because BR reckons that MSV was finished when Agni * was being done and he cleverly tries to imply the same with Raaja of present day. Broad painting stroke making every spot on the canvas drenched... Personally - I dont care if someone makes all these comparisons they want (-as everything is an opinion) - for what I gained from it was GVM's approach to working with IR - that is the takeaway - If the songs turn out to be worth the hype - then other directors have a nice tutorial on how to be prepared when engaging some one like Raaja otherwise - it is all about nothing.

[genesis]

jaiganes,

I think BR's comparison is appropriate - If you say GVM is new Mani then IR is the new MSV. Yes, I understand IR is still active but MSV wasn't. But I do not think there was any one else to compare. It is not me, but HCIR fans who are twisting the comparison: they are adding totally different attribute into the equation to place IR higher. They do not openly say what I said above, but that's how I interpret it.

Suresh - I do not accept IR did leave some space for other MDs - Yes there was SG, but he was in the 'low-budget" fringe market. All big production houses, top heros, top directors, mid level heros and mid level directors were with IR. It is not true for ARR or anyone else.

[layman10]

jaiganes,

I think BR's comparison is appropriate - If you say GVM is new Mani then IR is the new MSV. Yes, I understand IR is still active but MSV wasn't. But I do not think there was any one else to compare. It is not me, but HCIR fans who are twisting the comparison: they are adding totally different attribute into the equation to place IR higher. They do not openly say what I said above, but that's how I interpret it.

Suresh - I do not accept IR did leave some space for other MDs - Yes there was SG, but he was in the 'low-budget" fringe market. All big production houses, top heros, top directors, mid level heros and mid level directors were with IR. It is not true for ARR or anyone else.

The comparison itself was twisted, no one has to be HC to say it. GM like directors have already has been using IR, his creative output in past 3,4 years is unparalleled in terms music to any current MDs or any senior MDs was in their extended careers.

[V_S]

But I do not think there was any one else to compare. It is not me, but HCIR fans who are twisting the comparison: they are adding totally different attribute into the equation to place IR higher. They do not openly say what I said above, but that's how I interpret it.
Comparison'E koodathunannen. That was my biggest concern. Leave them alone. If you still want to compare, compare correctly, that is my next concern. No one is twisting or under estimating anyone. As I repeated many times, just that article should have started with the interview and ended with that, no confusions. Unnecessary confusions/embarrasment caused.


Suresh - I do not accept IR did leave some space for other MDs -
Why don't you credit IR for that. If he didn't leave space, that is his credit, but you have to create space even there. How did ARR create space for himself during 92 and further and pushed IR's chances?. Same way how did MSV-TKR created space for themselves pushing GR? No one will come to you automatically. Even coming to your point, by 1994/1995 (that was only few years away from late 80s) there was again so much space created, what can you say about it.

[genesis]

Comparison'E koodathunannen. That was my biggest concern. Leave them alone. If you still want to compare, compare correctly, that is my next concern. No one is twisting or under estimating anyone. As I repeated many times, just that article should have started with the interview and ended with that, no confusions. Unnecessary confusions/embarrasment caused.


Why don't you credit IR for that. If he didn't leave space, that is his credit, but you have to create space even there. How did ARR create space for himself during 92 and further and pushed IR's chances?. Same way how did MSV-TKR created space for themselves pushing GR? No one will come to you automatically. Even coming to your point, by 1994/1995 (that was only few years away from late 80s) there was again so much space created, what can you say about it.

V_S,

I did state IR dominance in a positive way only (dominated with his quality and speed). I was just citing IR's dominance as the reason for MSV's exit.

"Even coming to your point, by 1994/1995 (that was only few years away from late 80s) there was again so much space created, what can you say about it."

I do not understand your statement above.

[V_S]

genesis,
One composer's dominance can never take another's exit. That's where we differ. If we go back in history, during 80s, there are around 100 films made every year (and it was only increasing). IR started with just 30-40 films during late 70s till 80s (but gradually increasing). Only during years 1984, 85, 86, 92, 93 he crossed over 50 films. Other years it was only above 40. Considering 100 films made, there are 50% (that's plenty) of space (films) available that time for other composers every year during that time. That's why even Suresh ji was citing Shankar-Ganesh/Deva were making more films. He didn't hold others from composing, just that he didn't deny any offers went his way. Even after 50% of films available to others, we only say 80s is Ilaiyaraaja's period (so, it's not only about the quantity), just because they were more popular than others. IR dominated agreed, but he didn't deny others to dominate and he was not the reason for MSV's exit. MSV's songs were not that popular even though he did more number of movies in 80s (till mid-80s) than in 70s (if you observed closely). So, only MSV sir and people's taste (even if it is good or bad) should be the reason for his exit, not Ilaiyaraaja's dominance. I just quoted 1994/95 only because of your space concern. Because from that period till date, the number of movies by Raja came down drastically. It created more space for others according to you for any composer to come including MSV sir.

[genesis]

That's right V_S. MSV could have continued to work on "unimportant" Tamil movies and some Kannada / Malayalam movies, as IR chose to do. For some reason MSV did not. May be, after 25 years, the next generation fans may claim IR exited in 90s, because his influence through the 2000s has been very limited on larger audience. (Even though HCIR fans keep coming with list of movie names...some of these names not even known to the wider audience).

[V_S]

After honestly replying you, this is what I don't like about your posts. I wasted my time replying you.

[genesis]

-Duplicate-

[genesis]

After honestly replying you, this is what I don't like about your posts. I wasted my time replying you.

Well, I think we came back to the original issue (whether IR is the new MSV) and I told why I consider that way. And you disagree, that's natural.

[jaiganes]

That's right V_S. MSV could have continued to work on "unimportant" Tamil movies and some Kannada / Malayalam movies, as IR chose to do. For some reason MSV did not. May be, after 25 years, the next generation fans may claim IR exited in 90s, because his influence through the 2000s has been very limited on larger audience. (Even though HCIR fans keep coming with list of movie names...some of these names not even known to the wider audience).
wow - what a correlation genesis!!!
Two things that worked in favour of Raaja continuing well after the supposed "de throning" that ottu moththa thamizh naattu music lovers did to him after August 16th 1992 was his health+discipline and his dogged and anachronistic attitude of gracefully helping anyone who thought their movie needed his music. MSV OTOH was not having age on his side or health - otherwise he could have well continued making music and reclaiming the throne on which Raaja was unjustifiedly occupying. idhu eppdi irukku?

also your response shows your simple ignorance of the facts that raaja has been doing other language movies all through - not just after unceremonious drubbing in the match up to "throne of thamizh film music king". For your kind info MSV also has done his fair share of telugu and malayalam movies . eyes seem to be stitched tight - surgery dhaan pannanum.

[Plum]

Yov stop respomdimg to 80s vayitherichal parties. Appo kavignar oruthar vaanginma Appu innum avangaLa baadhichitturukku - andha mana bRAndhila innum uLarikittrukkanga. Idhukku bheesmaru, dhronarlAm edhukku mallu kattaRinga. Indha uththara kumarargaL thangaL shadow pArththE bayappaduvArgaL. Leave them in their misery of decades and ARAdha vadukkaL.

[Plum]

Hypocritesa hypocritenu sonnA warningA? Ipditta foruthula post pandradhai va ban AgaRadhE nEl. How is it that gormless, agenda base illogical, venting posts by vested interests are allowed? Pongayya ningalum unga forumum! :wave:

[Gregorysab]

Aakarsh, sorry to blow your bubble. Padithurai is dropped. Suka announced it in his blog a few weeks back. (may be it was a talked in tamil, you may have not seen it).

My reactions!

:banghead::sigh2::argh::argh::cry2:

[app_engine]

My reactions!

:banghead::sigh2::argh::argh::cry2:

We need another movie by Manivannan (who used to buy gems of songs from such "in cans" movies)!

[layman10]

My reactions!

:banghead::sigh2::argh::argh::cry2:

But, Forgot to add, Suka has start a new film, this will have Raaja as well.

[Nerd]

I think Suka being a great writer and all that is kind of unable to translate that on screen. I am just speculating here but I guess thats the reason Arya decided to not spend any more money on the product. The few clippings they showed in the Vijay TV programme were very underwhelming.

I will be glad to be proven wrong. Good luck with the next. And please release the songs of PadiththuRai at least in the Internet.

[genesis]

wow - what a correlation genesis!!!
Two things that worked in favour of Raaja continuing well after the supposed "de throning" that ottu moththa thamizh naattu music lovers did to him after August 16th 1992 was his health+discipline and his dogged and anachronistic attitude of gracefully helping anyone who thought their movie needed his music. MSV OTOH was not having age on his side or health - otherwise he could have well continued making music and reclaiming the throne on which Raaja was unjustifiedly occupying. idhu eppdi irukku?

also your response shows your simple ignorance of the facts that raaja has been doing other language movies all through - not just after unceremonious drubbing in the match up to "throne of thamizh film music king". For your kind info MSV also has done his fair share of telugu and malayalam movies . eyes seem to be stitched tight - surgery dhaan pannanum.

HCIRF: No, No, MSV can not be compared to IR... that's so wrong. By 1988, MSV was totally out of business. IR is still active.
Me: So are you saying by MSV was not good by 1988?
HCIRF: No, No, he is great. Just people do not seem to like his style so he was out.
Me: He was out because IR dominated the market and there was no room for MSV.
HCIRF: That's not true, IR did not even do 50% of Tamil movies in those years. There was lot of room for others. SG worked on lot of movies.
Me: Oh, I understand. IR is not the new MSV, but he is the new SG.
HCIRF: You are so mean. MSV's health was not good. That's why he was not able to work.
Me: So, if MSV's health was good and he was active in 1988, there was a possibility for Mani to get MSV for AN. So IR is the new MSV right?
HCIRF:......

[kiru]

In my opinion, IR can be compared to MSV and KVM positively to compliment him. I think, even IR might feel honored if you do that (he did mention in his book when Sivaji said "nee MSV/KVM levelukku poyitta" for mudhal mariyadhai songs). I think true lovers of music should not put down MSV or KVM anyway. These gentlemen are geniuses/masters and paved the way for IR (IR credits MSV for giving him a format for a film song). That IR did commercially well for a long time and even relevant today is because he is a fighter/fierce competitor. Yes, his health and personal discipline helped him too (God bless him). He is also multi-talented and write lyrics or pull off a project like Thiruvaasagam. Shankar-Ganesh mentioned in one interview if you take out the 'rhythm arrangement' all songs are the same anyways. That is why, Suresh mentions, synths helped IR to stay relevant (and add the dropping/less usage of tabla.) It is quite likely if you ask MSV to tune and some new guy to do the arrangements it will be a hit. Probably, he feels it is no big deal to fight it out and I respect that. After working with great poets and artistes with good music sense (like MGR etc) why bother. I respect his attitude. Let him enjoy his old age happily.It's all people's choices we have to respect that.

[Sureshs65]

genesis,

:lol: :) :D

That was just to be polite. You thought you were doing comedy and I didn't want to be seen as a guy without any sense of humor. So the above emoticons were to humor you.

Since you seem to be hell bent on ensuing that you frustrate even mild mannered guys like V_S, maybe it is time to get to some objective details rather than just generalization. So here is my question to you:

In 2009, Hariharan-MTV combination approach Raja for music for the BIGGEST budget movie they have done in their respective lives. In 2009, a high profile ad maker,named Balki, calls upon Raja to provide music for a high profile film which stars Amitab Bachchan, Abhishek Bachchan and Vidya Balan. In 2011, a successful director called Suseendran calls upon Raja to provide music for his film. Similarly another very successful director called Myskin asks Raja to provide music for his pet project.

I have given you 4 examples of what happened in the past 3 yrs. Now go ahead and give me similar examples of directors of such caliber and production houses which made big budget films which approached MSV in 1986. I don't want any generalization or generic answers. Give me concrete examples. Else, you must shut up. I think that is fair ask isn't it.

[Sureshs65]

kiru,

I understand what you say but to be honest, having followed the careers of many music directors across languages I can surely say that many slowly lose their musical prowess. Now this in nothing wrong. Whether it be some of the great Hindi directors or Telugu music directors, either their tune making ability comes down or they are no longer relevant. And that happened to not only MSV and KVM but also to the likes of Rajeshwar Rao and Pendyala in Telugu, to people like O P Nayyar in Hindi. Someone like Kamal Aakarsh will back me up on this as he has also followed the careers of Rajeshwar Rao, Pendyala, O P Nayyar etc. So I don't think we are disrespecting MSV when we say his music making capability and his relevance (musically) went down by mid 80s. We don't assess a music director by his bad period but rather by the good period.

Raja, on the other hand, is still relevant, musically to many and in some places commercially. I am sure Myshkin came to Raja for the music. He knew that Raja's commercial impact would be negligible. Same with Suseendran. For movies like 'SreeRamaRajyam' Bapu would not be able to think of anyone else other than Raja. And Raja survives because even today he makes better music than anyone else. That is the simple fact.

[irir123]

great examples Sureshs65 !

amongst these, only PAA stands out, coz the Balki was / is anyways an IR fan !

but

(i) Bapu could have chosen MM Keeravani who could have done justice to SRR ! MMK does have it in him to score for such mythologicals

(ii) Hariharan-MTV could have easily gone to Vidyasagar or anyone else, though I suspect if anyone else could have come up with such an opulent score! given IR's market status as well as the respect he commands in Kerala, I guess he was an obvious choice for PR

(iii) Suseendran could have easily chosen anyone from GV Prakash to Harris Jeyaraj for ASK - that he came to IR is quite surprising

(iv) Mysskin - same story

in all these cases, what is common is that the filmmaker had a script which demanded some serious music, and everyone came to IR !!

that tells us two things - 1. if you have a reasonably good script, IR is the automatic choice, and 2. there are not enough good scripts that need an IR!

which means that we are not capable of coming up with original scripts and we are losing out on quality composers who can do justice to such scores - IR then is truely the last of the classical composers, who can compose for a script!

[Sureshs65]

irir123,

Yes, you are right. Suseendran and Myskin coming to Raja is a surprise and to me it shows how much they value his music. In Bapu's case he probably had a choice but honestly Keeravani provides very cliched music. Can't bear either Annamayya or Ramadasu. One place where I disagree is 'PazhassiRaja'. Vidyasagar is a very nice music director but he is good choice only for small and medium budget movies. No one in the Indian film scene could have done what Raja did for PazhassiRaja.

[genesis]

genesis,

:lol: :) :D

That was just to be polite. You thought you were doing comedy and I didn't want to be seen as a guy without any sense of humor. So the above emoticons were to humor you.

Since you seem to be hell bent on ensuing that you frustrate even mild mannered guys like V_S, maybe it is time to get to some objective details rather than just generalization. So here is my question to you:

In 2009, Hariharan-MTV combination approach Raja for music for the BIGGEST budget movie they have done in their respective lives. In 2009, a high profile ad maker,named Balki, calls upon Raja to provide music for a high profile film which stars Amitab Bachchan, Abhishek Bachchan and Vidya Balan. In 2011, a successful director called Suseendran calls upon Raja to provide music for his film. Similarly another very successful director called Myskin asks Raja to provide music for his pet project.

I have given you 4 examples of what happened in the past 3 yrs. Now go ahead and give me similar examples of directors of such caliber and production houses which made big budget films which approached MSV in 1986. I don't want any generalization or generic answers. Give me concrete examples. Else, you must shut up. I think that is fair ask isn't it.

Suresh,

Just by laughing at me, you can not make my argument irrelevant. KVM did Sankarabharanam in 1980; I say IR's SRR is something like that. Even today, IR can not be challenged in his fort. He is THE master. He is able to amaze me with some of his tunes to this date, eg: Enge Nee Sendralum from Kannukkulle.

But, you have not answered the basic question: Why not IR be compared to MSV? Why so much opposition from HCIR fans? Give me one good solid answer.

[Sureshs65]

genesis,

Are you seriously reading what people write here. As I said in BR's blog I can only wake up people who are sleeping. I will try one more time with you.

The 'one solid reason' is what I gave. What people here have been saying is that MSV of 1986 (read my lips, MSV of 1986, hope you got it) cannot be compared to Raja of 2012. I think this is fairly simple to understand. I had given 4 examples on why this comparison does not work. So once again so that we all understand: It is not about comparing MSV and Raja generically. It is about comparing MSV of 1986 with Raja of 2012. And you yourself admit that Raja of today is capable of some great music!!!

KVM, by the way did a couple of good movies with Vishwanath till around 1982, after which Vishwanath shifted to Raja. KVM did give a few decent scores but by 1984, he was mostly out of the picture.

[app_engine]

During all these 'not #1 commercially' years, IR had been mercurial with his BGM, considered unbeatable on that portion (which even HC fans of MSV-KVM will agree).

A non-starter called Vikram came into limelight after Sethu during these years. One of the key components for the success of Sethu was BGM as accepted by the industry. (songs are so-so from this movie). Bala went on to become a renowned director in TF, did a couple more movies with IR (pithA magan & nAn kadavuL, both won some NA)

Kamal directed two movies during the same "kOttai-illE-kodiyum-illE-period" of IR and both are critically acclaimed by movie connoisseurs. HR & Virumandi (both had hit songs / BGM)

During the same period we saw azhagi, launch of Thangar Bachan as director who went on to get some acclaim.

Then there was Bharathi...

I'm tired...

[San_K]

a_e santhadi saakula sethu songsa pathan paathutteengalE :lol:. Sethu songs were big hits esp kana karunguyile which can be compared with today's myskin film kuthu songs (vala meenukkum, kaththala kannala). 90s IR period enakku romba nerukkam, so ethu hit ethu hit illainu enakku nallave theriyum.

[genesis]

So, IR can not be compared to MSV because of this and that. But much of the opposition (from HCIR fans of course) to BR's blog was centered around this one point. If I got the pulse correctly, many HCIR fans took this as an insult of "current" IR - that's why there is so much opposition, not because of this and that.

IMHO, MSV is a great composer and so is IR. If in 1988 MSV out of "style", so is IR of 2012 (I think this is the point of friction between us). So IR of 2012 is very much worth comparing to 1988 MSV.

I am stopping here. I do not think we have a meeting point on this subject.

[Sureshs65]

genesis,

Great. Thank god for small mercies. I too stop because now I am sure you are very much awake and don't want to see anything other than what you imagine.

[Sureshs65]

And BTW genesis, you have slyly moved away from doing one thing which I wanted you to do. Show me four incidents from 1986 which were equivalent to what I had written about Raja. You sidestepped it as I expected and came to generalities and accusing HCRIF etc. So I definitely do not intend continuing this conversation with you until you answer my question with examples.

[jaiganes]

genesis,

Are you seriously reading what people write here. As I said in BR's blog I can only wake up people who are sleeping. I will try one more time with you.

The 'one solid reason' is what I gave. What people here have been saying is that MSV of 1986 (read my lips, MSV of 1986, hope you got it) cannot be compared to Raja of 2012. I think this is fairly simple to understand. I had given 4 examples on why this comparison does not work. So once again so that we all understand: It is not about comparing MSV and Raja generically. It is about comparing MSV of 1986 with Raja of 2012. And you yourself admit that Raja of today is capable of some great music!!!

KVM, by the way did a couple of good movies with Vishwanath till around 1982, after which Vishwanath shifted to Raja. KVM did give a few decent scores but by 1984, he was mostly out of the picture.
@genesis - venumnaa oru point eduthu kudukkaren - KVM got to do "Swathi Kiranam" with KViswanath after Raaja _ KV's swarnakamalam - the songs were very good and I believe he even got a NA for that - kamaan tiger kamaan.. oops but it is not KVM we are talking abt - MSV - right? aiyyo point illaye - probably if we can include the "Nilave Malare" - Vijay's dad directed or Rajanadai *ing vijaykanth or "KoottuppuzhukkaL" which had the delightful "Niththam niththam " or another RC Sakthi film "Pathinippen" which had couple of nice melodies.... These were MSV hits during Raja Peak period ... We are HCIRF - allright - but we are not blind as you put it or a cult detached from reality and contemporary reality as Rangu dada puts it - I hope you have some civility in you to concede that..

[genesis]

@genesis - venumnaa oru point eduthu kudukkaren - KVM got to do "Swathi Kiranam" with KViswanath after Raaja _ KV's swarnakamalam - the songs were very good and I believe he even got a NA for that - kamaan tiger kamaan.. oops but it is not KVM we are talking abt - MSV - right? aiyyo point illaye - probably if we can include the "Nilave Malare" - Vijay's dad directed or Rajanadai *ing vijaykanth or "KoottuppuzhukkaL" which had the delightful "Niththam niththam " or another RC Sakthi film "Pathinippen" which had couple of nice melodies.... These were MSV hits during Raja Peak period ... We are HCIRF - allright - but we are not blind as you put it or a cult detached from reality and contemporary reality as Rangu dada puts it - I hope you have some civility in you to concede that..

I hate to include you in the HCIRF category, you are too moderate.

[jaiganes]

I hate to include you in the HCIRF category, you are too moderate.
idhu pirithaaLum soozhchi!!

[kiru]

...out of "style", so is IR of 2012 ...
Yesterday, I watched Paa on Netflix for a while.. Abhishek, Rani Mukherjee romancing to IR's tune. It did not feel out of style to me. And this thread is about the GVM movie and he did mention in the interview about the modernity (break beats, Jazz/Blues etc). (Even though I dont understand why Jazz and Blues are considered modern, They have been around for a long time).
(@Suresh - I know your respect for MSV. Its just that people will try(and are) to twist/distort your words)
(And BTW, I think Balki's collaboration with IR was an inspiration/vote of confidence for GVM to go to IR)

[MumbaiRamki]

July 1st audio illa pola .. just 1 week and we dont see any announcements .. seri, neenga innum konjam nalla sanda podunga , jolly ya iruku ... konjam personal a thittena innum swarasyama irukum :))))))) JK ..

First time in 10 years , i see a new album of IR has created 35 pages , albeit with lot of weed posts :)

[senthilv.com]

kiru,

I understand what you say but to be honest, having followed the careers of many music directors across languages I can surely say that many slowly lose their musical prowess. Now this in nothing wrong. Whether it be some of the great Hindi directors or Telugu music directors, either their tune making ability comes down or they are no longer relevant. And that happened to not only MSV and KVM but also to the likes of Rajeshwar Rao and Pendyala in Telugu, to people like O P Nayyar in Hindi. Someone like Kamal Aakarsh will back me up on this as he has also followed the careers of Rajeshwar Rao, Pendyala, O P Nayyar etc. So I don't think we are disrespecting MSV when we say his music making capability and his relevance (musically) went down by mid 80s. We don't assess a music director by his bad period but rather by the good period.

Raja, on the other hand, is still relevant, musically to many and in some places commercially. I am sure Myshkin came to Raja for the music. He knew that Raja's commercial impact would be negligible. Same with Suseendran. For movies like 'SreeRamaRajyam' Bapu would not be able to think of anyone else other than Raja. And Raja survives because even today he makes better music than anyone else. That is the simple fact.

Suresh, I'm a HCIRF but your statements are actually unfair to MSV in so many ways and it is so wrong. MSV can make great music even now, the reason for him not making music after 80's seriously has nothing to do with his capability, musical acumen and relevance. The film industry just didn't know how to use MSV's music. Just like industry now doesn't know how to use IR music as effectively as they could. Sivaji sir didn't lose his acting prowess late in his career, just the industry lost it's ability to use him as much as he was used earlier. If all producers and directors run after Kamal, it doesn't him make better actor than Sivaji. It is TFM's loss that MSV was not utilized.

Tomorrow, someone figures out a way to give great hit with MSV, there will be line-up at his door. This industry is a slave to none but trend and is hell scared to go against the trend. There was a time in 80's when every Raja film had him sing the title song and this was supposedly a sure way to make the film a hit. This is how silly the industry gets.

Anyway, just top directors going to Raja or MSV means nothing. Really. It doesn't add a thing to what they have already achieved. Being a HCIRF, I'll follow raja's path and boldly argue, most of MSV and Raja's work can stand up to world music and can undergo any level of musical scrutiny but only few films in the entire history of TFM can boast that level artistry and craftsmanship.

Let's make one thing clear, good music is not equal to hit song or a song that many ppl like it. Which is usually the yardstick used by audience and most ppl in the industry, which is fair considering it is a business. But to objectively claim Raja makes better music than MSV? Come on, it is not a fact. It's ur opinion and nothing wrong with that but it's not a fact.

Senthil

[app_engine]

Yesterday, I watched Paa on Netflix for a while..

The only "IR-MD-ed movie" DVD I see in the Dearborn public library :-)

BTW, I had to use the minivan to commute yesterday and it had the cheeni kum music. Those two instrumental tracks were so soothing during the "back-from-long-work-day" ride :-)

Excellent to hear and betters most "smooth-jazz" music I've heard over the years.

If this is not modern / contemporary / youthful etc, the listener definitely has heavy anti-IR bias. A simple test will be to play that to some modern youth who doesn't know IR (or any TFM) and ask to comment.

Gautam onnum avvaLavu vivaram illAma rAsA kitta varalai :wink:

sarakku innum niRaiya irukku!

[Sureshs65]

senthil,

Sorry. I don't buy the 'industry did not know how to use him' angle. I stand by what I said.

[Sureshs65]

And senthil, when did I say 'Raja makes better music than MSV'. Sometimes it is good if you read what is written carefully and not read what you want. What I said was that MSV by 1986 had lost both commercial and musical relevance whereas Raja in 2012 has not lost his musical relevance though he is commercially not a 'hit' music director any more. Why is so hard to understand this statement? I was not making a career wise comparison of MSV and Raja and passing some judgement.

So if you want to argue against my stand, please show me how MSV was relevant in 1986? That is all I ask. Not for your pontification.

[irir123]

MSV gave an astounding 'ninaithale inikkum' when IR gave a 'priya' - NI on anyday trounces Priya in terms of creativity, energy etc etc !

and MSV did give great / outstanding tracks like 'man kanda sorgangal', 'kana kaanum kangal mella', 'ragangal padhinaaru' etc when IR was at his peak (a peak that continued on and on!).

however the Agni Natchatiram example is rather dumb/silly !

then there is the issue of the composing style - my little understanding says that though MSV and IR belong to the old school, IR's composing style was/is marked by prolificity and unmatched speed combined with the kind of quality we have often associated with his output! these traits are very much IR's!

having said that, i have heard rumors that K Bhagyaraj took MSV's help for his 'music composing' for idhu namma aalu! MSV music poda, ivaru than pera vechhukittadhaa oru rumor - dont know how far it is true!

am sure that MSV's basic melody making abilities will still be the same - but, with due respect to MSV's genius, adaptability to a given context such as how IR does for a malayalam film backdrop, or a kannada film backdrop is something only IR is capable of ! thats why mallu directors still seek IR !

[app_engine]

MSV always had severe limitations with orchestration -i.e. even during his prime, IMO, he needed assistants to help him on that.
(Marked difference in orch quality can be seen between MSV-TKR songs plus when Henry Daniel was around v/s later ones with Joseph Krishna as asst.)

That was the reason for Hindi songs to capture the elite-TN during 70's.
Also, one main reason for early success of IR.

No question about MSV's "melody making" capabilities - that were perhaps still intact during late 80's :-) The MSV-IR combo movie senthamizhppAttu got released in 1992 with a couple of decent melodies.

That way, there had been never any comparison possible between MSV & IR as a composer in total.

IR was / is a class apart.

[senthilv.com]

And senthil, when did I say 'Raja makes better music than MSV'. Sometimes it is good if you read what is written carefully and not read what you want. What I said was that MSV by 1986 had lost both commercial and musical relevance whereas Raja in 2012 has not lost his musical relevance though he is commercially not a 'hit' music director any more. Why is so hard to understand this statement? I was not making a career wise comparison of MSV and Raja and passing some judgement.

So if you want to argue against my stand, please show me how MSV was relevant in 1986? That is all I ask. Not for your pontification.


------

Chill. Don't take it personally. I have nothing against you. Just scrutinizing ur points.

You had this to say... "And Raja survives because even today he makes better music than anyone else. That is the simple fact" I interpreted this as "Raja makes better music than anyone else (including MSV)" Was my interpretation wrong? If you believe MSV could also make great music than clarify it, I will take back my word.

"I don't think we are disrespecting MSV when we say his music making capability and his relevance (musically) went down by mid 80s. We don't assess a music director by his bad period but rather by the good period"

First, what do you mean by "musical relevance". Relevance to what? I don't understand it. Second MSV's music making capability went down? One could say demand for his type of music with producers went down. But how do you know his music making capability went down?

[Sureshs65]

senthil,

I was talking about the present. When you read the full sentence, including "Raja survives today', the operative word being today, I meant that Raja makes better music than anyone else who is making music today.

And ofcourse I believe MSV can make great music. Kindly check my blog. You will find that I have listed songs of MSV and more will come in future.

Again, I don't buy the 'demand for his type of music with producers went down' argument. As a great fan of MSV, who had defended him against Raja once upon a time, I did follow his music very carefully during that period. And I personally say that what he produced during that period was no patch to what he had produced earlier. I tell this as a serious listener. Yes, there are some nice songs that irir123 pointed out but they few and far between in the mid 80s. And many of the tunes had the 'heard before feel'. We can do a thorough analysis and I seriously believe that anyone objective enough, when analyzing MSV's output will clearly see a tapering of musicality towards the end of his career.

I am ofcourse ready to accept proof which proves me wrong. And as usual, you have not replied to the last line in my post.

[genesis]

MSV always had severe limitations with orchestration -i.e. even during his prime, IMO, he needed assistants to help him on that.
(Marked difference in orch quality can be seen between MSV-TKR songs plus when Henry Daniel was around v/s later ones with Joseph Krishna as asst.)

That was the reason for Hindi songs to capture the elite-TN during 70's.
Also, one main reason for early success of IR.

No question about MSV's "melody making" capabilities - that were perhaps still intact during late 80's :-) The MSV-IR combo movie senthamizhppAttu got released in 1992 with a couple of decent melodies.

That way, there had been never any comparison possible between MSV & IR as a composer in total.

IR was / is a class apart.

app,

While I agree that IR is the king of orchestration (meaning MSV can not be compared to him in that dept), I do not agree 70s Hindi song orchestration was far superior than MSV's - I think Hindi offered more variety to TN people. The decline of Hindi popularity in TN is more to do with Hindi song quality in the 80s than IR effect (ah ah, there is one more blasphemy!!).

Even today I am able to enjoy 60s and 70s Hindi music, but not the 80s. (I started listening Hindi songs only from late 80s, only after DD Hindi thinippu)

[jaiganes]

Just a small segway/WCM question - Some guy had posted earlier in his/her pasebuk or tuitter that the NEPV scores are good - but very less notes..
What is that implying - notes lesser or more - does it hint at anything?

[senthilv.com]

senthil,

I was talking about the present. When you read the full sentence, including "Raja survives today', the operative word being today, I meant that Raja makes better music than anyone else who is making music today.

And ofcourse I believe MSV can make great music. Kindly check my blog. You will find that I have listed songs of MSV and more will come in future.

Again, I don't buy the 'demand for his type of music with producers went down' argument. As a great fan of MSV, who had defended him against Raja once upon a time, I did follow his music very carefully during that period. And I personally say that what he produced during that period was no patch to what he had produced earlier. I tell this as a serious listener. Yes, there are some nice songs that irir123 pointed out but they few and far between in the mid 80s. And many of the tunes had the 'heard before feel'. We can do a thorough analysis and I seriously believe that anyone objective enough, when analyzing MSV's output will clearly see a tapering of musicality towards the end of his career.

I am ofcourse ready to accept proof which proves me wrong. And as usual, you have not replied to the last line in my post.


------


I didn't ignore your operative word. I still believe MSV can make great music, even today. You believe he can't and/or he didn't create good music since 1986. Cool and I respect it. But that's two opinion-- yours and mine. Not a fact.

I was not interested in tackling your last point because i felt it is irrelevant. Since you ask, here's my take.....Sivakumar (actor) has not acted in films since late 1990's. So can we assume his acting capability went down? Replace Sivakumar with any other older actor, won't it sound weird? They are not in the industry, not because their acting are irrelevant but because the roles relevant to them are not written anymore. Roles are written geared towards Suriya & co because of chances/probability to make money is more. But it is not indication of acting talent of Sivakumar or others.

Music Directors are not that different from actors. Especially the likes of MSV and Raja as they are more like musical actors and not produce something on their own. if you give them good situation, narration, story. They musically "act out" and produce great song. Every one of their song is tailored to the T to the situation. if you give them a totally cliched situation, they still give you okay songs. It is against their integrity to "over act" through music to get noticed or stand out.

They are almost like instruments in hands of producers, writers, directors. Can't blame the instrument for bad playing. Every music director has strength and weakness. One has to understand the strength and weakness of music directors to bring out the best in them. MSV was served bad stories/movies in 80's he still did okay. If we tried to figure an instance were MSV botched a good situation with an "okay" song, we have a relevant discussion. But it doesn't seem right to pin down lack of good music from him entirely down to his musical capability.

If you listen to MSV's interview, he attributes success of a song to the team of writer/lyrcist, producer, actor, camerman. Never tries to take individual credit, because it is unfair to the team. So how could we conveniently blame just him for his "failures" in 80's?

[baroque]

Just a small segway/WCM question - Some guy had posted earlier in his/her pasebuk or tuitter that the NEPV scores are good - but very less notes..
What is that implying - notes lesser or more - does it hint at anything?

Does it mean, Raja has created some music themes using less notes - 3 or 4 notes etc..?
Let the album come!
with live orchestra of 100+ pieces, singer like Karthik's vocal, rendu moonu pattaavadhu therum.
adhai thavira instrumental bgms erukkum.
enough of speculations...
varatum modhalla....:)

[senthilv.com]

Does it mean, Raja has created some music themes using less notes - 3 or 4 notes etc..?

-----

It could mean "minimalistic". Using less notes to convey the same point/emotion. Which Raja has been doing since late 1980's. Might be new for them.

[baroque]

minimalistic music means less orchestral work or using less number of instruments.

Here they have speculated 'less notes'
that's why I thought that the music themes created with less number of notes.


see...
EARLY ILAYARAJA'S KHAMAJ MASTER PIECE NAAN PESA VANDHEN....
is MINIMALISTIC ILAYARAJA!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7vP6UW7FK8


kavikkuyil's yearning janu's chinna kannan azhaikkiraan...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSTulKnpD6c

Raja blasts with bgm!


BOTH THE TYPES WE ADORE!:redjump::bluejump:

[V_S]

senthilv,
You are not answering Suresh ji questions, but rather defending only by blaming music scenario, producers that time does not sound good. Can I blame the music scenario of 90s for IR's so-called failures? Absolutely not! Actor vs music director comparison is lame. Same way can I ask why Prabhu, Delhi Ganesh et all are even sought now. Even Manorama, Nagesh were acting recently. Why are they writing roles for them and not for Sivakumar?. We also have to think the reason. (let's leave it aside, as this is another bigger subject).

As per the tastes of people, films, music everything changes. We have to accept that and change/adapt ourselves to support it, rather than blame the audience or producers. Even IR had a lean patch in late 90s (where he gave biggest hits like Guru, Kalapani, Kathalukku mariyaathai), but what do you think the reason he is still sought out composer? Same way, why after 86 or so no producers were coming MSV sir way? It was only after 4 years since he gave biggest hits like Thillu mullu (raagangaL pathinaaru), Shankarlal (unakkenna mElE, what a beauty!), Pollathavan (athO vaaraandi, naane endrum raja), Agni Satchi (KanA Kaanum KaNgaL mella), 47 NaatkaL (maan kanda sorgangaL), Manal Kayiru (Mandhira Punnagai), Andha 7 Naatkal (Kavithai arangErum, ENNi irundhadhu).

Same thing happened to IR during 92-95. After 95 suddenly the number of movies went down drastically. Where is 95 and where is 2012. Why are we still hearing about IR?

Suresh ji, See where a casual comparison has got us into? The one who wrote escaped from the scene, but we have to put our effort to explain things. That's why in first place I hate these comparisons.

Please don't blame me. This is how I see it. I don't have any doubt about his music ability, but MSV sir was not much interested in making music after mid-80s and also did not update himself and didn't make effort to understand peoples taste. This clearly showed up that he needed Maestro for Mella thirandhathu Kadhavu, Senthamizh Paattu and Viswa Thulasi. By 1986 when he made MTK, he should have understood what people are interested in having worked with Maestro closely, still for some reason, he did not bend himself. By this time, people have already changed their taste to appreciating the orchestration, WCM skills, BGMs, folk, guitar centric songs. Even the films were mostly out of the studio and into the villages which gave IR a big step ahead. He simultaneously updated himself in guitar, piano, WCM and also tried to bring more synthesizers into his composition (that was right from early 80s). While MSV sir mainly concentrated on melodies which was also important, but people expected more. More than his music capability, I tend to think, he lost interest.

Sameway in 90s, when ARR stormed into the scene, people's expectation changed drastically. Even though IR was stubborn in his style/trademark, the main difference lies in the fact that IR closely followed his works and made every attempt (even though he may not have liked it) to satisfy audience by learning new synthesizers, brought in new singers (just like ARR did), learned more contemporary stuff, pro-actively scored music for young and new generations directors to keep his music live. He certainly knew one day everything will be rewarded. I would say that's the fire he always keeps live, mainly for us, we music lovers. See the enthusiasm he has even now. He goes to London and still has a big group of musicians around him. He has that apetite and wil always have, because he knows nothing but music. Simply put, keep it going buddy. :thumbsup:

My last question, if music is your breath and life, how can you quit? I hope you understood my point.

Suresh ji and App, Excellent post. As always you read my mind. :notworthy: I owe you a lot.

[genesis]

-Deleted-

Mumbai Ramki - No entertainment for you!!

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

V_S, I will frame your last post! Really! Already took screenshot!

[V_S]

Thanks skv.:smile:

[app_engine]

sumAl nitpick V_Sji...'unakkenna mElE ninRAi' was from simlA special.
(Shankarlal music by IR-GA, the only movie to credit both...)

[Sureshs65]

senthil,

You say, "I was not interested in tackling your last point". That about seals the debate. As I said, I will be more than happy to be proved wrong but if no one comes forward to give exact examples there is no sense in continuing the debate.

V_S,

Nice post. I agree with most of what you said. As a critic, I have a slightly different take but I will leave it here for now.

[Sureshs65]

Jai,

My take on that statement is that the brass section got to play some good stuff but not for long time. Maybe it is the typical Raja orchestration where the sax/trumpet/trombone enter during the interlude, play for half a cycle and leave. Again play briefly. I guess that is what he meant by 'playing less notes'.

[Sureshs65]

genesis,

R D Burman's orchestration and Salil Da's orchestration was way ahead of the orchestration of Tamil and Telugu film songs during the early 70s. Honestly there was no match. The whole scenario changed after Raja came and the Tamil film music orchestration became more complicated than the orchestration in Hindi films. Gradually Raja took film orchestrations to astonishing levels, the heights which even today only Raja is able to reach.

[senthilv.com]

senthil,

You say, "I was not interested in tackling your last point". That about seals the debate. As I said, I will be more than happy to be proved wrong but if no one comes forward to give exact examples there is no sense in continuing the debate.

---

I'm not interested in proving you wrong. No interest what so ever. I'm here to share, discuss and learn couple of things.

One cannot prove someone's opinion wrong and your opinion cannot become fact. That is my only point. I just asked how you can state MSV's musical capability waned. you made some more sweeping statements. If you gave specific points. I can discuss.

btw, I did tackle you point and showed why your point is irrelevant. Until you show how it is relevant. I don't know how to proceed. Pls show me what is yardstick for measuring musical capability? I'm not shying away from discussion as long as it is healthy.

V_S Sir,

Naan chinna paiyan sir and got no shoulder to lean on. Pure lonely bachelor. Can't handle such attack pls go a bit easy on me ;)

And I'm cool with with your notes/opinions as long you don't say it is a fact :) Salute.

[V_S]

Thanks Suresh ji.

Sorry senthilv if my post hurt you. I didn't mean it. Even though it is my opinion and would not thrust you accept it, I still believe I did objective reasoning behind it and the results are proving it comfortably.

[senthilv.com]

Thanks Suresh ji.

Sorry senthilv if my post hurt you. I didn't mean it. Even though it is my opinion and would not thrust you accept it, I still believe I did objective reasoning behind it and the results are proving it comfortably.

oh no V_S. Not at all. ur post actually made me laugh at couple of instance so I replied with a light-hearted tone. I'm a total Raja fan. Everything I know about music, including a bit i'm scratching with MSV's music is through that giant. I'm interested in drama in music that is only insight I can bring to the discussion. I know nothing about Raga or Tala.

Didn't mean to ignore your notes. I was looking up something on Youtube to post for you. Will post may be soon. Cheers.

[Sureshs65]

senthil,

One last time :)

I had earlier quoted 4 different movies and four different directors approaching Raja for music. This is not an opinion. It is a fact. All I wanted was to know if such a thing happened with MSV. Ofcourse I didn't ask you this but asked genesis, who didn't reply to that point.

Now staying with facts. Let us take the two recent movies of Raja. 'SreeRamaRajyam' and 'SnehaVeedu' and also take up movies like 'PazhassiRaja' and 'Paa'. All of these created a stir in the music circles and these four were decently successful commercially as well. Again, not my opinion. I hope this will be taken as a fact. All I want you to do is to take the period of 1984 to 1986 and show me 4 such movies of MSV, which were critically acclaimed, talked about and were decently successful. I am not showing you that because I cannot think of 4 such MSV's movies during that period which are of this standard or even of the standard which MSV had in the 70s. If you can think of such movies, kindly let me know. I will surely listen to them and change my opinion if I find the music to be outstanding. I think is as objective as it can be?

[Gregorysab]

And everyday I am eagerly coming to this page, with a childlike enthusiasm, to see if there are any updates about NEPV... and...:idontgetit::roll:

[KV]

suresh, vs, irir, senthil, app, jai, kiru.... ooru perusunga ellaam sEndhu enna oru alasal! :clap:. sunny v/s windies pace attack paatha oru feeling! keep it going! spectators like me are having a feast!

(aside: thinking aloud, we're all so obsessed with the idea of 'comparison', aren't we? msv/ir, kvm/msv, ir/ar, zep/floyd, sunny/vishy, sach/lara, pele/mar, mgr/sivaji, kamal/rajini... ippidi pOra edam ellaam panchayathu pannidrOm. At some plane, aren't these scuffles indicators of the arrogance within each of us? yet, we will not refrain from pointing fingers at others asking them to mend their personalities. Like IR says, i think fate said to us 'nee ingye kadaa' and we merrily carry on celebrating our lowly lives!)

[Gregorysab]

suresh, vs, irir, senthil, app, jai, kiru.... ooru perusunga ellaam sEndhu enna oru alasal! :clap:. sunny v/s windies pace attack paatha oru feeling! keep it going! spectators like me are having a feast!

(aside: thinking aloud, we're all so obsessed with the idea of 'comparison', aren't we? msv/ir, kvm/msv, ir/ar, zep/floyd, sunny/vishy, sach/lara, pele/mar, mgr/sivaji, kamal/rajini... ippidi pOra edam ellaam panchayathu pannidrOm. At some plane, aren't these scuffles indicators of the arrogance within each of us? yet, we will not refrain from pointing fingers at others asking them to mend their personalities. Like IR says, i think fate said to us 'nee ingye kadaa' and we merrily carry on celebrating our lowly lives!)

Annaaa!!!:clap::2thumbsup::bow::lol: My thoughts exactly, looking at many threads/forums not just here but on any social media platform where some music is dis'cuss'ed :-D you spoke my mind totally!:2thumbsup:

[senthilv.com]

Suresh,

Will respond to you shortly.

V_S,

Raja himself is not taking credit for bringing/popularizing folk music in TN and requesting not to make such claims. He puts interviewer in spot my downplaying his achievement :) He says others have done it before and he is just continuing that... I think he is right. The time period was ripe to explore the music Raja was interested in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwBmlAhOvtg&feature=relmfu

I'd say the same thing about WCM. TFM has been utilizing WCM since 40's but Raja just took it to another level with full scale adoption and fresh approach. We all know he also utilized baroque music more than any other composer in India. I think it is this unique baroque taste that we crave for.

I love belonging to Raja community/fans and having discussions, so I don't want to give a wrong impression that I'm playing other musician up or playing him down. Raja is my favorite composer but I like MSV's music all the way till the end. The same way Raja adores his music. MSV served us great music for 30 years from 1950's to 80's. Just to put him in context, he was in in his 34th year in the industry by 1986. He is a treasure and I just want us as Raja fan to treat him very carefully. Just be bit more sensitive may be? Of course this is just my sentiment.

Personally, I can't see how MSV music can go down suddenly in just 2 years or Raja for that matter in 3 years during that 92-95 period u mentioned. MSV may not make trendy music but intrinsically his music is still good and could still serve us great music. Anyway, I will think a bit about MSV 80's music more and post later

I'm just sharing some of my personal fav's of MSV's work in context of our discussion. Each song is tailored to the character and situation. MSV alone would probably never come-up this kinda of song. It is not home cooked song by thinking about music and innovation. Created by the team effort.

Also, totally no intention to discuss which/who is better, Just to show pure appreciation for the master. Sometimes it is good to go back and refresh.


Yaar Antha Nilavu - Santhi
Amazing guitar song by MSV. Electric guitar I believe and dreamy orchestration. It is still fresh and sounds so contemporary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8mgrtqbfNw


Avalukku ena Alagiya Mugam.
IMO, this song has everything in it. Melody, orchestration, chord progression, inventive arrangement, variety in each Saranam and the way saranam goes away and connects back with the main pallavi. Everything is unpredictable in this song and so fun too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXOs-ytaqD0

Pattathu Raaniyin in Sivatha Mann. IMO, this is an amazing piece of cinema. Great direction, music, dance, lyrics, acting, camerawork(possibly every possible camera technique is used in this song), production design, art direction and on top, great storytelling. I just adore the way they use whip sound through out the song to heighten the tension and climax the song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvClS5Un_vU


Enge Nimmathi -- Unparalleled. Equal to any orchestration anywhere in the world. I believe they used 100+ musicians for the first time? Every instrument has clear place and direction. They used them so beautifully to tell the story. My favorite is use of wind sound is various ways in various instruments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeHzASYET2Y


Athan Ennathan -- Waltz type use is so soothing. P.Susheela's conversation with the strings is so beautiful. Eats my heart every time I listen to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9AchQR02vY

Ammamma Keladi Thozhi- Such a effective orchestration done in simple way. Love the BGM at the beginning.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWpWTVDyM5g

Vaa Nila, Nila alla. -- Doesn't need any introduction. This after being in the industry for 25 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV8V2oowwwI

[groucho070]

sethilv.com, awesome, awesome. I would love to have a separate discussion on MSV music of the 80s. His melodies were getting complex that time, a real challenge for vocalists.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

suresh, vs, irir, senthil, app, jai, kiru.... ooru perusunga ellaam sEndhu enna oru alasal! :clap:. sunny v/s windies pace attack paatha oru feeling! keep it going! spectators like me are having a feast!

(aside: thinking aloud, we're all so obsessed with the idea of 'comparison', aren't we? msv/ir, kvm/msv, ir/ar, zep/floyd, sunny/vishy, sach/lara, pele/mar, mgr/sivaji, kamal/rajini... ippidi pOra edam ellaam panchayathu pannidrOm. At some plane, aren't these scuffles indicators of the arrogance within each of us? yet, we will not refrain from pointing fingers at others asking them to mend their personalities. Like IR says, i think fate said to us 'nee ingye kadaa' and we merrily carry on celebrating our lowly lives!)

Annaaa!!!:clap::2thumbsup::bow::lol: My thoughts exactly, looking at many threads/forums not just here but on any social media platform where some music is dis'cuss'ed :-D you spoke my mind totally!:2thumbsup:

Agree with u KV! Sila per Arivu Jeevi engira pOrvayila, mayyam.com kku varrathe yaaraiyaachum ethukkaathum thittrathukku thaanOnnu thONuthu! Eppa paaru kaila sombOda alaiyuraanga! Tolerance nna kilo enna vilai nnu kekkuraanga

[wizzy]

KV, don't think the idea of 'comparison' had to be frowned upon..how do we benchmark the talent then....would be mundane if everyone chose not to and start singing their idol's hymns and expect others to do the same...now Bradman Vs Sach comparison is what keeping most of the cricket forums afloat :-)

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

But Artists like Raja and Kamal doesn't need anybody to be compared with and raise them. Just by thier individual capacity and talent, they both go beyond comparison.

[Sureshs65]

/Dig

KV,

:D

I personally feel comparisons are inevitable for any serious music lover. This is not comparison for sake of proving one person to be better than other but for understanding. I compare the music of Madan Mohan and Roshan with that of Naushad and try to understand why many of Naushad's tunes don't appeal to me the same way that Madan Mohan and Roshan's tunes do. This enables me to understand my own aesthetics as much as the aesthetics of the music director. I compare the tunes of RDB with those of Laxmikanth Pyarelal and try to figure out why I consider RDB a great innovator and why LP's tunes sound so pedestrian. Again, this gives me an understanding of my own taste. (Believe me there are lot of people even today who love the music of LP, many of the songs I cannot stand.) These comparisons help us flesh out our own thoughts and also understand the music directors vision deeply. So if you compare for this purpose and you personally come to a conclusion that you like a particular music director more because of certain aesthetics criteria, then I don't see a problem. The problem comes only when we everyone wants to go, "My daddy strongest."

The second point I want to make is that every serious music listener is also very interested in mapping the graph of any music director. How did he start? How did he evolve? Did his evolution stop at some point? Till what point were is tunes innovative? When did they start becoming stale? I think this is something everyone does to their favorite music director. I too do it but I am probably a bit harsh when doing such an assessment. So I do end up accepting that many of our great music directors had an issue in the later part of their career and their musical abilities did diminish. This of course will always be a point of contention but having followed the career of quite a few music directors I have no choice but to say it. As I said earlier, we are just doing a graph of their career. Not an assessment of their music. If we understand this, I don't think there will be a problem. This mapping of career graph is important because it also tells us how the musician evolved and how he adapted himself.

[KV]

wizzman, I ain't frowning at the idea of comparison, which IS the spice, or even lifeline, of such forums. idhellaam illatti uppuchappu illaama poidum. what's life without some 'kick' in it! ;)
My point was about debating 'humility' (and how some of us find it so unbearably difficult to accept people the way they are). When we engage in discussions in public forums, knowingly or unknowingly, we make a display of our knowledge, exposure and understanding (or the lack of all these) of things - which is parading our arrogance in some ways, IMO. With just our mundane lives if we have the right (and lack of shame) to indulge in this, why should creative personalities be given the cane? thakkali chutney/raththam analogy?

[P_R]

My point was about debating 'humility'
fullA padikkalai. Music comparison ellAm purinjukka mudiyumnu thONalai. But will respond to this point alone

Great artists should not be judged by the standerts set for normal human beings-nu sollunga rightu.

Anything and everything gets disproportionately attributed to -what gets a tad thoughtlessly bandied about as - arrogance 'nu solRadhu kooda sari.

But, ellAmE edhirkatchi agenda based image- 'nRa maadhiri ellAm solla vENdAngREn.

"yEzhu swarangaLum ennidam viLayAduvadhu pOl" (Jagathratchagam book release function) and all makes one (adhaavadhu me) cringe.

I then have to remind myself of Kamal's comment that we are talking about a talent on par with that or Bharathi (agree, disagree adhu vERa matter, just invoking it for how it provides me an alternative framework to look at it) and who doesn't enjoy Bharathi's arrogance சுடர்மிகு அறிவுடன் படைத்துவிட்டாய், இந்தப் பதர்களையே எல்லாம் என்று எண்ணி இருப்பேனோ etc.

Perhaps had we been contemporaries then, we would have cringed for those too.
Today there is an inevitable mythic, larger-than-life image to it, so we consume his persona with glee.

[KV]

sureshji... adhu vEra department. completely agree with what you say (and in fact, my approach is quite similar too).
msv/ir... pliss continue. my paththupaisa - keeping musical abilities of these legends aside, I think IR's adaptability to changing trends has been better (of the two). MSV, it appears to me, chose to stay away from 'evolution' beyond a certain phase. For all we know, it might have been his personal decision to keep away from the industry, considering the enormity of his bygone career. IR, on the other hand, maybe choose to take the bull by its horn - whether he tamed it is what we'll debate for eternity!

[wizzy]

KV, oh ok..I don't get 'debating' the humility part basically nothing gives..even King Viv's detractors didn't give two hoots about his swagger/lack of humility..avaroda attatha paarthanga kaithatinanga..if and when push comes to shove and say lesser talents like Uttappam try it..we have every reason to cane him.

[KV]

P_R, naan agenda ellaam sollalaye :huh:. So many of us here have been following the man and his music for so long that, by now, even someone with the slowest of grasping skills would have a fair idea of how pompous he can sound at times. Certain lines make us cringe, like you said. ‘Yes, avaru arrogant dhaan, avaru ippidi than, but please let’s move on. You don’t even have to ‘accept’ him the way he is. Let him be and move on’ - is my point. Is this such a difficult ask? So impossible a stand to take? Why should every new speech of his create a whirlpool here? Pozhachchu pOtOm nu freeya vida sollren. Bas itna sa kwaah hai!

[P_R]

KV, neengannA, neenga illainga.
B(K) or Plum reNdu pErla yArO sonnadhA nyAbahau (you two decide between you two).
pooraamE created bimbam-nu ellAm solla thEvaiyE illai. manushan appappo pOdhumAna aLavu fodder kudukka dhaan seyvaar 'ngREn.

maththpadi 'let him be and move on' 'nRadhula very much agree.

[SoftSword]

(aside: thinking aloud, we're all so obsessed with the idea of 'comparison', aren't we? msv/ir, kvm/msv, ir/ar, zep/floyd, sunny/vishy, sach/lara, pele/mar, mgr/sivaji, kamal/rajini... ippidi pOra edam ellaam panchayathu pannidrOm. At some plane, aren't these scuffles indicators of the arrogance within each of us? yet, we will not refrain from pointing fingers at others asking them to mend their personalities. Like IR says, i think fate said to us 'nee ingye kadaa' and we merrily carry on celebrating our lowly lives!)

V_S super post!! edhaartthamaa solringa.. aana padhaartthamaa sila neram pesa vendi irukku...



Agree with u KV! Sila per Arivu Jeevi engira pOrvayila, mayyam.com kku varrathe yaaraiyaachum ethukkaathum thittrathukku thaanOnnu thONuthu! Eppa paaru kaila sombOda alaiyuraanga! Tolerance nna kilo enna vilai nnu kekkuraanga




But Artists like Raja and Kamal doesn't need anybody to be compared with and raise them. Just by thier individual capacity and talent, they both go beyond comparison.


sakala... keela irukka post maela irukka postoda continuityaa... modhallo silaper matthavangala seendradhukkunae varaanga... kaila sombu etc... apram neengalae they are beyond comparision'nu solringa... apdi pesaradhu arrogance illayaa... illa naan thappa purinjuttaen, neenga apdi mean pannalaena sorry for mistaking...

[SoftSword]

KV, neengannA, neenga illainga.
B(K) or Plum reNdu pErla yArO sonnadhA nyAbahau (you two decide between you two).
pooraamE created bimbam-nu ellAm solla thEvaiyE illai. manushan appappo pOdhumAna aLavu fodder kudukka dhaan seyvaar 'ngREn.

maththpadi 'let him be and move on' 'nRadhula very much agree.

P_R,
arrogance'nu neenga solradha self-pride'nu edutthukkalaamaa??
oru artist'ku self-pride irukkanum illayaa... naan nallaa senjirukkaenu kooda nenakka koodaadhunu solringalaa... thaan nallaa senjirukkenu feel pannadhukku apram dhaanae satisfy aagi makkalukku adha kudukka thayaarnra mudivukku varuvaanga...? ellaamae 'maela irukkavan kudukkuraan'nu sollikittae irundhaa apram quality korayara timela 'maela irukkavan adhukku maela kudukkala'nu responsibility koraya vaaippu irukkae... imo, MSV is not in the scene for the past 15 yrs not becos of the only reason that others did not approach him much for his movies, mainly cos he has given up thinking that his time is over and he has already finished the job he is given by his almighty... more becos of his drooping humility... apdiyae melt'aagi kumbutruvaaru(by nature)... remembering a stage scene with rajini next to him... i would not call it lack of faith in him to create more music, he knows he can, but he just thinks that his job is over and he should now give way for the youngsters and not compete with them....
aaan... enna solla vandhaen... epdi mudikkiradhunu therila... oru maadhiri solla varradhu purinjaa sari....

[KV]

KV, neengannA, neenga illainga.
B(K) or Plum reNdu pErla yArO sonnadhA nyAbahau (you two decide between you two).
pooraamE created bimbam-nu ellAm solla thEvaiyE illai. manushan appappo pOdhumAna aLavu fodder kudukka dhaan seyvaar 'ngREn.

maththpadi 'let him be and move on' 'nRadhula very much agree.

If I've got them right, I think the bottomline of their argument also is kinda the same - why should there be a neeya-naana staged everytime he speaks in public? adhdhaan character certificate la 'BAD' nu pOtachu illa, appuram yen marka marka panchayathu? certificate renewal aa?

[Sureshs65]

P_R,

Given Raja's monstrous output and the quality of that output, it is very possible that future generations will say, "This man did so much and did not talk too much about himself. Yes, there are a few videos of him saying "I did this or I did that", but overall avar senjadhukku avar pesinadhu kammi". Maybe because we live the same era as him, we think otherwise.

[raja_fan]

We heard Gowtham saying "Surya called me and told we should make a film with IR music".
Will they use IR for this ??

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/cinema/article3550475.ece

Hit combo, yet again

Director Gautham Vasudev Menon is to join hands with actor Suriya for their third project after Kakha Kakha and Vaaranam Aayiram. The ace filmmaker is to direct Thuppariyum Anandhan in which Suriya will play a detective. Gautham will begin work on Thuppariyum Anandhan after he finishes Yohan:Adhyayam Ondru with Vijay. It is a period flick. Gautham, in a release, said, “I am really excited Suriya has come on board to do Thuppariyum Anandhan with me. An action adventure, it is a period film with a contemporary twist. All clichés associated with making a period film will be broken with this effort.”

Work on the film is expected to start early next year.

[SoftSword]

less chances, IMO.

[P_R]

thappE illeenga, I was only reacting to one statement somewhere (which I am now not able to locate now :oops:) to the effect that: "ellAm edhirkatchikkaaranga yERpaduththina maaya bimbam".

[SoftSword]

yaarukku solringa...?
andha maadhiri oru line sivaji fans solli kaetta nyaabagam...

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

sakala... keela irukka post maela irukka postoda continuityaa... modhallo silaper matthavangala seendradhukkunae varaanga... kaila sombu etc... apram neengalae they are beyond comparision'nu solringa... apdi pesaradhu arrogance illayaa... illa naan thappa purinjuttaen, neenga apdi mean pannalaena sorry for mistaking...

Naan Kaila sombooda paakkuravanga thalaila Nong unnu adikkirenaa. Naan Adichaa mathavanga paathuttu summaa iruppaangaLaa? Beyond Comparision nnu ory totality la sonnen, athu thappunnaa neenga sollaporeenga, naan answer panna pOren. ithu arogaraas kedayaathu.

But sila tones, silaroda tones, of post ellaam arogaraas therikkuthu. Naan athai sonnen.

Nermayaana Panchaayaths um nadakkuthu. Suresh65 posted about that IR-MSV thing, though he don't do this always(avar pannaalum thappillai ngrathu vera vishayam!) sometimes even he does. Ppl like Genesis are arguing with him. Smooth aa thaan poyitrukku. I mean kai kalappu levellukku porathillai.

Thats why i CLEARLY mentioned "yaaraiyaachum ethukkaathum thittrathukku thaanOnnu thONuthu"

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Marubadiyum Marubadiyum, naan, "Raja Rahmaanai Subtle aa, aanaa kittathatta thannoda range kku, athaavathu same Pedestal la vechi pesinaar" ngrathukkaana egjaampuL ellaam post pannen. Raja Sattifikate ready pannuravanga, athai mattum kandukkave maatraanga. Thatswhy we call it bOngaattam

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

If I've got them right, I think the bottomline of their argument also is kinda the same - why should there be a neeya-naana staged everytime he speaks in public? adhdhaan character certificate la 'BAD' nu pOtachu illa, appuram yen marka marka panchayathu? certificate renewal aa?

Athaane! Naanellaam inge post pannaama padichitruntha kaalathulaye, "Mothalla avarkitta mike kuduthavanai solaNum" nnu sollittaangaLe! AFAIRemember, that was said by Devotees thaan, not neetral guys or Ethirkatchi.

[P_R]

yaarukku solringa...?
andha maadhiri oru line sivaji fans solli kaetta nyaabagam...

Sorry, sariyAna post-ai quote paNNAma naan pEsiruka koodaadhu.
Now I am not able to find it :oops:

naan pEsinadhu neengaLum marandhurunga, naanum maRandhurrEn.

[SoftSword]

ungakitta oru argument vechaenae.. paakkalayaa...

[kid-glove]

Ilaiyaraja is Rolls-Royce of a composer that cannot help but profess in its own splendour and class in world of station wagons. Rather tip a hat to Daimler than being drawn to level-playing fields of imported Ford(s)..

[P_R]

P_R, arrogance'nu neenga solradha self-pride'nu edutthukkalaamaa?? illai, arrogance-nE eduthukkalaam. Nothing wrong with the word/sentiment/attitude etc.
naan solla vandhadhE vERa. :sigh2:


oru artist'ku self-pride irukkanum illayaa... naan nallaa senjirukkaenu kooda nenakka koodaadhunu solringalaa... nevaire!
ayyA andha superiority cornflakes is very much part of the satisfaction.

maththapadi MSV yaarunnE enakku theriyAdhu.

[SoftSword]

ada pOppaa neeyellaam oru manusanaattam...

non-veg koodaadhunu solringa ok... muttaikooda setthukkamaattaen'naa epdi??

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Raja had said that "ஒரு இசையமைப்பாளன், அவன் என்னதான் வெளில சொல்லிக்கிட்டாலும், அவனுக்கு மிக அதிகமா புடிச்ச கம்போசர் அவன் தான், வெளில சும்மா சொல்லிக்குவாங்க" At same time he had said "தண்ணி ஊத்திட்டே இருப்பாங்க, கங்கு அணையாம பாத்துக்கணும்"

And in this age of his, if he is able to convince and create expectation for an album like நெப்வு, then surely he has kept, keeping, and will keep that fire alive. இன்னும் பத்து வருஷம் கழிச்சி ஒரு மஹாவீர் வாசுதேவ நாயர் போய் கேட்டா, அப்பவும் நெப்வு மாதிரி அப்ப இருக்கக்கூடிய இளைஞர்களை கவர் பண்ணும்படியா கம்போஸ் செய்யவும் இந்தாளால முடியின்

[app_engine]

I'm just sharing some of my personal fav's of MSV's work in context of our discussion. Each song is tailored to the character and situation. MSV alone would probably never come-up this kinda of song. It is not home cooked song by thinking about music and innovation. Created by the team effort.

Also, totally no intention to discuss which/who is better, Just to show pure appreciation for the master. Sometimes it is good to go back and refresh.


Nice shares, Senthil!

In a way, the youtubes you shared only added to my conviction that MSV depended on others for orchestration and that was one of the reasons he failed to be competitive in 80's progressively (and not because he wanted to "give-up" as imagined by SoftSword).

From those songs shared here, you can see what a lot of variations in standards (between the ones with Ramamoorthy around or Henry Daniel helping & otherwise).

For e.g., take the case of pattinappiravEsam's 'vAn nilA nilA alla' where Joseph Krishna was the 'udhavi' guy, the arrangements are so less harmonic. (It's more of ICM style - solo violin simbly following vocal - no consummate WCM arrangements there IMHO).

It's now known history that with the IR wave, there was steady decline of big-bud movies & revenue to MSV. It also meant some exodus of assistants from his camp. That was possibly the reason for inconsistencies in orch / arrangement standards (great sounds for ninaiththAlE inikkum but very sAdhA sounds for another KB project etc, there was no minimum guarantee for orch. Look at MSV's own production - mangaLa vAththiyam - how horrible the instrumental portions were, couldn't hire a good assistant possibly)

I'm not telling that IR never had assistants or anything like that - but the dependency was / is close to nil for completing the score / composition. They are more of 'execution' people than giving any creative input.

That is the big difference between IR's style of composing v/s most other MDs.

And that's why he is still competitive, getting hired by a star director who worked with the biggest commercial name, ARR, for the prior project :-)

[senthilv.com]

senthil,

One last time :)

I had earlier quoted 4 different movies and four different directors approaching Raja for music. This is not an opinion. It is a fact. All I wanted was to know if such a thing happened with MSV. Ofcourse I didn't ask you this but asked genesis, who didn't reply to that point.

Now staying with facts. Let us take the two recent movies of Raja. 'SreeRamaRajyam' and 'SnehaVeedu' and also take up movies like 'PazhassiRaja' and 'Paa'. All of these created a stir in the music circles and these four were decently successful commercially as well. Again, not my opinion. I hope this will be taken as a fact. All I want you to do is to take the period of 1984 to 1986 and show me 4 such movies of MSV, which were critically acclaimed, talked about and were decently successful. I am not showing you that because I cannot think of 4 such MSV's movies during that period which are of this standard or even of the standard which MSV had in the 70s. If you can think of such movies, kindly let me know. I will surely listen to them and change my opinion if I find the music to be outstanding. I think is as objective as it can be?

---

I must be testing your patience. Bear with me one last time. If this doesn't do it I will resign ;)

Here's a list for you.

1) Iyer the great (1990) the malayalam movie was a super hit in Kerala and TN. Very critically acclaimed. The BGM was great as it is a psychological thriller.
2. Famous Director I.V. Sasi worked with MSV in two or three movie starring Mammooty and Mohan lal.
3) Ariyatha veethikal (Malayalam) Director is K.S Sethumadhavan.
4) He also worked with Director K.Shankar in several movies.
5) Oliyambukal (1991) with Director Hariharan (Pazhassiraja fame)
6) Sivappu sooriyan, hit movie with Rajni as lead.
7) He gave hits film with S.A Chandrasekar - Vijaykanth combo. They were a popular combo during that period.
8) Several movies with Sivaji.


Although I gave some examples, I don't really want contest these facts you mention. I never did. What I'm contesting is your point that MSV musical decline is solely because he was not doing good music anymore and he is not capable of doing good music. I'm pointing out this your deduction. You are assuming if top directors don't go to him, he is not capable to doing good music but that is just an inference. Just like Raja he found some good work with great Malayalam actors and directors. Anyway, the situation for overall decline was lot more complex and probably one could write a book about it than just pinning it down on MSV and his musical capability. I also don't deny the demand for his type of music diminished but not his ability to produce good music. Hope this clarifies.

I also wanted to clarify that I'm not saying you should not make such inference or deduction or it is wrong. You have every right. Only when it goes from inference to fact it seems far fetched.

I feel much a better approach is to take a specific film situation and explore if MSV gave good music for that situation. That would be my approach, I doubt anyone here will follow me on that :)

Some of songs in mid 80's and later that show MSV still great in his elements.

1) En Manakanakku -- This was my fav at that time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_PmQ93SoH8

2) Amazing Kannan Manam song from Vasantha Ragam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqmTC0YfDbk

3) Kasthoori Maankuttiyam
http://youtu.be/_-WYic5_jb4

4) A very inventive saranam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwK_SZ_-4U8

5) Chandana Kudam Ondru
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhkpMY-jycE

6) Athirathram -- I just found this today! Great songs.
Alakalalie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5gDXAUOyaY
Kanikal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFj24Eb700o

[Sureshs65]

Senthil,

Thanks for the links. I have heard some of these and I will listen to the others soon. I don't know much about the Malayalam films though.

As a person who had closely followed MSV during that time, because I was defending him AGAINST Raja, I know how the scenario was then. How the one hour 4 to 5pm Sunday program on Madras A, which I followed religiously in the late 70s and early 80s, saw a program which was initially full of MSV melodies slowly getting replaced by Raja melodies. And this program was based on letters which came to the station and not the station selection. ("madhuraiyilirundu Kanaka, mayiladudhariayilirundhu Mahesh, Nagerkoililirundhu Nagesh etc.) Added to it was my own assessment of his songs during that period. Today if I were to fill my mp3 player with MSV's songs, the no:of songs from 80s will be less. I don't want to go movie by movie on your list but none of the Tamil movies that you mentioned will go into his canon, which is very large by the way. You may consider it my 'opinion' and that is fine by me but I do still hold, having heard the music of those times, that MSV's music did decline in quality during those time. So we will leave it at it as my opinion and not as a fact.

[app_engine]

Sureshji,

I've read pulambals from MSV camp (in some threads here) that one-by-one the top assistants / instrumentalists etc were leaving MSV during the 80's.

Kind of makes sense, if one puts together the situation under which AVM/BR/IR wanted to bail him out with MTK where he needed IR to do the orch. All TFM lovers know what an awesome 1986 album that proved to be.

And later too, people tried some gimmicks like "bringing back TKR to work with him" etc. So, the idea of "MSV retired graciously" is far-fetched as the fact is he lost to have winner assistants anymore and couldn't deliver products acceptable to any market.

Now, all the samples that senthilv has laboriously brought here together to showcase those "MSV-sparkles" during mid-late 80's are not that big in TN (or Kerala) in my observation and only serves to defeat that purpose :-)

These were nothing compared to even what he did when really in competition with IR during late-70's & early-80's (let alone those wonders for MGR-Sivaji movies earlier).

These are samples similar to what BRangan talked about in his comments in the blog ('maragathavallikku maNakkOlam' kind of "radio-only" songs that could be called "hits" by HCFs while in reality TN was reverberating with IR songs everywhere in teakkadai / buses etc - why, even TR songs had a much bigger reach than any of MSV's in mid-late 80's).

[jaiganes]

Sureshji,

I've read pulambals from MSV camp (in some threads here) that one-by-one the top assistants / instrumentalists etc were leaving MSV during the 80's.

Kind of makes sense, if one puts together the situation under which AVM/BR/IR wanted to bail him out with MTK where he needed IR to do the orch. All TFM lovers know what an awesome 1986 album that proved to be.

And later too, people tried some gimmicks like "bringing back TKR to work with him" etc. So, the idea of "MSV retired graciously" is far-fetched as the fact is he lost to have winner assistants anymore and couldn't deliver products acceptable to any market.

Now, all the samples that senthilv has laboriously brought here together to showcase those "MSV-sparkles" during mid-late 80's are not that big in TN (or Kerala) in my observation and only serves to defeat that purpose :-)

These were nothing compared to even what he did when really in competition with IR during late-70's & early-80's (let alone those wonders for MGR-Sivaji movies earlier).

These are samples similar to what BRangan talked about in his comments in the blog ('maragathavallikku maNakkOlam' kind of "radio-only" songs that could be called "hits" by HCFs while in reality TN was reverberating with IR songs everywhere in teakkadai / buses etc - why, even TR songs had a much bigger reach than any of MSV's in mid-late 80's).
I must say that when MSV composed in the 90s for "Engirundho Vandhaan" Satyaraj starrer - music was truly awesome. Ellaathukkume neram, kaalam, koottaaLi ellaam sariya amayanum. this is what raaja cals praaptham and sankalpam.

[app_engine]

Possibly posted earlier but got lost in the amaLi related to BRangan's blog post :



Neethane En Ponvasantham in September?
It looks like fans of Gautam Vasudev Menon might have to wait a bit longer for his next film Neethane En Ponvasantham to hit the screens.
That's because the ace director plans to release the film, featuring Jiiva and Samantha in the lead, late August or September. However, they can take heart that the music of the film is to release in the first week of July.

Says Gautam: “The film is almost ready, but I don't want it to be obscured by the biggie Maatran. So, I will wait for Maatran's release.”
If one is to go by the earlier announcement by the producers of Maatran who had stated they were planning an Independence Day (August 15) release, then, it is obvious NEP will hit the screens only by the fag end of August or early September.

[genesis]

Senthil,

Thanks for the links. I have heard some of these and I will listen to the others soon. I don't know much about the Malayalam films though.

As a person who had closely followed MSV during that time, because I was defending him AGAINST Raja, I know how the scenario was then. How the one hour 4 to 5pm Sunday program on Madras A, which I followed religiously in the late 70s and early 80s, saw a program which was initially full of MSV melodies slowly getting replaced by Raja melodies. And this program was based on letters which came to the station and not the station selection. ("madhuraiyilirundu Kanaka, mayiladudhariayilirundhu Mahesh, Nagerkoililirundhu Nagesh etc.) Added to it was my own assessment of his songs during that period. Today if I were to fill my mp3 player with MSV's songs, the no:of songs from 80s will be less. I don't want to go movie by movie on your list but none of the Tamil movies that you mentioned will go into his canon, which is very large by the way. You may consider it my 'opinion' and that is fine by me but I do still hold, having heard the music of those times, that MSV's music did decline in quality during those time. So we will leave it at it as my opinion and not as a fact.

Suresh - First of all please start treating others on par with you!! (I hope you understand what I mean)

[Sureshs65]

genesis,

An unfortunate comment from you. If I was not treating someone on par with me, including you, I wouldn't be responding and engaging in a debate. Hope you understand :) And would be great if you stop giving gratuitous advice.

[Sureshs65]

app,

I didn't want to do an extensive analysis of the songs and prolong the debate. I fully agree with you and as I said, these will not be a part of the canon of MSV. He was far far greater music director than these songs indicate.

[app_engine]

BTW, listened to those 3 Shreya G sweeties from cheeni kum during the drive to work!

If NEPV has orchestration / arrangment / sounds / recording standards that at least meet these (I hope it will exceed considering the resources given to IR), we have a definite treat there!

[Sureshs65]

app,

I am more than sure that this will be on par with the sounds of Cheeni Kum, if not better. You can also check the jazz part which comes in 'Azhagarsamiyin Kudhirai'. Outstanding work there.

Honestly, I treat this on par with any Raja album and for me, Raja has not disappointed me in all these years :D

[app_engine]

Sureshji,
You know I'm not totally with you there (on giving rAjApArvai to all rAjA albums, nAn innum avvaLavu pakkuvappadalai) :-)

Yuvan pErellAm singers-list'la kEkkumbOthu konjam bageer dhAn :-)

Still, cheeni / PR / pA are three biggies impressive to me in recent years and are closely related to NEPV in the 'what is at stake' question.

That way, I'm sure this album will live up to the hype!

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

it is obvious NEP will hit the screens only by the fag end of August or early September.

Appo Viswaroopam kooda mOtha pOguthaa :lol: Anyways Meesic Hit aaga no roadblocks

[genesis]

genesis,

An unfortunate comment from you. If I was not treating someone on par with me, including you, I wouldn't be responding and engaging in a debate. Hope you understand :) And would be great if you stop giving gratuitous advice.

It is an unfortunate comment I know, but I could not help it. Moreover, it is not a advice but it is a comment on your style of writing.

The second sentence in your reply is not always true. A professor also engages in debate with his students, but he/she is very certain they are there to teach them and know more than them.

[Divine22]

Wow!! NEP in August or September uh ? Arambathule June'nnu sonnange..apperom July'nannge, Ippo ippdiyaa ? awwwww... http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSm4Qjz9QaT16M9nHw6-qYMd5djcgg3hdAkYiDaEChFvUrKpGq9

[jaiganes]

Wow!! NEP in August or September uh ? Arambathule June'nnu sonnange..apperom July'nannge, Ippo ippdiyaa ? awwwww... http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSm4Qjz9QaT16M9nHw6-qYMd5djcgg3hdAkYiDaEChFvUrKpGq9
album might release earlier..

[Sureshs65]

genesis,

I once again say that what you commented was unwanted and unfortunate. I read what I have written to senthilv and I don't find any reason in that post for you to comment that way. And even Professor's engage in a debate only if they respect the students. There are many professors who will ask you to keep quite if they believe you don't deserve their respect.

Anyway, this is not about our personalities. It is about the great personalities of MSV and Raja. So I don't intend responding to you on this subject any more. On the subject of music, we shall always continue our debate.

[Divine22]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRyM0Oj5LyOn7C6cNMN9YKwoUkFZKqvs Ivcw75yRf4WtgHw8Jvl

[Plum]

fullA padikkalai. Music comparison ellAm purinjukka mudiyumnu thONalai. But will respond to this point alone

Great artists should not be judged by the standerts set for normal human beings-nu sollunga rightu.

Anything and everything gets disproportionately attributed to -what gets a tad thoughtlessly bandied about as - arrogance 'nu solRadhu kooda sari.

But, ellAmE edhirkatchi agenda based image- 'nRa maadhiri ellAm solla vENdAngREn.

"yEzhu swarangaLum ennidam viLayAduvadhu pOl" (Jagathratchagam book release function) and all makes one (adhaavadhu me) cringe.

I then have to remind myself of Kamal's comment that we are talking about a talent on par with that or Bharathi (agree, disagree adhu vERa matter, just invoking it for how it provides me an alternative framework to look at it) and who doesn't enjoy Bharathi's arrogance சுடர்மிகு அறிவுடன் படைத்துவிட்டாய், இந்தப் பதர்களையே எல்லாம் என்று எண்ணி இருப்பேனோ etc.

Perhaps had we been contemporaries then, we would have cringed for those too.
Today there is an inevitable mythic, larger-than-life image to it, so we consume his persona with glee.

yOv NAnga Bharathiyin arrogance-ai posthumousA enjoy paNNinOm. ippO ivarOda arogance-ai nErukku nErA enjoy paNdrom. umakku dhAn kuru kurungadhu,

ivarai vidunga - nAnellAm SehwagOda arroganceaiyE rasikkaRAvan :lol:

[Plum]

P_R, naan agenda ellaam sollalaye :huh:. So many of us here have been following the man and his music for so long that, by now, even someone with the slowest of grasping skills would have a fair idea of how pompous he can sound at times. Certain lines make us cringe, like you said. ‘Yes, avaru arrogant dhaan, avaru ippidi than, but please let’s move on. You don’t even have to ‘accept’ him the way he is. Let him be and move on’ - is my point. Is this such a difficult ask? So impossible a stand to take? Why should every new speech of his create a whirlpool here? Pozhachchu pOtOm nu freeya vida sollren. Bas itna sa kwaah hai!

ipdi ellAm vida mudiyAdhu. andha gnAna cherukku is part of the packge. aRpa padharnu solLAdha bharathiya nAn bharathiyAvE Ethukka mAttEn. adhu mAdhiri dhAn. aRpa padharai aRpa padharnu solRadhukkAna thagudhi, urimai ellAmE avarukku irukku. indha faux himility ellAm lords maidhAnathaOda mudioyattum

[Plum]

If I've got them right, I think the bottomline of their argument also is kinda the same - why should there be a neeya-naana staged everytime he speaks in public? adhdhaan character certificate la 'BAD' nu pOtachu illa, appuram yen marka marka panchayathu? certificate renewal aa?
NoOOOOO! I stand up for IR's character. As I PM-ed LM once, idhelLAm nAn vAzhkkaila paNNa thudikkum characteristics. enakku avLo talent illaiyE, adipaNinju pOgiREnE! ivaru ipdi paNNalainA veRa evanukku thagudhi irukkungaREn.
Bharathiyarunga avarukkappuRam ivarunga, purinjukkongappaa

[Plum]

thappE illeenga, I was only reacting to one statement somewhere (which I am now not able to locate now :oops:) to the effect that: "ellAm edhirkatchikkaaranga yERpaduththina maaya bimbam".

irundhA thAnE quote paNnuvinga? :poke: (PM check paNNunga boss :lol: )

That said, anything close to this iyAm dhAn solli iruppEn - my contention is not this. My contention is indha edhirkatchi kAranga ipdi pEsuRadhukku motivation idhu dhAn. There is ofcourse the humiliyu mafia of our society which gives similar comments on IR purely due to humility mafianess. idhaiyum nAn adikakdi solRadhu dhAnE?

[Sureshs65]

app,

:)

I truly believe Gayam-2 was in the same league as 'Paa'. 'andhala lokam' for example, takes a theme similar to the 'Adhu Oru Kana Kaalam' and grows wonderfully around it. And 'SnehaVeedu', what can I say? The master is in peak form as of now and so, inspite of Yuvan, I am very confident of NEVP. Infact I am very confident of 'Gundello Godavari' as well. Looking forward to that album also. Ofcourse I look forward to *every* Raja album :)

[Plum]

suresh - you escaped the trap of defending your character :lol: - this is how they operate. Trying to provoke you on your character and then crying kuiyo muraiyo about your replies. Good you realised it.
genesisku advice paNdra unga character mosamnA, IRukku advice paNNum makkaL character? appappA ninaikkavE mudiyala...

[irir123]

hmm - hollywoodla john williams irukkaar, goldsmith irundhaar, horner, zimmer, desplat, sylvestri, newman, john barry, howard shore etc etc etc innum neraiya per irukkango! aanaa inga hollywood composers fans indha madhiri ellaam adichhikkiradhu kidayaadhu! adhu yennaa, they deal with 'adulation' far differently than we do!

[senthilv.com]

Senthil,

Thanks for the links. I have heard some of these and I will listen to the others soon. I don't know much about the Malayalam films though.

As a person who had closely followed MSV during that time, because I was defending him AGAINST Raja, I know how the scenario was then. How the one hour 4 to 5pm Sunday program on Madras A, which I followed religiously in the late 70s and early 80s, saw a program which was initially full of MSV melodies slowly getting replaced by Raja melodies. And this program was based on letters which came to the station and not the station selection. ("madhuraiyilirundu Kanaka, mayiladudhariayilirundhu Mahesh, Nagerkoililirundhu Nagesh etc.) Added to it was my own assessment of his songs during that period. Today if I were to fill my mp3 player with MSV's songs, the no:of songs from 80s will be less. I don't want to go movie by movie on your list but none of the Tamil movies that you mentioned will go into his canon, which is very large by the way. You may consider it my 'opinion' and that is fine by me but I do still hold, having heard the music of those times, that MSV's music did decline in quality during those time. So we will leave it at it as my opinion and not as a fact.

-----

App_engine,

Wow, some sharp words. My intent was not to show MSV was earth shattering in 80's. He was definitely washed out by Raja wave and phenomenal output. Within the context of our discussion, wanted to show he still gave good songs, may not popular hit but he still had something in his kit and didn't "lose" it. Anyway, I don't have any insider track to tackle any of the things you mentioned so I'm out of this.

Raja is indeed a composer, arranger, conductor, instrumentalist all rolled into one. (I loved the way he conducted Schubert piece in endrendrum raja show) If we use that as a benchmark most music director will fail :)


Suresh,

Agree, he will be remembered for his earlier work without a doubt. My opinion is, it is because of the conditions and set-up more but then I'm not saying anything new and repeating my earlier statements. So I'm gonna bail out of this MSV discussion and return back to Raja -- home ground!

It was a fun ride.

[senthilv.com]

hmm - hollywoodla john williams irukkaar, goldsmith irundhaar, horner, zimmer, desplat, sylvestri, newman, john barry, howard shore etc etc etc innum neraiya per irukkango! aanaa inga hollywood composers fans indha madhiri ellaam adichhikkiradhu kidayaadhu! adhu yennaa, they deal with 'adulation' far differently than we do!



Neenga imdb message boarda konjam paarunga. Same kuthuthaan. We are better civilized! Chinna doubt, Did you mean? Randy newman or Thomas newman?

[Sureshs65]

irir123,

As senthilv says, the 'kozhayadi sandai' there is even worse. Infact we should not be talking about John Williams et al, because it is not music which has 'seeped into the blood' of most people there. Instead we should be talking about rock and pop musicians, as this is seeped in their blood as much as Raja and MSV are in our blood. The fights (in youtube for example) between the fans of these artists no know boundaries. It is when you read them that you are happy about the civilized way we debate here :D

[Sureshs65]

senthil,

Yes. I guess we have both made our statements and anything beyond this will only be a repetition. So let us leave it here :)

[Sureshs65]

Vinatha,

Not want to get into a debate about humility, 'serukku' and all but I personally consider Illayaraja as great an artist as Subramanya Bharathi was. As P_R correctly put it, we would have probably seen Bharathi in different light had he been our contemporary (and there was a bulletin board like this :) ) Purely my personal view: from an artistic point of view Raja in music is on par with Bharathi in poetry.

[Madhanraj]

Hi Guys
We are all united because of his Music... & Not because of his speech or his Views...He also admitted many times that his job is Music and not Speech...Let us enjoy HIS Music which is divine and unites us all....
Madhanraj M

[Plum]

Vinatha - solluvEn. NandrAga nAnooru muRai koori koLvEn(I am not sure you'll get this barathiyaar reference). See, this is the thing. You have so many character prescriptions for IR - bharathiyaar ippO irundhA avarukkum prescription vechuruppinga.

-deleted-

[Plum]

What? People can call IR arrogant just because he has a different opinion to theirs. I canlt call people arrogant for saying that anyone who doesn't agree with their opinion is arrogant. If my post is deleted, delete all posts attacking IR's character. Enakku nyaayam vENum. Nyaayam kaavaali. I demand justice. Why this double standards? Mujhe insaaf chaahiye. Nange nyaaya beku. Enikku vENum jusdice. Why is our society like this? And how come such arrogance by people calling those with different opinion as arrogant is not condemned? Manasaatchi work paNdradhillayaa peopleku? I just don't understand.

[jaiganes]

@Plum and suresh - with you 100% on this..

[irir123]

I was intrigued by IR's requirement of the 108-piece orchestra! why 108 in particular ??!

this afternoon, I was chatting with a jazz musician / singer neighbor of mine, who was enquiring 'so what is going on with your maestro's music these days ?!' and I told her abt NEPV, Angel Studios and the 108 piece orchestra!

and she goes "ah! 108 huh ? isn't that a sacred number in India ? we did 108 sun salutations (surya namaskar) on solstice day - maybe your maestro used the 108 piece orchestra for the same auspicious reason!"

i was flummoxed - did some research and found this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_(number)

so did IR have a non-musical 'reason' for a 108-piece orchestra for NEPV ??

[baroque]

I was intrigued by IR's requirement of the 108-piece orchestra! why 108 in particular ??!

this afternoon, I was chatting with a jazz musician / singer neighbor of mine, who was enquiring 'so what is going on with your maestro's music these days ?!' and I told her abt NEPV, Angel Studios and the 108 piece orchestra!

and she goes "ah! 108 huh ? isn't that a sacred number in India ? we did 108 sun salutations (surya namaskar) on solstice day - maybe your maestro used the 108 piece orchestra for the same auspicious reason!"

i was flummoxed - did some research and found this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_(number) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_%28number%29)

so did IR have a non-musical 'reason' for a 108-piece orchestra for NEPV ??


Hope it's not true!

if it is, that's crazy...Paavam Producer! :sigh2: mottai adi , maattina nalla!

[Devaraagam]

I was intrigued by IR's requirement of the 108-piece orchestra! why 108 in particular ??!

this afternoon, I was chatting with a jazz musician / singer neighbor of mine, who was enquiring 'so what is going on with your maestro's music these days ?!' and I told her abt NEPV, Angel Studios and the 108 piece orchestra!

and she goes "ah! 108 huh ? isn't that a sacred number in India ? we did 108 sun salutations (surya namaskar) on solstice day - maybe your maestro used the 108 piece orchestra for the same auspicious reason!"

i was flummoxed - did some research and found this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_(number)

so did IR have a non-musical 'reason' for a 108-piece orchestra for NEPV ??

I believe its not related to that and as per my understanding about IR, He used to do whatever he thought and wont relate the thoughts to anything. as a fans and others we are relating and get surprised abt it.

[San_K]

as a fans and others we are relating and get surprised abt it.

yes. What it is, I believe the main reason should be intentional grand orchestration. baroque why hard reactions, are you one of producers? they know value of money and value of music also

[baroque]

San_k,

I also posted as 'HOPE IT'S NOT TRUE!'

[thumburu]

With the disclaimer that I have respect for legends like MSV, still I rate Raja several notches above MSV. For me Raja is the most original composer around and not MSV who had to rely on his assistants like Henry, Joseph Krishna, Govatdhanam master and other western grammaphone records to compose music esp for “modern muaic “ . Proof : Me who have witnessed few recorsing sessions . I request pammalar to dig out the “thirumbi paarkiren” series of late director Sridhar in Kalki where he explained the music composing process of MSV in one of his films “veNNiRAdai”? MSV used to pick one record from a stack of records before him and play to Sridhar for him to select and may be he developes the main melody with the approved foreign tune as base. But I learnt that was the norm those days esp for modern tunes

[jaiganes]

With the disclaimer that I have respect for legends like MSV, still I rate Raja several notches above MSV. For me Raja is the most original composer around and not MSV who had to rely on his assistants like Henry, Joseph Krishna, Govatdhanam master and other western grammaphone records to compose music esp for “modern muaic “ . Proof : Me who have witnessed few recorsing sessions . I request pammalar to dig out the “thirumbi paarkiren” series of late director Sridhar in Kalki where he explained the music composing process of MSV in one of his films “veNNiRAdai”? MSV used to pick one record from a stack of records before him and play to Sridhar for him to select and may be he developes the main melody with the approved foreign tune as base. But I learnt that was the norm those days esp for modern tunes
playing devil's advocate here - probably our person has memorized all the western songs and plays the one "he" has chosen to the diretakkar.

[Sureshs65]

thumburu,

It was probably a norm those days that the music director was generally the tune smith and he had assistant(s) who did the orchestration. In some case the music directors were a duo in which case one did the tune and the other the orchestration, generally. Jaikishan was supposed to very good at orchestration (those he also did tune) and Shankar did the tunes well. Similarly I think Ramamurthy did the orchestration in the Vishwanathan Ramamurthy combine. Pugazhendi did most of the orchestration for K V Mahadevan. You can see the consistency in KVM's songs because Pugazhendi was with him till KVM breathed his last. We all know that Raja himself has done lot of orchestration for G K Venkatesh. Other famous examples include Jaidev, himself a great music director, who was an assistant for S D Burman and Gulam Mohammed (who gave music for 'Pakeezah' and 'Mirza Ghalib') had worked as assistant to Naushad. Even R D Burman, who was good in orchestration, had others like Manohari helping him in orchestration. (I think Sapan-Jagmohan) were also R D B's assistants. So in this case MSV was not alone.

Raja, that way, is a very unique music director in Indian film industry. Someone who writes every bar of his music. I have heard that Salil Da also used to write most of his music but I don't have confirmation on it. That is one reason why a lot of talented music directors, like Sarath for example, as in awe of Raja. And so are others who have interacted with him. In the 'Nothing But The Wind' concert, Uttam Singh mentioned that he had done arrangement for music directors like Naushad, Madanmohan etc but has never seen anyone like Raja who can do everything. That is one reason there is a consistency in Raja's music even though his style kept changing over the years.

[thumburu]

playing devil's advocate here - probably our person has memorized all the western songs and plays the one "he" has chosen to the diretakkar.

allov ellOrum nallavare politeness personified MSV advocate, as I hail from the metric stream, ingrained in my bloodstream, the more in house memory capacity and reproducing ability, the more the chances of qualifying the candidate with flying colors whether it is exam or appointment . So is it any surprise Raja scores over copy book reference seeking MSV ?

[MelHarmony]

Ayyayyoo!
After reading GVM comments in Hindu about 'NEPV release date shifted to September', NEPV should not ultimately become like Nandhalalaa (OR) Mayilu!
From this context, I feel GVM has 'cleverly' planned the release of his bigger films before NEPV as a mitigation for retaining his own market (just in case the NEPV bubble bursts). I am sorry! this thought is coming to my mind for the past few days....

Anyway let us hope for the best!

[V_S]

Does this mean, the audio release will also be postponed?

[Sureshs65]

V_S,

From what I heard, No. The music release must happen in July. The film release is postponed not the music release.

[P_R]

baroque, as the guy who brought in Bharathi, I feel obliged to respond.

Compare paNNadhukkE kOchuguneengaLE :lol2:

I think Suresh put the point across more succinctly than I managed to - that had he been around now and there was a bulletin board like this, he'd be discussed like this too.
As you may know, he was criticized during his time for not sticking to poetic conventions (both in form and content). Indeed there are very critical studies of Bharathi now that question even the veracity of his social outlook. (I am not saying it isw right, but the very existence of contrary opinion means something, right?).

And where the people he arrogantly dismissed all contemptible? Definitely no. His நடிப்பு சுதேசிகள் is a indictment of the moderates in the Congress. Just because they didn't share his sense of urgency and methods- which we can't even say was well founded -he chooses to roundly poetically diss them. We enjoy the poetry because it rises above the particular nature of the context.

We can perhaps discuss in the bharathi thread. silapala vedigundugaL veesa vasadhiyA irukkum :lol2:

[SoftSword]

PR, plis to do the honours.

[app_engine]

Anyway, I don't have any insider track to tackle any of the things you mentioned so I'm out of this.


Senthil sir,

Me definitely have no insider connection :-)

ellAmE veRum kEttaRivu (of TFM for > 4 decades) maRRum padiththaRivu (mostly in the tfmpage / hub & TN tabloids / kumudam / vikatan) mattum dhAn :-)

nanRi thumburu & Sureshji for substantiating my hypothesis :-)

Now, a small caveat (to this "IR-is-greatest-IFM-composer" thingy) :
He often needed "catalysts" to bring out the best in him. While there had been great songs / scores for some kuppai movies & directors too, it is irrefutable that he was consistently better when working with talents like BR-MR who had good ears for music or otherwise & could trigger the creative fountains inside IR.

That way, this Gautam association is very keenly anticipated!

[equanimus]

Purely my personal view: from an artistic point of view Raja in music is on par with Bharathi in poetry.Personal-ஆ நீங்க அப்படி நினைச்சா போதுமா? இதை நீங்க தகுந்த தரவுகள் தந்து நிறுவணும். ஒரு rigourous ஆய்வு முன்வைக்கப்படாத வரை, என்னைப் போன்றோர் இதை ஏற்றுக்கொள்வது கடினம். ராஜா தான் greater!

[app_engine]

raj & vijayr are still in that MSV discussion on BRangan's blog :-)

Interesting to see R Sundarrajan being dragged in ( i.e. like IRF's feeling he shouldn't be compared with MSV, MRF's can also feel he shouldn't be compared with Gautam it seems).

R Sundarrajan is not a correct comparison as he was far from someone "sticking to IR or only modern" :lol2:

His first film was with IR - payaNangaL mudivadhillai.

Second?
With KVM!

andha rAththirikku sAtchi illai, with that beautiful song 'ethir pArththEn iLankiLiya kANalliyE' (raaga.com erroneously mentions S-G as the MDs :-( It was an agmark KVM song)

Then he came back to IR for nAn pAdum pAdal. He did another with KVM, 'thoongAtha kaNNinRu onRu'.

So, it was no big deal that he did one with MSV, sugamAna rAgangaL.

Ofcourse, RS was the director for MTK where MSV-IR combo happened for the first time.

So, wrong comparison - nalla vELai BRangan didn't take that route, making Gautam = RS :-)

[layman10]

Because Bharathi's work is done in selfless manner, does mean it has to be better than someone else's art and cannot be compared. Can I argue his work is not better than an another freedom fighter poet who never wrote an apology letter to British in the fear of being in Jail?.