Khan Saheb Kamal Haasan's Jamaat/Jeba Koottam/Devasthaanam - Part 8

[sathya_1979]

sangamE abaraadhathula Odudhunnu theriyum, edhaachum maaRi irukkaanu paarthEn, same blood :wink:

[P_R]

Through a quick reading, I understand that I am still waiting for the tea: My question "Also, pilees to the enlighten what all pitfalls of Islam were "condemned" in Hey Ram?" to ur Hey RamlayE theLivaa sollirukkaarE statement.
Hey Ram-layE avarudaiya nilaipAttai therivichaachu.

thOL-la thuNdu pOttu 'ippo islaathai thittinA dhAn aachu'nu kEkkareengaLEnnu sonnEn.

adhula Islaathai thittirukkAru-nnu ellAm sollalalai.


maRumuRai varuvadhaaai cholli
mAindhavar vandhadhE illai
thodarvadhu naamE naaLai
varuvadhu vERoRu aaLE


idhellAm messiah-based Abrahamic religions paththina criticism illaindreengaLA.
MunnAdi inippA pEsi pinnAdi muttai adichcha Altaf

Anyway, no point. Force paththalai. Guru Sishyan Prabhu mAdhiri: "Emendes, ennai eppadi ellAm adichiyO, adhu mAdhiri avanai adi" -nu solla pOReenga.


and none addressed / explained that he do have enough knowledge or have the guts to speak out against others. appo idhu enna panjumuttAyA? :
So, if you are accusing him of being equally bound by the constraints then oh sure.

I want a stinging critique on Islam. appo nee veeran-nu oththukkuREn. adhu varaikkin I will summarily ignore your critiques against Hinduism-nu sonneengannA :sake hands:


btw, his 'good' critiques are embedded in the stories:

nee kumbudura ramasamy-E... appadinnu Hey Ram-la dhaan solla mudiyum
appuram yEn Gandhiyaiyum, [B]Ramanaiyum /B] kaatti indha maadhiri iru-nu sollaNum - appadinnu Mahanadhi-la dhaan kEkka mudiyum

[P_R]

sangamE abaraadhathula Odudhunnu theriyum, edhaachum maaRi irukkaanu paarthEn, same blood :wink:

System working espetted -nRa mAdhiri dhaanE podhuvA pOduveenga
andha template theerndhuruchA.

[sathya_1979]

Thanks for re-inforcing my view points and thanks for your time. "adhu varaikkin I will summarily ignore your critiques against Hinduism-nu sonneengannA :sake hands: " - atleast enakku idhu out of scope as I never bought into his hollow / biased arguments based on prejudice.

avarOda fans ellaam avar "ellaa" thappaiyum thatti kEkkaravar (Dnt ask for quotes / posts, general POV here and elsewhere), rational, balanced ellaam solreeyaLE, uNmaiyaanu paarththen. Proven incorrect.

But, thanks for all your responses and others like Bala, Grouch etc (This conversation and others as well). It helped me approach arguments objectively without getting overly emotional. nanRi hai :)

Hinduism, Islam or any other religion for that matter kiNdal senjaalum, condemn senjaalum, support senjaalum I am no way bothered. aanaa, thirumba thirumba oru neutral maadhiri false propaganda nadakkudhE, oru vELai uNmaiyOnu nenachEn, illenu theLivaa sutti kaattitteenga.

[sathya_1979]

Finally 1 Hey Ram <> Countless bile spouting in other movies, interviews, public speeches....

[P_R]

In my humble opinion, the word neutral should be banned.

[irir123]

in the overall analysis, Hey Ram was the closest Kamal came to engaging us (at least me!) in a profoundly intellectual way - there have been a few flash points of brilliance in other films which are more artistic/aesthetic in nature - but strictly from the point of view of making films with themes that have strong socio-political themes, his presentations have been UNneutral (neutral thaane banned ?!)

[P_R]

"adhu varaikkin I will summarily ignore your critiques against Hinduism-nu sonneengannA :sake hands: " - atleast enakku idhu out of scope as I never bought into his hollow / biased arguments based on prejudice.

Finally 1 Hey Ram <> Countless bile spouting in other movies, interviews, public speeches....

Bile paththAdhu. innum niRaiya thitta vENdi irukku.
But konjam subtle-A, azhagA paNNaNum. That's all I want.

[venkkiram]

Can we start listing Hamal's hindu bashing from so far movies? Not to prove anything. Just for record. Let us see how each one of us view those dialogues. In kamal's own words "thedith theerpom vaa! "

[Anban]

Can we start listing Hamal's hindu bashing from so far movies? Not to prove anything. Just for record. Let us see how each one of us view those dialogues. In kamal's own words "thedith theerpom vaa! "

Yes let's start ... ready 1, 2, 3 ...

[equanimus]

Actually I think people miss how important any sort of engagement is. It's not just about whether one is pro as opposed to anti or vice versa. You can't be opposed to brahmin hegemony in the proper sense without engaging with a non-brahmin world. (maththappadi, sEthu-la varRA mAdhiri "nammavALukku eppavum pattA dhAnE puriyum"-nu uLLukkuLLayE reNdoru kural irukkaRadhu sAdharaNam.) Similarly, by merely critiquing Hindutva ideology, one doesn't become anti-Hindu in any sense. To even be non-Hindu (in one's films, I mean), one has to minimally traverse the ethos of other cultures/worlds.

[equanimus]

Can we start listing Hamal's hindu bashing from so far movies? Not to prove anything. Just for record. Let us see how each one of us view those dialogues. In kamal's own words "thedith theerpom vaa! "Actually, isn't there a simpler thought experiment which would also be much more authentic? How many Muslims are out there who feel Kamal is pro-Islam?!

[irir123]

pro-islamnu yaarunga sonnom ? anti-islam aaga irukkanumnu yaarum kattaayapaduthhalaye ? anti-hindutva aaga irukka koodathunnum sollalayey ? konjam balancedaa irundhaa yenna kuraichalnu thaana kekkurom ?

[SoftSword]

adhaavadhu, neenga viruppadramaadhiri avar irukkanumnu nenakkireenga... illaya?

[irir123]

SS - makkal theerpey magesan theerpu illaiyaa ? andha makkalsla naanum oruthhan thaane ? viruppadakkoodadhaa ?

[SoftSword]

artist ilukkura iluppukku makkala konduvaranumnu dhanae podhuva solluvaanga...
makkal kaekkuradha kudukkuradhula enna creative freedom irukku?..

[equanimus]

pro-islamnu yaarunga sonnom ? anti-islam aaga irukkanumnu yaarum kattaayapaduthhalaye ? anti-hindutva aaga irukka koodathunnum sollalayey ? konjam balancedaa irundhaa yenna kuraichalnu thaana kekkurom ?I put it that way because you earlier said "pro-islamic rhetoric," but anyway, I'd extend the same logic to the anti-Hindu label too. The way I see it, Kamal's films are too seeped in Hindu identity/culture to be anti-Hindu. At a minimum, one should qualify his films as Hindu in some ways. That's my basic point here.

[P_R]

if one strips away the communist BS, the film wud be less than an hr and half long!
kizhinjudhu.
adhai stip away paNradhunnA veedhi naadagamE pOttirukka vENdAmE!

The ubersimplification of veedhinaadagam is presented as is. Milton Friedman and JK Galbraithe discuss the role of the state in the economy - ellAm padaththukkuLLa vachchA, endhirichu tea saapida pOyiruvAnga.

adhukku mEla enna perusA BS-ittAru?


vAzhkkai pudhayalappA valuththavan eduththukkappA
avanavan vayithukku dhaan vAzhvadhu thappA


vs


aduththavan vayithukkuLLa un uNavu illaiyappA
eLaichavan pasichirundhA indha maNNu thaangAdhappA

idai sonnadhukkE ennavO Mao, Stalin ellArukkum clean-chit kuduththa mAdhiri solreengaLE :lol2:


idhula religion based disgruntlement vERaiyA. anbEsivam-nu title vachchA appuram 'Sat Sri Akal' nu sollittu kolai paNRa Sardarji villainA vaikka mudiyin?

Equal-A, neutralA irukkaNumnA, aduththu 'anbE yEsunAdhA'-nu oru padam edukkaNum. manu kuduppOm.

[sathya_1979]

Yaarum edhuvum kattaayappaduththalai. False self portrayal paRRidhaan pEchchu.

[P_R]

False self portrayal paRRidhaan pEchchu. enna false self portrayal?

[sathya_1979]

enna false self portrayal?
naama kadandha oNNarai naaLaa edhai paththi pEsikkittrukkamO adhu

[Bala (Karthik)]

How can you accuse Kamal of false self portrayal just because you want exactly equally weighted criticisms, kindals against all religions in his films? It is your problem, not his. That does not make him a "lesser" atheist by any means. Of course you can be disappointedand angry with him for not being equally vociferous, adhu vera vishayam. I, being a believer, find theists more problematic than atheists and agnostics. The posts by Cinefan and irir exactly prove my point and I hopeand I'm reasonably sure that those on the right will find Viswaroobam problematic. I just hope what PR (and I) fear will not happen (double sided mathala adi) - I don't have to be a fan of everything Islam, terrorism and regression to say this

[sathya_1979]

"him for not being equally vociferous" - avLodhaan naan solla vandhadhu. BTW, why I should not allege based on the line which I quoted from ur post? I NEVER mentioned about atheism here. That is entirely out of scope for me. It's about the balance WRT criticizing religions. avLodhaan.
periyavar: "I, being a believer, find theists more problematic than atheists and agnostics.".
adiyEn: I believe in exactly the opposite. Opinions are like "you know what", everybody have one. Everybody is biased and select points which suits them / which helps them do business. Nobody is balanced, nobody is rational.

[Bala (Karthik)]

I will reverse the argument. I haven't seen a single convincing or heart felt condemnation of "our" shameful practicesfrom the groups which question periyar, kamal - not one, online or anywhere else. First adha seri pannittu apparam kamalagasanukku varalaam. For starters (this is not aimed at specific individuals here), practicing Brahmins have no locus standi in any of these matters. Zilch. Mum by default. Those who shed that identity completely can talk (applies downwards accordingly)

[Bala (Karthik)]

I hope my tone is not misunderstood. In a way it is self critical too

[sathya_1979]

I will reverse the argument. I haven't seen a single convincing or heart felt condemnation of "our" shameful practicesfrom the groups which question periyar, kamal - not one, online or anywhere else. First adha seri pannittu apparam kamalagasanukku varalaam. For starters (this is not aimed at specific individuals here), practicing Brahmins have no locus standi in any of these matters. Zilch. Mum by default. Those who shed that identity completely can talk (applies downwards accordingly)
I guess you are not the authority to define who should question what. I am proud that I touched ur nerve :lol2: BTW, discrimination ellaam ellarum seiyyaradhudhaan, paramakudi thuppaakki soodu and kalavaram year after year - pooNal pOttavangaLaa munna ninnu nadaththaraanga? Let all those who did a crime / mistake / blunder apologize - and then expect apology. illaatti thappE seiyyaadha oru group vandhu thappa sutti kaattatum, mannippu ennaa kaalla vizharadha paththi kooda pEsalaam.

[sathya_1979]

BTW, thanks to you too for ur time and posts. Helped in understanding counter POV. But, as always, this will not go any further as pointers and counter-pointers are not going to change.
adhanaala natpaa bye bye sollittu indha discussion close seiyyalaam. What say?

[Bala (Karthik)]

Sathya
Why this confrontational stance? You didn't touch my nerve but missed the point I'm trying to make. Mobile la detailed-a type panna kashtama irukku...

[kid-glove]

The way I see it, Kamal's films are too seeped in Hindu identity/culture to be anti-Hindu. At a minimum, one should qualify his films as Hindu in some ways. That's my basic point here.

Just like how atheists qualify as 'theists' in some ways to Gray, fellow skeptics and homeless people.

[Bala (Karthik)]

"applies downwards accordingly", "in a way self critical too" ......^
This is about caste *identity*, the mere existence of it, which in my opinion should go. and it starts with my kurupp.

[kid-glove]

Kamal is anti-hindu, Woody is anti-jew, why is that I'm more worried of P_R being anti-football. :twisted:

[P_R]

I am proud that I touched ur nerve :lol2:
Oru kalakkaththathai yERpaduthuradhu dhaanE avarum seyyuraar. :lol2:
Again I refeat - ippo ellAm avvaLO azhagaana seyyuradhillai.
VR - pArppOm
GM: enna aappOm?

[Bala (Karthik)]

And Sathya, if I am not the authority on who should question what, why is Kamal being demanded to do this and that??? Why is he alone subjected to the demands of the "authority"

[Bala (Karthik)]

Equa
Can you elaborate on why Kamal's films areHindu and generally the point you are making about one being "engaged"? Not sure if I follow

[P_R]

"applies downwards accordingly", "in a way self critical too" ......^
This is about caste *identity*, the mere existence of it, which in my opinion should go. and it starts with my kurupp.

Actually idhai paththi virivA eppayaachum pEsalAm. Actually what is meant by saadhi ozhiyaNum. What are the markers, practices we are talking about? I don't think we engage with this question deeply enough.

[sathya_1979]

No No, no confrontation and all. Unga opinion and understandingof KH neenga sollirukkeenga, I found his view points as shallow and not worthy to pay heed to. avLodhaan. Based on my life experiences, I have formed opinions on certain subjects - Religion, Atheism, Casteism, Balanced Criticism etc. When our POV does not match with others, decentaa hand-shake senjittu poidalaamngradhudhaan ennOda karuththu.
aduththavanga namba POV accept seiyyalEngradhukkaaga veRuppu, virOdham etc etc - I am not for that game. I always know your opinions as well that of others (apdinnu nenachittrukkEn) - Based on what I inferred from ur posts all along. adhu enakku oththu pOgalai. avLodhaan.
maRRapadi respect on you people as well as KH as a "Film Artist" never diminished. Believe it or not, onsappaanyatayam I was a Die-Hard KH fan, started moving away after entry of topics about atheism and Hindu Criticism (Or Maybe when I started realizing that those are being fed through the movies).
namakku pidichcha idolOda views namakkum pidikkaNumnu avasiyam illayE

[P_R]

Kamal is anti-hindu, Woody is anti-jew, why is that I'm more worried of P_R being anti-football. :twisted:
You Dawkinsian ruffian!

[sathya_1979]

And Sathya, if I am not the authority on who should question what, why is Kamal being demanded to do this and that??? Why is he alone subjected to the demands of the "authority"
Rational kittErundhu "Balanced" criticism dhaan edhirpaakkaRom, criticismE paNNa koodaadhunnu solla endha rightum illainu enakku theriyum :)

[sathya_1979]

Actually idhai paththi virivA eppayaachum pEsalAm. Actually what is meant by saadhi ozhiyaNum. What are the markers, practices we are talking about? I don't think we engage with this question deeply enough.
Brilliant. idhukkudhaan ungaLa maadhiri padichavanga vEnumgradhu. Define the parameters - Then, we shall define the system. nalladhu nadandhaa sari. idhai paRRi pEsumbOdhu revolution paRRi kalki la padichcha oru line dhaan nyaabagaththukku varudhu - The meaning of Revolution in today's world - It is not about creating equality but mere transfer of power from one group to another group.

[Bala (Karthik)]

Actually idhai paththi virivA eppayaachum pEsalAm. Actually what is meant by saadhi ozhiyaNum. What are the markers, practices we are talking about? I don't think we engage with this question deeply enough.
Yes, and racism, conditioning, prejudice etc...
Have you read outlook S.Anand's piece on himself and his wife (about his Brahmin background)? We may or may not share his views on undoing everything to rid oneself of that identity, but I found it interesting.

Is it ok to be a cultural Brahmin (food, baashai to kids etc)? Does that identity (however mild and moderate) come with so much baggage and conditioning that some kind of subtle elitism and perception of superiority creep in? Is the exhibition of these markets harmless or offensive to victims?

[Plum]

Why is Kamal demanded to espouse the opposite view point? Simply because he hits the truth pretty damningly. I have to confess I have traversed from sathya's state to the current state so I see *exactly* where sathya is coming from. Kamal criticises the difficult-to-accept aspects of certain cultural aspects(I wont give ownership of those aspects to Hinduism or hindutva) in a way that makes those aspects pretty naked.

Therefore, as someone who is unwilling to accept the naked truth, I sort of develop a wish that Kamal actualyl does the same to some naked truths on the "opposite" side. Because, when he does it my "opposite" side will get the damning it is due.

It is not that Islam doesnt get its criticism in Indian movies - Telugu movies nakedly parade their anti-Islam. Well, not exactly because it is not as if they understand Islam and expose the problems with it. They simply create villains of the sort that the "Kamal is anti hindu" brigade would want. That is to say, if you wanted Nasser in Anbe Sivam to be a moslem spouting bismillah, you would actually find that in these movies. And it is pretty mainstream and *completely accepted as normal* in Telugu. But then , they dont have the validity that a Kamal critique in his movies will provide.

Therefore, when I anguishedly ask :Why doesnt Kamal criticise Islam as he does Hindutva:, it is because if he does, he'll do it in a way that will make me feel good about my opposite side also being damned.


I think Bala hit the nail - frameworklErundhu veLiya vandhA dhAn purinjukka mudiyum ((nAn frameworklErundhu veLiya vara but OraLavukku purinjukka mudiyudhu. maybe i am in the border

Idhu epdinnA

Kamal: Religion is the opiate of masses etc. (shows "hindu" aspects as religion which he decries)
Podhu janam: islathaiyum solluppA! nAnga bad dhAn othukkarOM. avanum bad-nu sollu

idhai thAn P_R pointed out that avar perumbAlum "hindu" charactersaiyE damn paNninAlum, hey ram simply makes it clear that he is damning everyone.

But what people want is the alpa satisfaction of seeing the opposition also damned.

I am pretty clear about it as I have had the opportunity to be the Onayi from both sides in my life.

The simplest way to end this is to simply grant that eithe a) Kamal is a coward who cannot criticise Islam or b) Kamal is a hypocrite. This should not be hard to do as if someone has to go beyond this understanding, well if they do they wouldnt need your explanation about what exactly Kamal is standing for. I am the clearest example of someone who crossed that line of undersanding of my own - after rejecting any number of explanations that offered to translate Kamal for me.

[sathya_1979]

Food? How is that offensive? Veg mattum saaptta non-veg sappdravangaLukku insultingaa irukkumaa? :roll:

[kid-glove]

Welcome back. Now off you go.

[sathya_1979]

Yeah! vara vechitttOm :clap:

[Plum]

Actually idhai paththi virivA eppayaachum pEsalAm. Actually what is meant by saadhi ozhiyaNum. What are the markers, practices we are talking about? I don't think we engage with this question deeply enough.

I'd settle for something as simple as "taking pride in one's jaadhi" and "nAn bad sari but enakku opposite jaadhiyum bad-nu sollu" kind of thought-processes being extinguished.

[Bala (Karthik)]

Food? How is that offensive? Veg mattum saaptta non-veg sappdravangaLukku insultingaa irukkumaa? :roll:
Food offensive illeenga :lol: Having or doing something to express one's Brahminism, as against choices we make as individuals without that baggage.

[sathya_1979]

aduththa kELvi: If we can take pride in our language / nationality, why not for caste? Instead of pride, maybe we can say veRi and discrimination of others in the name of caste.

[Plum]

AmAm pinnE ingE irukara sollO sappaiyA pEsikittirundhInga. konja nAL kodanAdu pOnyi rest eduiththA ipdi weightA matter pEsaRInga. oru manushan enna dhAn pAndradhu?

[sathya_1979]

Food offensive illeenga :lol: Having or doing something to express one's Brahminism, as against choices we make as individuals without that baggage.
Identity - As long as it does not insult, harm, discriminate others - not a problemnu naan nenaikkirEn. Take for example pooNal - The foremost identity - Say, a person believes in some rituals which require pooNal (Just like any other religion). As long as he does not say / behave in such a way that he is superior "Just Beacuse" of his pooNal, why pooNal should be considered offensive?

Analogy - kaththi vechi vegetable cut paNNalaam, kolai paNNalaam - adhu yaen eppavumE kolai seiyyadhaan payanpadudhunu nenaikkaNum? kolai senjaan dhandanai, vegetable cut senjaa saappadunu irukkalaamE?

Why blame markers or tools for the acts of people who use them?

[sathya_1979]

AmAm pinnE ingE irukara sollO sappaiyA pEsikittirundhInga. konja nAL kodanAdu pOnyi rest eduiththA ipdi weightA matter pEsaRInga. oru manushan enna dhAn pAndradhu?
he he, photography pakkam divert aayittEn. adhaan :). also, maybe more mature now to approach counter-arguments without getting emotional. If it convinces us, edhuthukkalaam, illainaa discussion senjittu poidalaamnu oru nyaanodhayam

[Plum]

Welcome back. Now off you go.

Your Wish...Off I go!

[Bala (Karthik)]

Sathya
I find the identity of caste itself as vulgar. Language, nation, gender are attributes that are not be definition hierarchical (adha vechu naan periyavan nee sinnavan nu adichukkalaam adhu Vera). OTOH, the notion of caste is completely different.

[kid-glove]

Historically and nationally privileged identity-a puncture koothinE irukkaaru (a trait he shares with certain politicians and certain political parties, therefore the trait itself must be political and if it's political, it's hypocritical. Follow the logic?), no wonder the extended vitriol and negative comments that he gets from the presupposed intellectual class of social networking age..

[Bala (Karthik)]

Historically and nationally privileged identity-a puncture koothinE irukkaaru
Adhe dhaan

[sathya_1979]

Sathya
I find the identity of caste itself as vulgar. Language, nation, gender are attributes that are not be definition hierarchical (adha vechu naan periyavan nee sinnavan nu adichukkalaam adhu Vera). OTOH, the notion of caste is completely different.
Agree, same is the case with designation and hierarchical structure in an organization - I guess over a period of time, the hierarchy had lost the true meaning of - You wanna achieve or reach certain level, you should have certain attributes / skill sets.

[kid-glove]

Your Wish...Off I go!

You're soft.

They have to ban me, to get me out of here. Fact.

[Plum]

And I'll withdraw into my rocks under with this:

Apropos nothing, Rahman's tamil announcement in IIFA :thumbsup:. edhukku sonnAr, epdi sonnAr mukkiyamillai. A big slap in the face of north indies bubble. When MammokkA criticises Bolly mentality in the same IIFA, it is just a shot in the dark. But when someone of Rahman's stature does it, it is a huge, huge slap on north indies inward looking, self-navel gazing attitude. idhula uLLa sentimentai partisan apdinnu naNbar sathya counterA eduthukka vAippu irukkuu so let me quote git clove about "puncturing the PRIVILEGED identitty", and claim exemption from hypocrisy.

[Bala (Karthik)]

I have a friend who is an atheist but is on the "right" side and strongly favors Hindutva viewpoints. He sees Hindu religion as having merits over other religions/cultures and he doesn't let it interfere with his atheism. Doesn't make him a hypocrite nor will I ask him to be an equal opportunity attacker. Well I may actually ask that but not because he is an atheist

[Plum]

To clarify, I meant Rahman's stature in North Indies. Not that Mammookka is of absolute lesser stature than Rahman. Directhit and Murali Srinivasaiyum pre-empt paNnidarEn.

[sathya_1979]

Nan eduvumE sollaliyE :) look at my post wrt that speech.

[Bala (Karthik)]

Plum
Daily our nalla tropic discuss pannuvom, vandhu ponga

[Plum]

VaruvEn - When England stuff South africa in the test series appO varrEn..

[Bala (Karthik)]

:rotfl: Now I know. England > Ponting for you :teeplight:

[kid-glove]

Plum incidentally is the only Anglophobe to not turn me off. Yet he's the most intensely Anglophobic person in the hub.

[SoftSword]

wowie... wb plum...
innum force'a edhirpaakkuraen...

btw, :clap: to sathya....


and puncturing the previlage... recenta paattha oru b/w pada dialogue:
it is the duty of a newspaper to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.
adhadhaane seiyaraar?

[equanimus]

Equa
Can you elaborate on why Kamal's films areHindu and generally the point you are making about one being "engaged"? Not sure if I followI mean engaging with the ethos, the worldview of a culture. My contention is Kamal's films are seeped in a Hindu worldview in this sense. He invokes Gita in thEvar magan. Here's another thought experiment. Would a Vetrimaran or Ram do something similar with the same subject material? ?In anbE sivam, for a film with a fair degree of socialist/communist leanings, he sees it via the prism of god, traces the message to thirumUlar and so on, instead of merely dismissing the idea of God as the opium of the people and sticking to a materialist worldview. The approach is very different from how a radical-left director like Jananathan would have done it.

And it's not like this is an unrecognized dimension in his films. Many of the Tamil lit mag critics have routinely criticised him on these grounds. The individual criticisms may or may not be valid (often they are one-dimensional) but there's a certain truth to them.

[SoftSword]

he he, photography pakkam divert aayittEn. adhaan :). also, maybe more mature now to approach counter-arguments without getting emotional. If it convinces us, edhuthukkalaam, illainaa discussion senjittu poidalaamnu oru nyaanodhayam

sathya...
plum avar kodanaadu pOnadha patthi pesittu irukkaar... neenga yaen kurkure saapidreenga...?

[equanimus]

The last film he wrote was dasAvathAram for crying out loud. Let's begin from the beginning; why did he even make such a film? :) It's the sheer proximity that offends people, I say!

[kid-glove]

Even Hitler loved Jews in some qualified ways.

[kid-glove]

Awkward silence. Sorry lads, I'm just a sad, twisted individual with no taste.

[kid-glove]

And keeping it short, longer paragraphs means more typing and it feels like work.

[kid-glove]

Moving on to Viswa, Circumcision should be KH's first real area of concern..

[equanimus]

Hitler wanted to kill the Jews and imagined a world without them (even if one could argue he couldn't have lived without them). But seriously, come on, k-g. It's the exact opposite here. The Jew is the other for Hitler, the upper-caste Hindu is the self for Kamal.

And just to add to what I've said in the previous posts, do you seriously suggest Kamal's treatment is not seeped in Hindu mythology which is VERY UNLIKE how (to repeat my example) a Jananathan would do it? It's never just about what one's (sincere) standpoint is. The people who find a space in one's films, the people who are represented is absolutely crucial. Is it only to vociferously criticise brahminism that he spontaneously keeps returning to brahmin milieus, Hindu mythology in his films? (Note that brahmins haven't been proper antagonists in his films as the Zamindars once were in Indian films. Now, that would be the kind of portrayal that would be properly aligned to the Dravidian movement.) They simply are around in his films. He criticises their values and so on, I'm not arguing otherwise. But isn't there more to it than just that?

[kid-glove]

http://www.posterparty.com/images/tv-big-bang-theory-sheldon-bazinga-poster-TRrp1533.jpg

I was messing with you. Like I often do. (See the later posts)

I know what you're hitting at.

In a manner of speaking, even Welles put it about THE atheistic filmmaker of all time, 'He is a deeply Christian man who hates God as only a Christian can, and, of course, he's very Spanish. I see him as the most supremely religious director in the history of the movies.'

[P_R]

Equa, k_g is just being flippant. You should have inferred that from the fact that, no one in their right mind can be less than deferential to Sachin.


In a manner of speaking, even Welles put it about THE atheistic filmmaker of all time, 'He is a deeply Christian man who hates God as only a Christian can, and, of course, he's very Spanish. I see him as the most supremely religious director in the history of the movies.'

idhAru? Bunuel-mbAingaLE? avarA?

[P_R]

indha mAdhiri discussion-gaLla devil's advocate-A irukkuRavan kooda total-A tharisAguradhukku dhAn vAippu adhigam. irundhAlum kattAyam indha thyAgaththai naan senju dhaan aagaNum...


Sathya, I find the identity of caste itself as vulgar. Language, nation, gender are attributes that are not be definition hierarchical (adha vechu naan periyavan nee sinnavan nu adichukkalaam adhu Vera). OTOH, the notion of caste is completely different.

Race, ethnic identity of any sort, tribal roots (Africa mudhal North East states varai) problem idhu dhaan.

In the olden days when we here of wars between Kings, isn't it a war between two contesting ways of life? That's right 'ways of life'. In some cases it was religion, in others it was caste (a broad definition of it). Someone going to war is going there prepared to die for a way of life, isn't it?

Can you imagine a Saivite-Vaishnavite fight now? When Kadalangudi Natesayyar built the SivaVishnu temple in T Nagar, I guess it must have been a great step forward in intergration :lol: Today most of us are: theriyumadA, reNdum oNNu dhaana dA, kozhappureengaLE dA :lol:

In the past caste (and religion) defined a complete way of life. This is true to much lesser extent now than earlier. Dtill it is important to remind ourselves that it is very much true even today - much more than we would like to acknowledge - but naan pointukku varEn...
The question I always like to ask is - do we today feel a sense of affinity for a stranger of one's own caste. i.e. feel an affinity simply because he belongs to one's own caste (namma paya). Most of us feel no such thing. But for our parents, grandparents would have felt that way. The identity was more important to them.

And even in their case I allege, it was largely to do with how a certain caste dictated a way of life, even including education, exposure, employment etc.

Now, we all still judge people based on education, exposure, employment etc. But these are primary considerations and therefore caste is relegated to the background. i.e. we aren't "better" people than our previous generations. Just that the social relevance of caste has watered down.

The way such a thing goes out of the window is by social irrelevance.

I will refrain from making the shaky argument that caste can persist without discrimination. That is not something I can say with certainty. But it is certainly true that over time there has been a great decoupling.

Ambedkar argues exceedingly well in his treatise "the Annihilation of Caste" that it is impossibly for caste to exist without discrimination. That, it is either a genuinely naive pipe-dream or intentionally duplicitous line of thinking to say caste can exist without discrimination.

And it had to go. Of course, being the thinker that he is, he saw caste for what it was - a social institution that rose from the ground over time- rather than as a cunning scheme whose sole purpose of existence was subjugation. And most importantly he observed that the urge to preserve caste identities is definitely not something top-down but across the board in the hierarchy.

Which is not surprising because caste was coupled (more so in the 1930s than now) in shaping an Indian's personality just as much as other forms of identity - language, religion etc. Imagine what it means to say that in the 1930s when people were offering pussyfooted compromises, that the whole thing needs to go and intermarriages are the only way out!

Beyond this point the questions here need to be inward. Because in a public debate, people feel compelled to respond, defend their positions etc. and it is hardly productive.

Now forget identity for a moment. There are people who fall in love and walk out of their families to marry. To them their individual choices are more important. The family is less relevant to them. (note: I am not talking about intercaste marriage or anything, yet. Just talking about viewing marriage as an individual choice vs. extension/addition to a family tree)

Now, who can marry outside their language? The one's who think that that is not a fundamental part of their identity. That they feel they do not need such a shared cultural root to make a relationship work. Can't share literature, pop-culture references, idioms, cultural mores. But all these could happen to be less important to some people. More important to others.

Same for religion, same for nationality and same for caste. All of the above have happened in my family and close friends' circle. In each of the cases I have seen an intial whimper and then it becomes about the person - and like all marriages it's been about give and take. Quite possibly the case with many of you too.

It is as and when a 'shared cultural background' becomes more and more irrelevant that these identities will dissipate.

The point to note is: its only when a cultural continuity becomes irrelevant that an individual can make such choices.

Now, one curious thing may happen. The family can still take up the identity of more dominant partner. Or it can take on a mix of identities from both partners and what is felt as irrelevant baggage will drop and a new identity will get created. But it is my opinion that some sort of identity will exist.

Personally, I don't think we will ever become like America, or for that matter those of Indian origin in other countries - who can't trace their ancestry back to more than 4-5 generations. It is only in such contexts of substantial absence of social history can caste 'vanish'. In our case, I think it will continue to exist, but what it means will keep changing. And changing for the 'good'.

[P_R]

btw naan solRa social irrelevance ellAm oru small sliver of the population-ku dhaan.
For most of the people caste oppressive reality - it has not gone anywhere, we can't remind ourselves enough of that.

Recently in Kammapatti, the local Kambalathu Nayakars stopped sending their children to school because the saththuNavu koodam was manned by Dalits. And so the government transferred the Dalit staff :shock:

The additional collector defended this discrimination by saying: 'this is a peculiar habit of that caste to not eat food cooked by other castes'. Check out this article (http://www.firstpost.com/india/why-untouchability-makes-tamil-nadu-the-most-lopsided-state-368799.html) - ignore the dumb title!

And mind you TN is one of the leading states when it comes to social mobility of Dalits. ingayE indha nilamai - with govt supporting discrimination to boot - then just imagine the situation in places in North Indies.

Remember Periyar came out of Congress, because they were using party funds to support the gurukulam in Cheranmadhevi, where permission was given to brahmin boys to dine privately, because their parents did not want them to dine in a samapandhi bOjanam. And that was in the 1920s!

[venkkiram]

I recently came across this quote and find it very meaningful. (except F word usage)

http://i.imgur.com/VZlyv.jpg.jpg

[P_R]

Typically superficial point by Carlin.
ketta vArththai sonnA indhaaLu cool-aam. sariyAna mokkai.

[venkkiram]

Typically superficial point by Carlin.
ketta vArththai sonnA indhaaLu cool-aam. sariyAna mokkai.
இல்லைன்னாலும் செறிவான கருத்துதானே!

[P_R]

இல்லைன்னாலும் செறிவான கருத்துதானே!

What is "I" ngradhu dhaan saar panjAyaththE.

[venkkiram]

What is "I" ngradhu dhaan saar panjAyaththE. இப்போ கார்லின் இருக்கிற இடத்துல கமலஹாசன் என எழுதி இதே வாசகத்தை (கெட்ட வார்த்தையெல்லாம் நீக்கி) முக நூல்களில் உலவ விட்டால் ரசிகர்களிடமிருந்து நிறைய பாராட்டுக்களை பெறுவார். சந்தேகமேயில்லை. ஏனென்றால் அவர் நமது வேர்களை எல்லாமே அசைத்து வருவபர்.

[sathya_1979]

:lol: Me - Blood, You - Tomato satni

[P_R]

Carlin is not funny.
Tries had to be insightful - I can't take too much naked anger. enakku ellAthulayin nAsookku thEvai.
So he comes across as a bit of a bitter smartass to me.
On the other hand Louis CK is :thumbsup:

[P_R]

:lol: Me - Blood, You - Tomato satni
Sir, B(K) ellAm theeviramAna Carlin visiRi.

[sathya_1979]

Sorry, ivangaLLaam yaarunu theriyaadhu. padichittu varrEn, pEsalaam (Now back from Billa and having dinner at Midnight :oops: )

[groucho070]

+1 with P_R on Carlin. Never quite dig him...

[Bala (Karthik)]

Sir, B(K) ellAm theeviramAna Carlin visiRi.
Was. Ippovum Carlin-ku oru soft corner, respett etc but becoming a Louis CK visiri (thanks to you for introducing)

[sathya_1979]

Suggested reading / speakers on atheism please - Without reference to religion, I mean only "No God" speakers / writers

[P_R]

Suggested reading / speakers on atheism please - Without reference to religion, I mean only "No God" speakers / writers :lol:
adhAvadhu saamiyE illaingalAm
aanaa illAdha saamiyai thittappadaadhu

adhaan illainteella, appadiyE pOyiru

[sathya_1979]

:confused2: What I meant was - Discussions about existance and non-existance of the entity called God (As a power / force) and not about what the religious scriptures explain as God.
Idha purinjikka avLo kashtamaa? :roll:

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Hi Sathya, some random links, ensoi :)

http://www.facebook.com/IndianAtheists
http://dharumi.blogspot.in/2012/07/577.html - Superb jokes on Theism
http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html -> Is There a God? Does God exist? Here are six straight-forward reasons to believe that God is really there.

All taken from this thread -> http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?9857-Atheism-amp-Rationalism&p=891444&viewfull=1#post891444

Also, if ppl here are interested, I would like to post about ur grouse - Kamal not neetral... My stand is, he is very much...

[sathya_1979]

Welcome Welcome, eppadi ellaarayum koottiyaandhEn paartheeyaLaa :)
Sure, please post, weekend padichittu discuss paNrEn

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

நெம்பநாளா வண்டி சர்வீஸ் விடலை, என் தப்புத்தான் :( எல்லா மக்கள்ஸுக்கும் மிக்கமிக்க நன்றி :) இனி சரியா ஓட்டுறேன்

அளவா வண்டி ஓட்ட சொன்ன ஜோ & nov, க்கு பெசல் நன்றி!

[sathya_1979]

Yeah yeah, past is past, enga rest edukkaNumO anga eduththu appuram Ottunga. romba nEram non-stoppaa Ottunaa fatigue aayirum
<<End Dig>> Catch u all tomorrow

[equanimus]

http://www.posterparty.com/images/tv-big-bang-theory-sheldon-bazinga-poster-TRrp1533.jpg
Equa, k_g is just being flippant.Ha ha ha! Oh yeah, got that he's being flippant but elaborated further as I wasn't sure if he basically agreed with the characterization Kamal's films as spiritual/Hindu. I've put forth this argument earlier too, but there are not many takers. Personally I think the debates on how anti-Hindu/brahmin Kamal is are tiresome. To a lot of fans, he's a Gandhian, a Periyarist and everything else in between that's automatically supposed to be a good ideology; to detractors, he's a thoughtless atheist putting forth his views just to offend others, sides with anti-Hindu forces and so on. இரண்டு பக்கமும் பெரும்பாலும் ரொம்ப மிகையான கருத்துக்களையே முன்வைக்கறாங்க. It's high time he (as a filmmaker) got recognized for what he is.

[Cinefan]

More than 10 pages,uff!

Post 826 from P_R :clap:

No tayame but ippodhaikku 1 point: B(K),my post was only about countering you on your perspective tilted extremely to the right comment.Can't understand what made you think people like me are a greater problem?????

This discussion,I have not touched on Kamal's ideologies,perspective etc etc etc.Ennoda previous stand therindhu,enna refer pannengala???If yes,even then please to explain what is so extremist about my views?

[KlamRoyA]

//sakala... welcome..welcome... :)

[kid-glove]

Was. Ippovum Carlin-ku oru soft corner, respett etc but becoming a Louis CK visiri (thanks to you for introducing)

Carlin-ku cut out, mathavellam get out.

Louis CK, don't like his youtube output. Fan of his TV show. 2nd Season has gone on to another level.

[Plum]

One thing is if we go beyond mere symbolism and the need for explciit "damning of my opponent or the opposite side", is that it is implicit that criticism of certain aspects of "hinduism" contains same damnation of corresponding aspects in other religions. Namakku thEvai enlightenmentnA adhai apdiyE eduthukkalAm. Note the discomfort of muslim theist bros and sisters even in this thread about his views on religion although he hasn't explicitly damned "islam" as much as "hinduism". Equa already covered this point - and I am not pointing to specifics either. Indha threadleye irukku thEdi pArunga. The beauty is he seems to impact everyone at the level they engage. SuperficialA anti-hindu-nu engage paNNA, he hits hard at your beliefs. IdhaiyE indhu munnAni mAdhiri aNuginA "ivan adoi madiyila kai vekkuRAndA" type of reaction is inevitable. That is, he is shaking the foundation of all that we stand for, dangerous phlow, apdinnu thONum. And I have some examples of deep thinking islam counterparts of sathya who realise that what he hits out at "Hinduism" is not something to feel gleeful about. They realise the very same criticism is also adi madi kai vechings for them and their beliefs and have the exact same reaction as sathya and cinefan. Dangerous phlow, this kamalagaasan. Really, the problem only comes when you take a "my group" vs "other group" approach - in which case the plane at which you are engaging is different from the plane at which it is intended.

[Cinefan]

and have the exact same reaction as sathya and cinefan.

Naan enna sonnen ippo???????????I presume my name is being referred to on the basis of my comments 3 years back after the UPO release and some random subsequent posts on this issue.

[raajarasigan]

//dig Welcome back Plum-ji & sakala.. have a pleasant stay :p //end dig

[SoftSword]

//dig Welcome back Plum-ji & sakala.. have a pleasant stay :p //end dig

//ennappa... ECR resort receptionist yarayachum correct pannitteengalaa??

[SoftSword]

enakku nemba pudicha topicla discussion pOittu irukku...
mutthu mutthaa eludhirukkaanganu theriyudhu... aana neraya vaarthai/mozhi puriyala... kamal threadla irukkom... front benchers'kum edho puriyanum, elite'kum puriyara madhiri konjam layering use pannugna pls...
nee etthinaanglaas varikum padchirkka?? appo unakku vaeramaadhiridhaan sollonum..

[raajarasigan]

//ennappa... ECR resort receptionist yarayachum correct pannitteengalaa??apdi illa.. thirumbavum pOiduvAngaLonnu thAn....

[Bala (Karthik)]

PR
I don't quite "feel" the caste identity is identical and implies/evokes the same things/reactions within the self, to begin with, that the other identities mentioned here evoke. They may have started as ways of life. What does caste mean *now*, having the baggage it has and causing the effects it has caused? By clinging on to that identity, what are we saying overtly/implicitly?


The question I always like to ask is - do we today feel a sense of affinity for a stranger of one's own caste. i.e. feel an affinity simply because he belongs to one's own caste (namma paya). Most of us feel no such thing. But for our parents, grandparents would have felt that way. The identity was more important to them.
And even in their case I allege, it was largely to do with how a certain caste dictated a way of life, even including education, exposure, employment etc.

Now, we all still judge people based on education, exposure, employment etc. But these are primary considerations and therefore caste is relegated to the background. i.e. we aren't "better" people than our previous generations. Just that the social relevance of caste has watered down.

Get your point but i don't think it's a fair comparison at all (judging on education/exposure/employment being a replacement of juding by caste). It is a lesser evil way to judge. Class discrimination ellaam prachanai dhaan but adhukku apparam varuvom.





The way such a thing goes out of the window is by social irrelevance.

I will refrain from making the shaky argument that caste can persist without discrimination. That is not something I can say with certainty. But it is certainly true that over time there has been a great decoupling.

I do think people feel an affinity even now. This generation. Which is why the identity itself must go, discrimination laam eppadiyo ooduruvidum nu thonudhu. I don't share your optimism when you say we have seen a great deal of decoupling. I get how different things are from the past but it is not good enough.



Ambedkar argues exceedingly well in his treatise "the Annihilation of Caste" that it is impossibly for caste to exist without discrimination. That, it is either a genuinely naive pipe-dream or intentionally duplicitous line of thinking to say caste can exist without discrimination.

And it had to go. Of course, being the thinker that he is, he saw caste for what it was - a social institution that rose from the ground over time- rather than as a cunning scheme whose sole purpose of existence was subjugation. And most importantly he observed that the urge to preserve caste identities is definitely not something top-down but across the board in the hierarchy.

Exactly




Personally, I don't think we will ever become like America, or for that matter those of Indian origin in other countries - who can't trace their ancestry back to more than 4-5 generations. It is only in such contexts of substantial absence of social history can caste 'vanish'. In our case, I think it will continue to exist, but what it means will keep changing.
Agree

[Bala (Karthik)]

Yeah, read about this in the Indhu. Vaazhga baaradham :lol2:

btw naan solRa social irrelevance ellAm oru small sliver of the population-ku dhaan.
For most of the people caste oppressive reality - it has not gone anywhere, we can't remind ourselves enough of that.

Recently in Kammapatti, the local Kambalathu Nayakars stopped sending their children to school because the saththuNavu koodam was manned by Dalits. And so the government transferred the Dalit staff :shock:

The additional collector defended this discrimination by saying: 'this is a peculiar habit of that caste to not eat food cooked by other castes'. Check out this article (http://www.firstpost.com/india/why-untouchability-makes-tamil-nadu-the-most-lopsided-state-368799.html) - ignore the dumb title!

And mind you TN is one of the leading states when it comes to social mobility of Dalits. ingayE indha nilamai - with govt supporting discrimination to boot - then just imagine the situation in places in North Indies.

Remember Periyar came out of Congress, because they were using party funds to support the gurukulam in Cheranmadhevi, where permission was given to brahmin boys to dine privately, because their parents did not want them to dine in a samapandhi bOjanam. And that was in the 1920s!

[Bala (Karthik)]

WB Sahala

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Like SS, Enakkum ithu fav topic thaaan!

P_R's #826 post padicha appuram, ithellaam post paNNanumaannu thONuch! But, irunthaalum, pala nALA sollanumnu nenaichathu! Warning:- Sila points romba pazhasaa irukkalaam, "ithellaam ellaarukkume therinjathu thaane?!" kind!


Why he should not? When he can "point-out" the pit-falls of his own - Portraying himself as a neutral (Atheist, Agnost etc) who condemns the pit-falls without bias to spread awareness / promote rationalism etc, why not Islam / Christianity / XYZ.....?
Christianity, as said by P_R reg hey Raam, Varuvathaai sonnavar vanthathe illai...

Islam, Local, Indian rooted film edukkum bothu Local issues thaane solla mudiyum? Afghan Taliban's araajagangaL & Koran/Bible la lrukkura absurdities solla mudiyumaa? context irukkaathe.

I remember he wrote an article, Urainadai type of Poem in Vikatan long back, that is the eye opener for dumbs like me to tell that there is something called Holy War and how it started. Wiki la poi padicheengannaa mandai suthidum, antha loooooong historical, origins of Islam vs Christan clash pathi, surukkamaa, 3/4 pages la sollirunthaaru. Athellaam frame pottu maattaNum. anybody has it?!? So there, he talks about sins of historic Islam/Christian clashes.

UPO was just a remake but it thrown lots of controversies. Mostly, some irritation among Islam bloggers...

Our Joe has written about some of his dislikings UPO wrt to Islam characters, in his blog -> http://cdjm.blogspot.in/2009/09/blog-post_23.html.

Below is an article about few fellow Islam tamil bloggers got irked with Kamal's stance/dialogs in UPO and went ahead to meet kamal directly, and shot their questions, the meet was arranged via Director Ameer.

விமரிசனத்தை நேருக்கு நேர் நின்று கொண்டு எதிர் கொள்ளும் கமலஹாசன்

கமல்ஹாசனுக்கு நெருக்கமானவரான திரைப்பட இயக்குநர் அமீரிடம் நமது கண்டனத்தைக் கூறி கமல்ஹாசனிடம் தெரிவிக்கக் கூறினோம். அதற்கவர் கமல்ஹாசன் இந்துத்வா சிந்தனை கொண்டவரில்லை. நீங்களே அவரை சந்தித்து விவாதியுங்கள் என்று கூறி கமல்ஹாசனுடன் சந்திப்புக்கு ஏற்பாடு செய்தார் 09.10.2009 அன்று நமக்கு ஒரு மணி நேரத்திற்கும் மேலாக ஒதுக்கித்தந்தார் கமல். வழக்குரைஞர் ஜெய்னுல் ஆபிதீன் மற்றும் ஜி.அத்தேஷுடன் 'முஸ்லிம் சமுதாயத்தின் மீதான ஊடக வன்முறை, உன்னைப் போல் ஒருவன் படம் தந்துள்ள பாதிப்பு'' ஆகியவை குறித்து விரிவாக உரையாற்றினோம். அந்த உரையாடலின் சில பகுதிகள்...
http://dondu.blogspot.in/2009/10/blog-post_19.html
http://dondu.blogspot.in/2009/10/2.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


UPO remake, max few changesdhaan paNNa mudiyum. The point is abt own/ straight movies and thoughts shared in public


வெட்னஸ்டே படத்தின் கதாநாயகன் நஸ்ரூதீன் முஸ்லிம் என்பதாலும், ஆரிஃப் என்ற ஒரு நல்ல முஸ்லிம் அதிகாரி காட்டப்படுவதாலும், இந்திப்பட உலகில் இப்படம் முஸ்லிம்களுக்கு எதிரானதாக பார்க்கப்படவில்லை.

நான், ஆரிஃப் என்ற பாத்திரத்தை நல்லவராகக் காட்டுவது மட்டும் போதாது என்று மேலும் பல மாற்றங்களைச் செய்தேன்.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

thanks Bala, SS, raajarasigan, this very short hiatus was useful :)

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Can we start listing Hamal's hindu bashing from so far movies? Not to prove anything. Just for record. Let us see how each one of us view those dialogues. In kamal's own words "thedith theerpom vaa! "

Sure, But also list the favourable things too he has done towards Hindu Religion. As equa said, titling his film with "Anbe Sivam" from Thirumoolar's Thirumanthiram itself is an indirect praise on that religion.

So many good songs, Spiritual kind. Maasaru ponne varuga, Abiraami anthaathi in Guna, 2 songs in Dasavatharam, Sriranga song from Mahanathi... Has any film shown the aesthetic beauty like those?

And what about those do-good & say-good hindu characters in his films, which are around him. like the Maamiyaar in Mahaanathi etc. Even Poornam, to some extent. You can see these kind of characters filled and ppl only take up the bad hindu characters in his films.

I don't know how this opinion will be received -> All the Bakthi padams show atheist characters as bad/villain or atleast non believers and finally something "happens" and they are Transformed as Bakthi Maans! Not even one character where Kamal changes them into, or totally converts his ideologies. Everybody, from Poornam viswanathan to Maddy of Anbe Sivam, are just let off as it is. Even the dialog goes like this in Anbe Sivam

Maddy: Enna maathiriyaana design ithu, enna kadavuL ithu, intha maathiriyaana samayathula thaan kadavul irukkaaraangura santhetame varuthu
(and looks at kamal, his mischievous mild laugh!)
Suddenly maddy changes tone :lol: Illa, KadavuL irukkaaru! (does something like, kannathula pottukkurathu :lol : )

He is just he and doesn't "convert" anyone! and all he does is asks some strong kostin which still lies unanswerable by believers.

So, the bottomline is, if you make a list of the things, he, according to you, takes a hit on Hindu, also in parallel run a list of merit things he had / done said about Hindu, either directly or Indirectly. So there he does some sort of Balance!

[SoftSword]

his title names itself speaks something very deep... edhukku kurippa andha pera choose pannanum..
dhasaavadhaaram... viswaroopam...
ulagatthukku edho solla varraar... is a lumpsome topic to discuss... periyavanga pesinaa nallaarukkum..

[aceqoxim]

So many good songs, Spiritual kind. Maasaru ponne varuga, Abiraami anthaathi in Guna, 2 songs in Dasavatharam, Sriranga song from Mahanathi... Has any film shown the aesthetic beauty like those?



+1. Especially paartha vizhi and sriranga songs. Enakku remba naala oru niggling doubt. To what extent is KH's influence on the lyrics? Kallai mattum kandal lines ellam , as an agnostic I can relate to it very well. Athuthaan ketkuren.

[sathya_1979]

@ 861 - The discussion started with balance about criticisms and not about balance WRT portraying + and - , which I always felt is skewed towards - without balance.
All onger posts - Will come back tonight.

[SoftSword]

stardust,
to the extent that the lyrcis writers think with kh's brain, and kh speaks with the writer's mouth..

[P_R]

What does caste mean *now*, having the baggage it has and causing the effects it has caused? Now it has much reduced social relevance. X 'lives' the same way as Y. The differentiators are vastly reduced (again for only a smaller section of the population than we are willing to acknowledge). It has little meaning beyond that.

Where the differentiators seem exclusively alive is in the domestic sphere - the language registers, the rituals, modes of worship, cuisine and so on. These do not rankle me. In fact there is - probably irresponsible - kururuppu in trying to keeping alive these. Particularly because they seem fairly innoccuous, there is no ill-treatment of fellow humans etc.

indha sadangu seyyuradhai nippAttaNum- 'nRa mAdhiri ellAm sollavE mAttEn.
I am becoming more and more of a sucker for rituals, surprising what's left of my former teenage self. That is for another day.
I am also vehemently opposed to the argument that 'religion ellAm veettula vachchukkunga' (Kamal's stand is kinda on these lines). Religious experience is very much social and out in the open.

thiruvizhA, kumbAbishEgam, oorvalam (of course, one has to be aware of the newfounded vinayagar oorvalam - which is intentionally political in nature), thEr - all of this I would certainly like to continue.

In Kandadevi, thEvars take exception to Dalits participating in the thEr izhuththal. Periodic vettukuththu, police protection etc. In such circumstances, people tend to say: "ippadi oru thEr thEvaiyA...*#%# religionum vENdAm oNNum vENdAm...veetula saami kumbittukkunga".

I couldn't disagree more with that approach. This is what life is. These moments of joy, the moments when one can try and momentarily aspire for something larger. And if we are not civilized enough and need police protection to conduct ourselves here, I don't think that is a waste at all.


By clinging on to that identity, what are we saying overtly/implicitly?
One thing for sure that is not being implied (but is always alleged that this is implied) that one is trying to attest the hierarchy.
Do you think so?

S.Anand ellAm super comedy. idhu engappan moonji, en moonji mEla ottai vachuttu pOyittAn..asingam asingam range-ku guilt.
To the extent that he will feel at ease only if he decimates every bit of his identity. oru mAdhiri vambadiyA senjA mAdhiri irukkum.
Not even judging him for that - actually I am, just that I find his 'ippadi ellAm senjA dhaan enakku nimmadhi' kinda funny.



Get your point but i don't think it's a fair comparison at all (judging on education/exposure/employment being a replacement of juding by caste). It is a lesser evil way to judge. Class discrimination ellaam prachanai dhaan but adhukku apparam varuvom.

I said that to show the decoupling over time. I wanted to point out the class-caste overlap.


I do think people feel an affinity even now. This generation. Which is why the identity itself must go, discrimination laam eppadiyo ooduruvidum nu thonudhu. I don't share your optimism when you say we have seen a great deal of decoupling. I get how different things are from the past but it is not good enough.
Affinity-nA...eppadiyA irundhaalum ivan namma paya - ivanai podhuvula vittu kudukka koodaadhu..appadi ellAmA? Quite rare I say. Nearly noone would think like that.

Of course the infamous FB comments after Paramakudi shootout, the Law College padichcha pasanga mOdhal etc. exceptions are there. But that is hardly typical, is it?

OTOH I should acknowledge a sense of, what do I say...enga veetulayum ippadi seyvAnga, same-pinch range-ku sillythanamAna bonding. But I consider that fairly innocuous.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

//Digg

This post doing rounds in FB, twitter. Great one to read!

https://www.facebook.com/notes/stalin-rajangam/%E0%AE%9A%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%A4%E0%AE%BF-%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%9F%E0%AE%A8%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%A4-%E0%AE%A4%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%B0%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%AE%E0%A E%A3%E0%AE%99%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%B3%E0%AF%81% E0%AE%95%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95%E0%AF%81-%E0%AE%8E%E0%AE%A4%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%B0%E0%AF%8D%E0%A E%AA%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%81-%E0%AE%8E%E0%AE%B4%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8D%E0%A E%AA%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%AA%E0%AE%9F%E0%AE%BE% E0%AE%A4-%E0%AE%95%E0%AF%87%E0%AE%B3%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%B5%E0%A E%BF%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%B3%E0%AF%8D/463949656948690

The crux of the article -> Inside TN, Media and Social Networking mostly discuss caste issues in the plane Brahmin vs non Brahmin. But the atrocities of the other (dominating)castes inside Rural TN is not widely discussed

End Digg//

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Devar vs Dalit, indirectly hidden under General rural violence
Brahmin mis beliefs
General Hindu mis-beliefs, vagueness in hindu beliefs
Anti-Muslim acts,
Hindu vs Muslim
International Islam (VR, notreleased though)

Wow, Though Haaser has covered only minor number of issues and there are much more left, but still the impact :notworthy:

[irir123]

'International Islam' patthi sonnaa, koodave 'Internationally irrational Islam' patthiyum vivadham seivvaar endru nambuvom!

[Sunil_M88]

Satyamev Jayate : Untouchability - Dignity for All with subtitles

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7OUoXsryE3c

[kid-glove]

Visu pannadhadha ivar panraaru..

[kid-glove]

Unlike Visu, this guy is now taking credit for random incidents as a 'social change' that he brought out, out of nowhere.

[equanimus]

Visu pannadhadha ivar panraaru..What nonsense-nga. The last episode on untouchability (the Tamil dubbed version is on Vijay TV right now) was excellent. Has there been a SINGLE instance where Visu's show has done anything remotely similar to this?!

[Plum]

edhaiyumE indhila alladhu englisla sonnA namakku nallA irukkum dhAn...it's called abradwajranganitis

[equanimus]

Come on, Plum, it's not all the same. I totally understand the reaction "oh but didn't we all know this already?" But there are two things here. One, even what we know, discussing it on such a platform is something remarkable. Visu's show has never done anything remotely close to discussing caste issues. It has always been about a totally different narrative -- poor family, uzhaippAl munnERudhal and so on. Secondly, the show actually brings forth specific issues that are also easily forgotten because it's our reality. For instance, the discussion on manual scavenging in this show. How do you see all this as same old same old? Even for the Tamil public sphere world which is generally more alert to such issues than other parts of India, this is something remarkable.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Comparing what Visu done and aamir done itself is totally needless. What are you going to achieve by finding who is more greater?!? "Keeppukku poranthaa enna, ellaame sugapprasavaa thaane poranthOm" ?!?

There is no harm caused to soceity becos of these kind of shows/ppl. Ippadi ellaam senju extra publikutty thedikittaa kooda thappilla, but actually we need more no of such ppl!

[kid-glove]

Come on, Plum, it's not all the same. I totally understand the reaction "oh but didn't we all know this already?" But there are two things here. One, even what we know, discussing it on such a platform is something remarkable. Visu's show has never done anything remotely close to discussing caste issues. It has always been about a totally different narrative -- poor family, uzhaippAl munnERudhal and so on. Secondly, the show actually brings forth specific issues that are also easily forgotten because it's our reality. For instance, the discussion on manual scavenging in this show. How do you see all this as same old same old? Even for the Tamil public sphere world which is generally more alert to such issues than other parts of India, this is something remarkable.

Barka Dutt ammani kooda indha madhiri specials-lam panni irukku, okay-va?

[kid-glove]

edhaiyumE indhila alladhu englisla sonnA namakku nallA irukkum dhAn...it's called abradwajranganitis

:thumbsup:

I think it's also easier for Hindi/English platform precisely because there's a sufficient distance from sensitive regions (in question).

Studio engayO irukku, national audience..

[kid-glove]

Aamir's crying is worse than Visu. Idhu mattum manipulative illaiya enna..

[kid-glove]

"One, even what we know, discussing it on such a platform is something remarkable."

sollavE illa...

[wizzy]

K-G.. our society will be quick to heap scorn on the stars if they were to speak on these delikate matters..so kudos to Aamir for going against the grain..Barkha dutt pandrathum Aamir pandrthum onnaguma :huh:

[kid-glove]

K-G.. our society will be quick to heap scorn on the stars if they were to speak on these delikate matters..so kudos to Aamir for going against the grain..Barkha dutt pandrathum Aamir pandrthum onnaguma :huh:

Ohhh.. stars speaking on delicate matters will go against them?

But when stars do a manipulative azhugachi show, it'd not go for them too?

In fact, I find media sucking up badly to Aamir..

And let's face it, Aamir probably wanted to do reality show channelling his 'otherness'. I'm not saying there's genuineness in him to do this, but it doesn't mean what he did is something as 'delikate' as it's made out to be. In fact, Aamir is known to build persona and stature precisely for stuff like this. He takes up on some specific issues, even his films like TZP, RDB, 3I, etc.. and straddles a cliche ridden route. But for taking this issue, he takes credit for 'social awareness'..

I was watching Star world, Anupama Chopra show. I was shocked to see the guy taking credit for some random incident where an elderly women is asked to take back her aashirvad of 'be blessed with a son'.. re.Female infoeticide. He brackets that as a 'response' to his show. You have to question such intentions.

[kid-glove]

Meanwhile on stars and social awareness

Jackie :lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3SEIRZBlcA

[wizzy]

Ohhh.. stars speaking on delicate matters will go against them?

ask SRK..he was termed 'Paki' when he spoke about Pak players in IPL.


But when stars do a manipulative azhugachi show, it'd not go for them too?

mileage is given..the end justifies the means..I don't see Surya/Vijay or any of our stars getting a lyricst to talk about Alcohol abuse..
no star would want to get their hands dirty by speaking on 'uncool' issues.


And let's face it, Aamir probably wanted to do reality show channelling his 'otherness'. I'm not saying there's genuineness in him to do this, but it doesn't mean what he did is something as 'delikate' as it's made out to be. In fact, Aamir is known to build persona and stature precisely for stuff like this. He takes up on some specific issues, even his films like TZP, RDB, 3I, etc.. and straddles a cliche ridden route. But for taking this issue, he takes credit for 'social awareness'..

taking up social issues before a movie release is been done by all and sundry..even a press/media shy Prakash Jha can be accused of doing it.

[kid-glove]

But here's the narrative, it's 'uncool issues' that makes Brand AK 'cool'.

[P_R]

:rotfl3: @ saakkisraap

Maththapadi no comments. I find 'issues' based programs boring.

[equanimus]

"One, even what we know, discussing it on such a platform is something remarkable."

sollavE illa...Yes, caste is in many ways the elephant in the room that nobody talks about. So talking about it is remarkable. What's odd about this logic?
Aamir's crying is worse than Visu. Idhu mattum manipulative illaiya enna..Given it's a show that's edited and assembled together, I'd think it is 'manipulative' by design i.e. in a definitional sense. I don't have an opinion either way on his crying, etc.
But here's the narrative, it's 'uncool issues' that makes Brand AK 'cool'.Brand AK-vai vidunga, enakku adhaip paththi kavalaiyE illai. I'm just saying the issues he dealt with (haven't even watched some of the other the episodes fully) is a far cry from what Visu's show generally does (just the general impression I have, please point to specific instances if I'm wrong).
I find 'issues' based programs boring.Same here but this one I sometimes find interesting. (I catch it on YouTube.)

In general, this show is discussed so much that I watch it (some of it) in any case. The same way I've watched Visu's show too in the past, but my reaction in the two cases have been very different. That was my only point.

[kid-glove]

I'm just saying the issues he dealt with (haven't even watched some of the other the episodes fully) is a far cry from what Visu's show generally does

Issues different, but design and all similarly manipulative and turn off for me. I've tried a lot, but I couldn't sit through it, like Visu's shows.

[equanimus]

Just stumbled upon this (http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?281646) btw: http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?281646 About what all gets censored in the show. I'm just beginning to read it, but I guess the gist of the issue S Anand points to is clear. idhu vERa panchayaththu, Aamir has to criticized for this.

[equanimus]

Fair enough, k-g. Incidentally the Outlook piece discusses about how the show is manipulative to the point of showing something that didn't actually happen! I don't understand what compelled them to do all that. Anyway, I'll wait and watch.

[P_R]

Just read that. Not at all surprised.

[app_engine]

Just read that. Not at all surprised.

plus 1

[Plum]

Ha ha not at all surprised, me too. My "bollywoodnAlE calculated self-promotion dhAnE" filter never goes wrong

[P_R]

But you know this is the same AmeerKhan who totally avoided the media in the 90s. Moral high ground based on the gossip based filmfare, stardust etc.

2001 lErndhu aNNan oru maadhiri darlingA form aayittAr.

[Plum]

Others use the media by sleeping with them. Aamer aNNan uses the media by kicking them around. You've to give it to him for his genius(marketing and self-promotion) in this regard

[kid-glove]

That's because he was an on-screen romantic sweetheart with inflated ego in 90's. SRK madhiri non-filmi background'la irundhu varala ithanikkum.

SRK came from a TV background and he's made no qualms of being a whore through all forms of media. I don't like him either, but you have to dig deep to see through AK's manufactured persona and image. His TV entry is a great success, so he has done well. But don't celebrate him like a Saint.

[Plum]

/dig - git Clove - idhu patthti sthyanjottu stance enna? Also, Golmaal Bachchan review there? Redefining humour in indhi cinema, ipdi EdhAvadhu? Apisek best comic actor evet mAdhiri Edhum sollalaiyA?

[kid-glove]

/dig I haven't been to Bachchan Porn site off-late, Flau. But knowing them, I'd believe they found many things to appreciate. Seeing how BPM chief in charge have elucidated his love for ApisEk's DNA in the past, wouldn't surprise me if they invoke Proust and 70's cinema in same breath.

[wizzy]

/dig I haven't been to Bachchan Porn site off-late, Flau. But knowing them, I'd believe they found many things to appreciate. Seeing how BPM chief in charge have elucidated his love for ApisEk's DNA in the past, wouldn't surprise me if they invoke Proust and 70's cinema in same breath.

//Chiyaan was once touted as the torch bearer of 70s cinema in the south by the chief still makes me :rotfl3: //



Just stumbled upon this btw: http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?281646 About what all gets censored in the show. I'm just beginning to read it, but I guess the gist of the issue S Anand points to is clear. idhu vERa panchayaththu, Aamir has to criticized for this.

wow..wonder why none of the news channels ran a story on this explosive material :neutral:

[AravindMano]

Visu enna paNNAr. yEdhO Lakshmi paNNAngannu sonna paravAla.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

WOW!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hollywood/news-interviews/Kamal-Haasans-next-co-star-is-a-7-year-old-girl/articleshow/14891693.cms


Kamal Haasan’s next co-star is a 7-year old girl
Subhash K Jha | Jul 14, 2012, 12.05PM IST
The indefatigable 57-year old Kamal Haasan's co-stars are getting younger by the week.

If his co-stars in his recent films have ranged within the age-group of 22-35, in his next project which would be his Hollywood debut in the English language produced by Barrie Osborne, Kamal Haasan's co-star is a 7-year old!

The hunt is on for a 7-year old American girl who will be cast opposite Kamal Haasan. But you can's apply for the job just because you're 7, female and Caucasian. The little girl would be in almost every frame with the actor. And she has to match his virtuosity.

Admits Kamalji, "It's not just about the girl looking cutely into the camera. She has to be able to act. That's the age at which I started acting, so I know exactly how it feels to be facing the camera when you're that age, so I'll be a very considerate co-star."

Kamal Haasan describes his Hollywood debut as a study of civilization masquerading as an adventure story. "There will be lots of activity on the surface and also below the line of visibility. It's actually an idea that I related to Barrie. He immediately liked it. I like the idea of working with a child."

Interestingly Kamal Haasan's heroine in his new film Vishwaroop is no spring chicken either. Pooja Kumar who plays the lead is 35.

Says Kamal Haasan, "It was meant to be a girl who looks mature and sensible, since she plays a nucleur scientist. Which is why I thought of casting Sonakshi Sinha and Chitrangada Singh. It isn't about age. It's about looking capable and in-charge."

[equanimus]

makkaLE, I'm not surprised either. As I said, Aamir has to be criticized for this. But what I find wrong here is the reflexive logic of slotting together all azhugAchchi shows as one and the same. Isn't this exactly the logic often used (reflexively or consciously) to brush aside uncomfortable topics? That it's too sad (exaggeratedly sad!), serious and so on?

And in the same vein that logic that it's all fake because it involves a Bollywood star like Aamir Khan or something like that. Sure, Aamir's needs to be viewed critically (and the best comments I've read on the show are indeed critical of it on some grounds; as one piece on Kafila put it right after the first episode, "Dil Se Nahin Dimaag Se Dekho"), but that's not the same as being dismissive of it on flippant grounds.


Visu enna paNNAr. yEdhO Lakshmi paNNAngannu sonna paravAla.Great point. This is exactly what I'm talking about. If k-g had mentioned Lakshmi's show or Rose's show, there is a point to it.

[kid-glove]

Actually another point I wanted to make is how the same brigade who bash Lakshmi and even worse, uncomfortably snigger at Rose, seem to be taken into 'Aamir the Social changer'.

[kid-glove]

What's flippant here, seriously I find AK's shows being manipulative. His technique is quite visibly like Visu's than Lakshmi's. Of all, Rose hosts it best.

[kid-glove]

With a huge team of writers, both creative and research team, editors, and array of production staff, the issues are varied and makes it 'different'. I'll give him that.

[equanimus]

adheppadi same brigade-nRa conclusion-ukku vandhInga? I haven't seen anyone who sniggered at Rose's show and praise Aamir's. yArai manasula vechchittup pEsuRInga? Aamir's show-ngradhunAla adhukku general-A automatic popularity irukku-nRIngaLA? Which I agree with. And in any case, we shoudn't be waking up to theses issue just when/because a superstar is talking about them. That is also a totally fair point. But unga dismissal flimsy grounds-la irukkumbOdhu, it's hard to take you seriously either. (A stance like "personally I can't watch such shows" is different. )
But don't celebrate him like a Saint.Similarly, I understand this point. But to watch the show and engage with it is not to make him a saint. There are a lot of critical pieces which are more insightful than the show itself, but they engage with what the show sets out to achieve and point to its limitations.

[kid-glove]

adheppadi same brigade-nRa conclusion-ukku vandhInga?

Because I've been to lunch with such people, at work, home, functions and elsewhere.


I haven't seen anyone who sniggered at Rose's show and praise Aamir's.

I have.


yArai manasula vechchittup pEsuRInga?
Above


Aamir's show-ngradhunAla adhukku general-A automatic popularity irukku-nRIngaLA? Which I agree with. And in any case, we shoudn't be waking up to theses issue just when/because a superstar is talking about them. That is also a totally fair point.


But unga dismissal flimsy grounds-la irukkumbOdhu, it's hard to take you seriously either.

No one asked you to.


But to watch the show and engage with it is not to make him a saint.


There are a lot of critical pieces which are more insightful than the show itself, but they engage with what the show sets out to achieve and point to its limitations.
I've read those pieces before. I didn't want to post it here, because I'm not taken in to the show as I haven't seen it fully (have said as much here)

I'm referring to 'Aamir the star', because it's posted in 'Kamal the star's thread.

I had to post my issues with Aamir's mode, much like the way people are open to vent fury on Kamal here.

Doesn't seem problematic for me.

[equanimus]

What's flippant here, seriously I find AK's shows being manipulative.munnayE sonnA mAdhiri, that's fair enough, k-g. Even I've this uneasiness with TV shows dealing with issue for a set of reasons, one of which is how they manufacture reality (as oppose to a more modest way of just recalling it), e.g. veyilla vElai pAththAngannu solla, adhu mAdhiri summA shoot paNRadhu. You know, this whole idea of visually showing what had happened but there's invariably a whole sense of fakeness to it. And I just don't like it. And I mean to include all shows, informative or otherwise, even from the likes of Discovery channel and so on. indha amsam enakku indha show-layum pidikkala.


His technique is quite visibly like Visu's than Lakshmi's. Of all, Rose hosts it best.I'm not sure about this. Visu's shows are not about systemic issues, its victims and so on. Individual poverty paththi pEsaRadhOda sari. minjippOnA current cut paththi EdhAvadhu solvAru.

[kid-glove]

Again, you're referring to the issues, but I'm referring to the way one hosts. Aamir's is none so sophisticated or visibly 'intelligent' as it's made out to be. To host a show, is not to have tissues by your side.

And honestly I'm okay with Aamir's hypocrisy. He's after all a star. I know how some people who would bash that mode in Tamil, but like Plum said, English/Indhi BR-titis helps too.

As for discussing on the show, you have to take it up with regular watchers.

[Plum]

Flippant or not- manipulative, self-promoting and probably financiall beneficial to Khan, too,. I can applaud his marketing genius but git is essentially pre-empting hagiography - which is still going to come to this very thread soon inspite of pointed criticism pretty much exposing the intentions. IdhE threadla Kamal's unobtrusive karutthu solling integrated into screenplay has been questioned - afterall marketing effort-ai flippantA dismiss paNNA dhAn enna?

[kid-glove]

IdhE threadla Kamal's unobtrusive karutthu solling integrated into screenplay has been questioned

There's a much more sophisticated mind there, which I fail to sense in Aamir's mechanical choices, who hasn't solely written any of his films or shows (but hires people to do it). Eclectic selection and careful marketing should not be confused with creativity and intellect.

[Roshan]

Oh ippOthaan FB'la kumurittu varraen. I watched Aamir Khan's SJ for the first time with the episode that dealt 'Untouchability'. It was a COMPLETE let down. Idhavida kaevalamaa intha subject'a yaarum deal paNNathilla. And one guy says this is the first time since independence someone had come forward to discuss the issue to this extent. That was the final nail and I stopped watching at that point. The people who related their 'real life' stories did not help either. It looked doctored (I watched the dubbed Tamil version and the dubbing was just too horrible, so that could also be the reason). And thanks k_g for the outlook link. The article speaks my find. I felt exactly the same when watching it.

[kid-glove]

That was Equa who posted Outlook article, Roshan..

[Roshan]

From the outlook article : Gandhi wrote in Harijan in 1934: “I call scavenging as one of the most honourable occupations to which mankind is called. I don’t consider it an unclean occupation by any means. That you have to handle dirt is true. But that every mother is doing and has to do. But nobody says a mother’s occupation is unclean.” In another essay entitled ‘The Ideal Bhangi’ in 1936 he wrote, “My ideal Bhangi would know the quality of night-soil and urine. He would keep a close watch on these and give a timely warning to the individual concerned. Thus he will give a timely notice of the results of his examination of the excreta. That presupposes a scientific knowledge of the requirements of his profession.” It is this stranglehold of Gandhism that has kept manual scavenging alive

I have heard the same from a Dalit empowerment activist group in Andra Pradesh, about Gandhi's stand on Dalits. They were completely critical of Gandhi and said he made things worse for them.

[Roshan]

That was Equa who posted Outlook article, Roshan..

Oh sorry, Thanks Equa :)

[wizzy]

There's a much more sophisticated mind there, which I fail to sense in Aamir's mechanical choices, who hasn't solely written any of his films or shows (but hires people to do it). Eclectic selection and careful marketing should not be confused with creativity and intellect.

erunthutu pogatumae.. AK's lack of intellect/creativity shouldn't be held against the show..some 10+ NGOs do get monetary benefit so the show isn't only about azhukaachi/self-promotion.

on financial benefits.. AK surely would have raked in more moolah if he had starred in a Hirani movie instead of biding his time on a TV show.

[equanimus]

No one asked you to.
Doesn't seem problematic for me.Oh sure, but hey I'm just explaining why/what I found nonsensical in that specific comparison you made. :)

I pointed to/made specific criticisms on the show (or such TV shows in general) for discussion's sake. All you're saying in response is it's manipulative and/or a cry-out show. Of course I understand you've not seen the various episodes fully (nor have I for that matter). But surely you're aware that (and in fact, going by your latest post, this is precisely a problem you have with 'cool' folks who would bash/dismiss a similar show in Tamil!) this is exactly the logic used to simply brush aside shows discussing serious issues that makes the cozy family audience uneasy and so on? This is why I got worked up. What's so wrong with his crying that you keep pointing to that and just that? I happened to see that last show on untouchability and my feeling is it did discuss worthwhile things. You didn't have anything to say about the serious things it discussed but yet felt strongly enough to post a comment dismissing it. avvaLO dhAn matter. :)

Again, you're referring to the issues, but I'm referring to the way one hosts. Aamir's is none so sophisticated or visibly 'intelligent' as it's made out to be.This is fair enough. Yes, in this case, I'm interested in the issue discussed as caste is the elephant in the room. (Incidentally, Aamir claims some of these 'populist' turns are intentional. And I also doubt the fawning fanboys are singing hosannas for his intelligence/sophistication here, I think the praises heaped on him are more for the courage, heart to come forward to do this show and so on. I'm not one of them, but I'm just pointing that probably not many would argue with you on the 'sophistication' point!)
As for discussing on the show, you have to take it up with regular watchers.Point taken.

[kid-glove]

As I said, don't feel obliged to comment on the content(which btw I feel should be manipulated with such a massive crew..) as I haven't been compelled to watch it. My comments were more in tune about AK's MO in the show (that I have seen).. I seriously doubt Mr.AK has made any imaginative contributions or intellectual observations. I doubt his credentials. I find him a boring individual, personally. It was brought out of turn to the point that KH manufactures a 'false image', or his world view, or what. How ironic!

[kid-glove]

You didn't have anything to say about the serious things it discussed but yet felt strongly enough to post a comment dismissing it.

I didn't dismiss about serious things it discussed, but I dismiss AK fawnage or his involvement in the show w.r.t KH, the whole intention of that being brought out of turn here. Flau put it succinctly in his post. I snarled back at that.

[Plum]

Actually, how did we end up talking about Aamir Khan and his sosial consious?

[kid-glove]

Some Rahman fan posted it.

[kid-glove]

Oh it was our resident Music artist..


Satyamev Jayate : Untouchability - Dignity for All with subtitles

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7OUoXsryE3c

[equanimus]

There's a much more sophisticated mind there, which I fail to sense in Aamir's mechanical choices, who hasn't solely written any of his films or shows (but hires people to do it). Eclectic selection and careful marketing should not be confused with creativity and intellect.Okay, this and the below two posts has caught me unaware! Where/how did Kamal into the picture?! (I understand this thread is for his films, but you get what I mean.) I thought the link to the SJ episode on untouchability was posted only because it is relevant/related to the topic currently being discussed with respect to Kamal's films, not as a knock on Kamal. I'm still not sure, the post by Sunil_M88 just had the title and link to the video. :) Sunil_M88 himself may clarify if he meant to suggest more.

I didn't dismiss about serious things it discussed, but I dismiss AK fawnage or his involvement in the show w.r.t KH, the whole intention of that being brought out of turn here. Flau put it succinctly in his post. I snarled back at that.
It was brought out of turn to the point that KH manufactures a 'false image', or his world view, or what. How ironic!

[kid-glove]

I thought the link to the SJ episode on untouchability was posted only because it is relevant/related to the topic currently being discussed with respect to Kamal's films


Flippant or not- manipulative, self-promoting and probably financiall beneficial to Khan, too,. I can applaud his marketing genius but git is essentially pre-empting hagiography - which is still going to come to this very thread soon inspite of pointed criticism pretty much exposing the intentions. IdhE threadla Kamal's unobtrusive karutthu solling integrated into screenplay has been questioned - afterall marketing effort-ai flippantA dismiss paNNA dhAn enna?

5+ characters

[KlamRoyA]

http://behindwoods.com/tamil-movie-news-1/jul-12-02/kamal-haasan-kumki-14-07-12.html

Kamal Haasan to release Vikram's audio

The audio launch of Prabhu Solomon's latest movie Kumki is to happen on July 26th at Sathyam Cinemas. The chief guest would be none other than Kamal Haasan who would be releasing the audio. Remember, Kumki is the launchpad of Prabhu's son Vikram Prabhu. Kamal Haasan enjoys a very close relationship with Prabhu's family thanks to his closeness to the late thespian Sivaji Ganesan. Kamal must have deemed it fit to come and wish the youngster as he gets ready for a long innings in the industry.

Kumki is produced by Lingusamy and the music is scored by Imman who had a successful re-entry with Prabhu Solomon's previous hit Mynaa.

[equanimus]

k-g, Plum, enakku nijamAlE puriyala. Firstly, idhula Kamal enga vandhArunnu puriyala. Secondly, how can comments (whether they are criticisms or commendations) on a TV talk show by a film star be related to comments on the films (which are fiction, art) of another film star? yAru relate paNNa try paNNAlum, it doesn't make sense.

[kid-glove]

So why was it posted here?

[kid-glove]

Devar vs Dalit, indirectly hidden under General rural violence
Brahmin mis beliefs
General Hindu mis-beliefs, vagueness in hindu beliefs
Anti-Muslim acts,
Hindu vs Muslim
International Islam (VR, notreleased though)

Wow, Though Haaser has covered only minor number of issues and there are much more left, but still the impact :notworthy:

It was posted as response to either of the bolded ones in SKV's post, I suppose. :lol2:

[kid-glove]

Or maybe it was posted as a response to this post

I've stopped reading longer posts, so I perhaps had missed it.


Now it has much reduced social relevance. X 'lives' the same way as Y. The differentiators are vastly reduced (again for only a smaller section of the population than we are willing to acknowledge). It has little meaning beyond that.

Where the differentiators seem exclusively alive is in the domestic sphere - the language registers, the rituals, modes of worship, cuisine and so on. These do not rankle me. In fact there is - probably irresponsible - kururuppu in trying to keeping alive these. Particularly because they seem fairly innoccuous, there is no ill-treatment of fellow humans etc.

indha sadangu seyyuradhai nippAttaNum- 'nRa mAdhiri ellAm sollavE mAttEn.
I am becoming more and more of a sucker for rituals, surprising what's left of my former teenage self. That is for another day.
I am also vehemently opposed to the argument that 'religion ellAm veettula vachchukkunga' (Kamal's stand is kinda on these lines). Religious experience is very much social and out in the open.

thiruvizhA, kumbAbishEgam, oorvalam (of course, one has to be aware of the newfounded vinayagar oorvalam - which is intentionally political in nature), thEr - all of this I would certainly like to continue.

In Kandadevi, thEvars take exception to Dalits participating in the thEr izhuththal. Periodic vettukuththu, police protection etc. In such circumstances, people tend to say: "ippadi oru thEr thEvaiyA...*#%# religionum vENdAm oNNum vENdAm...veetula saami kumbittukkunga".

I couldn't disagree more with that approach. This is what life is. These moments of joy, the moments when one can try and momentarily aspire for something larger. And if we are not civilized enough and need police protection to conduct ourselves here, I don't think that is a waste at all.


One thing for sure that is not being implied (but is always alleged that this is implied) that one is trying to attest the hierarchy.
Do you think so?

S.Anand ellAm super comedy. idhu engappan moonji, en moonji mEla ottai vachuttu pOyittAn..asingam asingam range-ku guilt.
To the extent that he will feel at ease only if he decimates every bit of his identity. oru mAdhiri vambadiyA senjA mAdhiri irukkum.
Not even judging him for that - actually I am, just that I find his 'ippadi ellAm senjA dhaan enakku nimmadhi' kinda funny.



I said that to show the decoupling over time. I wanted to point out the class-caste overlap.


Affinity-nA...eppadiyA irundhaalum ivan namma paya - ivanai podhuvula vittu kudukka koodaadhu..appadi ellAmA? Quite rare I say. Nearly noone would think like that.

Of course the infamous FB comments after Paramakudi shootout, the Law College padichcha pasanga mOdhal etc. exceptions are there. But that is hardly typical, is it?

OTOH I should acknowledge a sense of, what do I say...enga veetulayum ippadi seyvAnga, same-pinch range-ku sillythanamAna bonding. But I consider that fairly innocuous.

[equanimus]

theriyalainga. I didn't even think about the relevance initially, to be honest. When I did realise what thread we're actually in (kudigAran range-kku irukku idhu), EdhO caste paththi pEsittu irundhOm, adhunAla post paNNirukkArnu nenachchEn. I'm generally all for digressions (to the extent the forum at large permits), never so much as recognize them until sometime later or someone else points it out. (I'm a fan of Kamal after all!)

[kid-glove]

Still I'm not sure what part of that episode engages with P_R's post and in what context?

[kid-glove]

Hereafter I will post random links in random threads. People will have to make up context.

[equanimus]

k-g, indha panjAyaththukku nAn varla. :) To me, it was as good as a new thread of conversation, that's the mindset in which I posted my comments/replies. maththappadi, "relevance to thread topic" paththi podhuvA enna karuththO/rules-O, adhukku nAn udanpaduREn. ippa note paNNa thavaRittEn, inimEl mAttEn. (I think the mods will as usual move our posts in any case to a new thread called "SMJ digs" or something, so no worries.)

[HonestRaj]

Hereafter I will post random links in random threads. People will have to make up context.

ingethan neenga first andha swf link post pannirukkanum...
appathan ungalukku oru geththa irukkum

[kid-glove]

For new thread of conversation:

http://z0r.de/L/z0r-de_2715.swf

[equanimus]

Or rather, I request them to (move these posts to a different thread), lest someone else visits this thread and find these posts distracting.

[app_engine]

Though the discussion on AK's social consciousness had been a little extended, I think it fits the context: Of the social consicousness of KH...

reNdu pErumE all-India-famous actors / directors and were considered "oscar-sending-worthy" :wink:

[NOV]

Sun movies @ 11pm

Mon - Guru
Tue - Vazhve Mayam
Wed - Gunaa
Thu - Kaaki Sattai
Fri - Nayagan

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Play list of Some 40+ Kamal Films. mostly Legal

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL39C1ED817368D539&feature=mh_lolz

[P_R]

Kamal to make DeivathirumagaL in Hollywood (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hollywood/news-interviews/Kamal-Haasans-next-co-star-is-a-7-year-old-girl/articleshow/14891693.cms)

[hamid]

Kamal to make DeivathirumagaL in Hollywood (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hollywood/news-interviews/Kamal-Haasans-next-co-star-is-a-7-year-old-girl/articleshow/14891693.cms)

PR,
een intha kolaveri? Sakala already post panna news mattumthaane irukku? kooda ethukku maane theene ellam? :evil:

[kid-glove]

Kamal to make DeivathirumagaL in Hollywood (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hollywood/news-interviews/Kamal-Haasans-next-co-star-is-a-7-year-old-girl/articleshow/14891693.cms)

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/sterling-puke.gif

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Kamal to make DeivathirumagaL in Hollywood (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hollywood/news-interviews/Kamal-Haasans-next-co-star-is-a-7-year-old-girl/articleshow/14891693.cms)

From that article

Kamal Haasan describes his Hollywood debut as a study of civilization masquerading as an adventure story. "There will be lots of activity on the surface and also below the line of visibility. It's actually an idea that I related to Barrie. He immediately liked it. I like the idea of working with a child."

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Moondram Ulaga Por Book Launch Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGfVDdtYlHA

[venkkiram]

Kamal to make DeivathirumagaL in Hollywood (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hollywood/news-interviews/Kamal-Haasans-next-co-star-is-a-7-year-old-girl/articleshow/14891693.cms)

இவங்களையும் பரிசீலினை செய்திருக்கிறாரா? கேள்விப்பட்டதேயில்ல! புதிய செய்திதான்.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lGmsHTdtPiM/S8Iha_OboKI/AAAAAAAAAR4/Kip7XbX7OR0/s1600/14799272_Chitrangada_Singh_3.jpg

[Sunil_M88]

Gosh, what palaver have I created here?

The link wasn’t a response to anyone and it was just in line with other posts on the page not really related to ulaga nayagan. I didn’t think it would ignite such discussion as usually my posts are brushed aside. My bad, I should’ve posted it in the documentaries thread.

I’m not a follower of the show and I too have my reservations about the show and just like k-g’s outlookindia link, I read this WRT the first episode http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/news/1438627/Rajasthan-Minister-blasts-at-Aamirs-Satyamev-Jayate

I rather watch the most ignored yet best film, Delhi 6 for hours on end as it covers majority of the social issues with MUCH more realism.
I actually heard the song at the end on a separate link and then found out the topic of the show, my mate had also requested me to watch.

Anyways, I’ll just stick to posts relating to music lol

[irir123]

http://www.mid-day.com/entertainment/2012/jul/150712-Quentin-Tarantino-inspired-by-Abhay.htm

American cinema’s most influential directors, Quentin Tarantino, director of movies like Pulp Fiction and Inglorious Basterds, has admitted in a conversation with one of our own directors, Anurag Kashyap, that a whole sequence in one of his films is inspired by Kamal Haasan starrer, Abhay !

[Saai]

http://www.mid-day.com/entertainment/2012/jul/150712-Quentin-Tarantino-inspired-by-Abhay.htm

American cinema’s most influential directors, Quentin Tarantino, director of movies like Pulp Fiction and Inglorious Basterds, has admitted in a conversation with one of our own directors, Anurag Kashyap, that a whole sequence in one of his films is inspired by Kamal Haasan starrer, Abhay !

Wow!!!

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Put that sickle, that way! Ippa vaangadaa, KarunthEL kaNNaayiram, mokkai magadhevan and anti-kamal elements

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

This is the whole article


Quentin Tarantino inspired by Abhay/Aalavandhaan
The Pulp Fiction director told Anurag Kashyap that he was inspired by an Indian movie with animated violence scenes

So far we’ve always thought of Indian cinema as being a derivative of its western counterparts.

So to hear that one of American cinema’s most influential directors, Quentin Tarantino, director of movies like Pulp Fiction and Inglorious Basterds, has admitted in a conversation with one of our own directors, Anurag Kashyap, that a whole sequence in one of his films is inspired by an Indian film, came as a huge and a welcome surprise.

Apparently Tarantino admitted in a private conversation with Anurag that the celebrated animation-action sequence in Kill Bill was inspired from 2001 Hindi-Tamil film, Kamal Haasan starrer, Abhay.


Quentin Tarantino

When contacted, Kashyap says, “Yes, Sight and Sound critic Naman Ramchandran first told me this. So when I met Quentin in Venice I asked him whether the Manga sequence in Kill Bill was inspired from an Indian film and he excitedly remarked, ‘Yes, I saw this Indian serial-killer film which showed violence as animated.’”

Kashyap explains, “There is only one Indian serial-killer film which was made before Kill Bill where violence was animated, and that was Abhay.” Kamal Haasan, who starred in Abhay, has his own take on the compliment. “When I did the animation action sequence 12 years ago it was seen as self-indulgent and odd by a lot of people. Now that it has been endorsed by a filmmaker of such brilliance, critics will be kinder to some of the things I attempt in my films.”

:clap: :notworthy: :thumbsup:

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

It cannot be denied that haasar has inspiried scenes in his movies, known or unknown. But he as a film maker has come up with so many countless original gems. So this news item kind of comes as a slap on face on those who deny and criticize kamal without agreeing his original contributions and blindly saying that he is a "sophisticatedly" inspired guy, who take lot of things from hollywood. Especially ppl like KarunthEL kannaayiram

[Sid_316]

:bow:Hail the king of kings! :notworthy:

[Arvind Srinivasan]

Wow!!! Great ya...:clap: :bow:

[kid-glove]

It's hardly an original idea though, is it? But from my own experience of films, it's the one to use it potently. Even the much acclaimed NBK that was rewritten from Tarantino's original draft had Stone and co. using animated sequences of 'superhero' cartoon and exaggerated violence. I know for a fact that QT dislikes and disowns NBK, and heard he hasn't sat through that film fully. And I'm pretty sure the animated bits weren't in his draft. I'd have no difficulty buying his own admittance of getting that idea from Alavandhaan/Abhay. Although this isn't really that influential, it's still heartening to know..

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

k-g, there is already an example haasar himself had said -> SippikkuL Muthu was the inpsiration for some hollywood film (forgot name) but now this one is a rare, unexpected, validated one. I remember our hub ppl saying this (abhay to KillBill) in this very forum. Its very heartening to know that now the director himself validated this. Namma ooru vayaadi critics vaayai mooda ithu romba helpful aa irukkum.

Also, though, this news item mostly may not be very helpful for Haasar's resume in hollywood, we will still talks like that, here :lol: again, only to those critics, poli-pandithargaL. Time to rise collar :D

[kid-glove]

Agree SKV, when KB was released, I remember saying this to my friends only to be ridiculed. Nice vindication.

[irir123]

leaving aside Tarantino's comment, Aalavanthaan did/does have its very original moments.

1. the macdonalds guy conversing with nandhu in his dream "mani enna aachhu ?" and the response "maniKKU enna aachhu" - cud mean anything - me-thinks: Nandhu's drug-induced state of mind = timelessness !

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZrp75KAuJc
watch from 1:46:17 onwards - at 1:46:29 Nandhu enters the bedroom of his childhood home and looks at the 'phantom cartoon' painting on the wall and immediately salutes it - its a very very brief gesture by nandhu but tells volumes of how is mind is all f*cked up and a part of cannot get out of its childhood memories! subtle and brilliant!

3. watch from 1:03:11 - at 1:04:09,
Nandhu getting the ecstasy/hallucinogen sniff and the snake tattoo on his shoulder muscle wriggles - my doctor friend in bangalore later told me that its a well-established fact in drug effects-related pharmacology: hallucinogens like LSD / ecstasy when taken as an injection, gives one the feeling of 'a snake wriggling' under the skin! so not only had Kamal did some background research, but used it in a very aesthetic way integrating it into the screenplay!

http://www.hanleycenter.org/programs/outpatient-services/drug-facts.htm

btw, music by SEL was just so-so! imagine what IR wud have done for this film - a separate theme for Vijay, Nandhu, their parents, the second wife of their father and Raveena and a main theme as well !

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

The Kill Bill Animation in discussion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URNEy3zT9kk&feature=player_embedded

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Equally important, another point to note is, all these days, Kamal Haasan was/is being watched silently by some Hollyowood/International bigwigs!

Movies like Aalavanthan which failed commercially, are getting re-deemed becos of things like this!

Is Malai-Eli Dhaanu noting these things?!

[irir123]

skv - perhaps you can email/PM me - what exactly happened between Kamal and Dhanu ?

tomorrow if and when kamal becomes not just noticed but recognized by hollywood fraternity, every kuppan, suppan will try to rub shoulders with him as well as take credit for his earlier movies successes!

[groucho070]

We have all discussed NBK's influence on Alavandhaan. But kid sonna mathirin, Alavandhaan has many standout scenes that sparkles with originality.

By the way, this thread is becoming labouring to read. But then its my prerogative to not to visit...

[tamizharasan]

This is what Kamal said about Forrest gump when he listed that FG as one of his favorite movies. I like the movie and acting of Hanks though I thought the movie was inspired by Sippikkul Muthu.

[Bala (Karthik)]

Sorry in advance for the digression :aanadhu aaipochu innum 5 nimisam:

@ and courtesy PR

http://twitter.com/i_r_squared/status/224695744106471424/photo/1

1578

EPIC EPIC :rotfl: :rotfl2:

[P_R]

:lol: kadaiseela vowel use paNNA police pudichirumA

[groucho070]

:lol:

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

சோள், சேற், பாண்ட்ட், பல்லவ் :lol:

[Bala (Karthik)]

:lol: kadaiseela vowel use paNNA police pudichirumA
:lol:
Actually i consider myself an expert in Yog and torture my wife at home using it everywhere possible (sAdh, appaL, panchgach etc) but this one almost knocked me off my chair. Ultimate (adhuvum the context - two indhikaars Q/A and one saying "absolutely correct"!!!)

[Anban]

Typical hindi kaara loosunga

[Cinemarasigan]

:lol: kadaiseela vowel use paNNA police pudichirumA

:lol:

[P_R]

sAdh, appaL, panchgach etc
:rotfl: :rotfl:
You are going to get me fired one of these days

[SoftSword]

:rotfl: :rotfl:
You are going to get me fired one of these days

++
sariyaa sonning...
wait... koyamutthur kaarangalun apdithaanung pesuraang...

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

http://tamil.oneindia.in/movies/heroes/2012/07/voice-kamal-hassan-become-record-157800.html

இப்படி கமல்ஹாசனின் குரலில் வெளியான பாடல்களின் எண்ணிக்கை 77 ஆகும். இந்தப் பாடல்களையெல்லாம் தொகுத்து ஒரு தனி இசைக் கோர்வையாக உருவாக்கும் முயற்சி ஒன்று தொடங்கியுள்ளதாம். அனைத்துப் பாடல்களையும் டிஜிட்டல் முறையில் மெருகூட்டி, புத்தும் புதுப் பொலிவுடன் வெளியிடப் போகிறார்களாம்.

Why? Already its nice and available, no?!

[sharav]

++
sariyaa sonning...
wait... koyamutthur kaarangalun apdithaanung pesuraang...
Yenunga... Adhu appadi ileenga..... Yezhudhum podu "nga" irukkum... Aana pesum podu "a" silent aayidum.
Ippadi pesina romba mariyaadhai tharra maadhiri fix aagi pochu...everybody started following it....

[SoftSword]

ayyo naan pesumbodhunu dhaanung sonnen...

[Plum]

Who/What is Yog?

[Bala (Karthik)]

Yoga = Yog
Other e.g. Drithraashtr, vashist, Kamsa = Kans (not to be confused with Chennai local "Gansu, enna gansu?")

PR
"Yoha" concept is yet to be anointed/hash tagged but maybe it's better that way

[P_R]

Who/What is Yog?
Yoga-vai Hindi-la Yog 'mbAinga.

Remember the World Cup final National Anthem Singing: Jan Gan Man :shock: :x

That is Yog

[P_R]

Kamsa = Kans (not to be confused with Chennai local "Gansu, enna gansu?") :lol:

e.g. Drithraashtr, vashist, Dron 'ntAingaLE pAkkalAm :lol2: in what is now Amar Chithr Kath

[Plum]

adhu sari - unga tuyitterla #yog is the tag for #making fun of indhikaaran truncated spellingA? apdinnu kEttEn

[Srimannarayanan]

Yoga = Yog
Other e.g. Drithraashtr, vashist, Kamsa = Kans (not to be confused with Chennai local "Gansu, enna gansu?")

PR
"Yoha" concept is yet to be anointed/hash tagged but maybe it's better that way

Bala

Yog thaan unga ilamaiyoda ragasiyma

[KlamRoyA]

//dig...

tamil to kindi...

vadai ----- vada
dosai ----- dosa

except those 2, others r same...

idli,pongal,etc., are same as in hindi too...

[app_engine]

//dig...

tamil to kindi...

vadai ----- vada
dosai ----- dosa


:lol:

neegaLE veetla ipdiththAna solluveenga?

Please tell your mother with proper pronunciation : "thAyE, thayavu seydhu iraNdE iraNdu vadaiiiyum, moonRu thOsaiiyum suttuththArungaL" (I'll guarantee at least a smile from her, if not a weird look)

[KlamRoyA]

// app..neenga sutha tamil' la solla soldringala .. ila topic only abt vadai/vada ... dosa/dosai.. ?

[KlamRoyA]

Kamal is going to attend as chief guest for audio releasing of 'kumki' on 26th july...

[KlamRoyA]

http://behindwoods.com/tamil-movie-news-1/jul-12-03/kamal-haasan-quentin-tarantini-16-07-12.html

Kamal Haasan inspires Tarantino

Kamal Haasan's talent and genius for innovation has never been in doubt. But when he made Aalavandhan in 2001, about a dangerous psychopath and his commando twin, the actor was criticized for using animation sequences to depict graphic violence. Now it has been revealed that director Quentin Tarantino who did Kill Bill, Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs and the recent Inglorious Basterds was inspired to use manga (Japanese animation) to depict particularly gruesome scenes in Kill Bill.

Tarantino revealed this to Anurag Kashyap. He said that the idea came to him from an Indian film that had used this method and no other film but Aalavandhan has used this technique. Kamal Haasan was flattered when told about this and said it was nice to hear that such a brilliant director had been inspired by him but added ruefully that he hopes the critics will be kinder to him when he experiments in his films.

[SoftSword]

app..
naama solradhu dhosa(au)... avanga solradhu dhosa(a)

[Saai]

sAdh, appaL, panchgach etc

:rotfl:

[irir123]

add to this list: 'maad paat' (anything that sounds folkish, is a 'cow' song!) a particular section of tamils who are city-bred!

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Actually we too do that to certain extent,

Andhra - Aanthiram
Kerala - KeraLam
England - ingilaanthu
Poland - polaanthu
Netherland - netharlaanthu

etc, though agree that nowadays, its kind of changing...

Technically, transliteration of Chicken shud be ச்சிக்கென் but we write Sikkan/சிக்கன்

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

There is something called கிரந்தம் and how to use F a letter not present in Tamil.

According to கிரந்தம், it shud be ரசினி/இரசினி, விசை, கமலகாசன்...

Recently, twitter was ரெண்டானது/துண்டானது wrt these 2 topics. There was no majority for both sides.

[KlamRoyA]

Actually we too do that to certain extent,

Andhra - Aanthiram
Kerala - KeraLam
England - ingilaanthu
Poland - polaanthu
Netherland - netharlaanthu

etc, though agree that nowadays, its kind of changing...

Technically, transliteration of Chicken shud be ச்சிக்கென் but we write Sikkan/சிக்கன்

apo English'ai, tamil'la 'Englishu' nu vaikkama 'Aangilam' nu ean vachchaanga.. :roll:

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Athellaam ellaa mozhiyilum irukku! They say tAmil instead of thamizh. We say thelungu instead of thelugu.

Ppl write சித்தாரா, ஷ்ருதி as Sitara, Shruti. It shud be Sithara, Shruthi right?!

Translation, Transliteration & Pronounciation are being different, in every language, for same terms/words

[app_engine]

While cross-lingual distortions happen all the time, the case of 'am' vikuthi is quite unique.

For one thing, the quantum of words affected is a huge number.

Next, it seems to be quite consistent between Thamizh & vada mozhi (i.e. Thamizh always has it while vada mozhi doesn't).

mukh - mukam (face)
man - manam (mind)
hridhay - irudhayam (heart)
udhay - udhayam (rise)

I don't know whether HC-Thamizh-fanatic-etymologists will agree, but my personal theory is all such words weren't Thamizh originals but got imported from vada mozhi. One of my former co-workers used to justify this with words such as prakAsh / prakAsam, telling that Thamizh cannot have any word starting with consonant...(now, let me run for cover)...

[venkkiram]

Yes App. Many words derived from Sanskrit into Tamil have extra word.

Arjun/Arjuna - Arjunan; tīrtha - Theertham; Karna - Karnan; athisaya - athisayam; artha - arththam; udyoga - uththiyokam, madhu - mathuram

[SoftSword]

..telling that Thamizh cannot have any word starting with consonant...(now, let me run for cover)...

by consonant u mean any thamil consonant(mei ezhutthus)? thats too much a stretch i would say...

[SoftSword]

seperate thread plis.

[app_engine]

by consonant u mean any thamil consonant(mei ezhutthus)? thats too much a stretch i would say...

Yes...for example, no word can begin with "க்" (the consonant 'ik') but a word can obviously begin with "க" (the uyir mey ezhuththu ka, which is the addition of ik+a).

Even among uyir-mey, there're restrictions, like word cannot begin with ra, Ra, la, La, zha etc. (That's why you see irAsA, Era.Murugan, iLakkuvaNan, irAman etc)

There's no such rule in English - sky, practical (any number of ejjAmples possible).

vadamozhi is similar to English in this regard (sthree, prabhu quick examples).

[app_engine]

seperate thread plis.

There's one already, in Misc section :
http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?8298-Funny-things-in-languages/page30

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/QQAAAL6N_EG4TSviVRH2jlCw82vmQOd_nQSXS2ouDDYctUPsy1 3hD5oddvmyGJsMrKePvFwLeyiNrhhjgUD69oVdGuav-k2x2OrWVsAdnRu_kguGAJtU9VCVhquq6sa1x1Hyss-0crYyu3QfkA.jpghttp://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/QQAAAL6N_EG4TSviVRH2jlCw82vwbwM-ca6rnJpRJSyMy58c4-mSfp2RNd1f3M6sGnn5UYhlJAboFw7GQUS1BfE1iN_gUEbIQ6Es DccPxp35k88jAJtU9VBrHVvbH5l7E_KJ0-uCpDOEc13v6w.jpg
http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/QQAAAL6N_EG4TSviVRH2jlCw82slZ1JJUxS4TQCYmjAyVnM634 xLlSo6xcbFj_97Z2xSjbybImUI6PF_UTLxG5JXt8ztjbk3Zm5z-IUEf08Q5ka6AJtU9VAHKUztUV4aLcE9xvh-uVJhgYpw_Q.jpg
http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/QQAAAL6N_EG4TSviVRH2jlCw82tT1vt1a64D_KVmk24_N7IBVq gnGcXItK0QQ4nM7Vi3Itb8O6_w3IALmRHLebj67s_5Odpik4i-SiM-gcazFIhaAJtU9VBQudrHzXjG8rG0tWnl6Loty0kuAA.jpg

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/QQAAAL6N_EG4TSviVRH2jlCw82u21AG-2i7RYE_IPIN6GiSobAQ5t-uwDayXTTknSgAKAdGc-OaYanCoinchG-7geFGH9Bzw_HBZZvstWJC3WbbPAJtU9VCJR_Y8ZU7IMj68Bk89 8iB9hMWD9Q.jpg