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smss_engineer
8th November 2006, 04:49 PM
Hi Guys!
Let us discuss the influence of IR in the whole indian film music

smss_engineer
8th November 2006, 04:56 PM
Let us take TFM History

During 1960's and 1970's there was a craze to copy ( or transfer?) Hindi tunes into Tamil songs and vice vera. There were numerous Hindi songs which were bring to TFM by Veda and some others.

In my opinion there was craze for Hindi songs in Tamilnadu before IR's entry . That craze died after IR's entry due to 2 reasons.

1) Quality of Hindi songs and movies declined in the late 70s and 80s
2) IR was delivering much much better quality than HFM.

1970's IR started to deliver quality songs that revolutionized TFM and his songs reached HFM also.

Raja’s music drew attention from the Hindi composers.
The one other area that Raja deliberately avoided was copying from Hindi tunes. When Raja came to the industry, there was a craze to copy Hindi tunes into Tamil songs. Raja was of the strong opinion that Tamil songs should have their separate natural identity or MAN VAASANAI. He felt there was much to be experimented in the Tamil songs. The Tamil language was already being adulterated with so much foreign words, and Raja had no control over that. But he was pretty confident that he could impose upon an area where he could dictate terms.
He did this in composing the songs, many times on pure carnatic Ragas. As Raja was churing out excellent songs year in and year out, the cine song fans had more and more of the Tamil tunes to taste, and the craze for Hindi tunes were completely driven into oblivion. By the first few years, Hindi tunes were chased beyond the borders of Tamilnaadu. The Hindi craze was completely substituted with Raja’s tunes.

smss_engineer
8th November 2006, 05:21 PM
IR introduced Sterotype recording in Tamil film Priya(1978) for the first time, My doubt is whether it was in TFM only or whole IFM?

Nakeeran
8th November 2006, 05:29 PM
IMHO, the contributions of Isainyani :

a. Folk music was made more popular & became a regular phenomenon for long
b. Revolutionised western music onto TFM . MSV was the pioneer and IR took it to the advanced stage
c. Changed the tfm to more instrumental ( earlier it was lyrics cum instrumental. The stress was more on lyrics IMHO )
d. Ludes - Extended preludes , interludes & post ludes
The ludes will be totally different from the main tune of the song but will jell seamlessly
e. The craze for hindi film music was penetrated to some extent
f. Folk with western was another innovation
g. BGM . IR deserved national award for many movies

smss_engineer
8th November 2006, 05:31 PM
I have a few questions to ask IR,

1. Has he ever heard his own compositions?

2. Does he find errors in his compositions?

3. How much has Malayalam composers had influence on IR' perception of music (for sure, I know the aboslutely stunning greats VDakshinamoorthy & MKArjunan has had the greatest impact on IR than anyone else, more than Mozart or Salil Choudhry or Bach, in the sense IR has found spontaneity in orchestration from Mozart, Chord progressions from Salilda, Counterpoint or dialog style repetitions from Bach, but for moods, melody and a timeless feel he has complete inspiration of those 2 I mentioned.)

smss_engineer
8th November 2006, 05:47 PM
IMHO, the contributions of Isainyani :

a. Folk music was made more popular & became a regular phenomenon for long
b. Revolutionised western music onto TFM . MSV was the pioneer and IR took it to the advanced stage
c. Changed the tfm to more instrumental ( earlier it was lyrics cum instrumental. The stress was more on lyrics IMHO )
d. Ludes - Extended preludes , interludes & post ludes
The ludes will be totally different from the main tune of the song but will jell seamlessly
e. The craze for hindi film music was penetrated to some extent
f. Folk with western was another innovation
g. BGM . IR deserved national award for many movies


Yes you are correct!
Till IR ie pre-IR periods we have seen MSV started to decline., and most percentage of people was listening HFM of RDB/SDB and they were also started to end.,

IR changed everything!

* Take Melody to Folk+western+carnatic/hindustanic.,
this was amazing, until IR, songs were of either fully carnatic or fully folk or fully dappanguthu. But IR changed this trend , he did whatever he could mix.

* Steroeo recording., Counterpoint (though MSV used on some occasions)., Meaningful Preludes/interludes. Many IFM MD's of pre-IR era (MSV,KVM,Salil,Nausahad,SDB,RDB,KA) used to give interludes by repeating the main tune in flute or violin or guitar!.,(though few exceptions)

* New singers (emerging) like SPB,Mano,MV,SJ,Shailaja,Chitra,Radika etc.

* BGM (a whole forum is required to describe!)

* Usage of normal intruments such as Indian/Tamil percussions,nathas,etc and western instruments such as
Guitar(Bass/Acoustic), Drums-rock, acoustic,snare etc, violin arrangements, trumpets, cello,Piano etc.

Nakeeran
8th November 2006, 05:49 PM
I heard that Ir used to check with his WM guru Dhanraj Master about his compos

smss_engineer
8th November 2006, 05:52 PM
Though he changed IFM from lyrics based to Instrumental based, He managed to keep the tune as it is!

Guitar usage of IR is excellent., Nobody else before used to the extent IR used!

Following songs are simply classic.,Nobody can reproduce

1. Ilalaya Nila Poligirathey
2. Valli - ennule Ennule
3. En Iniya Pon Nilave
4. Plucking Pattern in Viliyile Piranthathu -Buvana oru kelvikuri.
5. Plukcing Pattern of Poove semboove
6. Singalathu Chinna Kuyile- Punnagai Mannan
7. Madai Thrianthu- Nilalgal
8. Megam Kottatum - Enakkul Oruvan. and many more

kameshratnam
8th November 2006, 06:35 PM
He gave a new dimension to music.The rerecording was given a lot of importance. Studio discpline was enforced. Continous hits were given..this was possible in multiple languages

Dragun
9th November 2006, 01:02 AM
Was IR the first star composer in TFM? Before that the emphasis was mostly on singers and lyricists like Kannadhasan. Within compilation cassettes and CDs from the MSV era I mostly see TMS, PS, PBS collection, Kannadasan collections, even Sivaji and MGR collections. But I only have one MSV collection.

Sanjeevi
9th November 2006, 09:13 AM
I think MSV is dominated by actors (MGR, Shivaji), lyricist (Kannadasan), etv. But IR dominated all including actors, lyricist, etc.

smss_engineer
9th November 2006, 11:35 AM
I think MSV is dominated by actors (MGR, Shivaji), lyricist (Kannadasan), etv. But IR dominated all including actors, lyricist, etc.

Yes true! MSV was dominated by the actors MGR and sivaji and the kaviyarasu kannadasan but IR dominated almost all actors in 70's and 80's. and the time factor (really true)

The following actors were 100% dominated by IR and IR only!

1. Ramarajan
2. Rajkiran
3. Pandian
4. Sudhakar
5. Sivakumar
6. Mohan
7. Karthick (some extent)
8. Bhagyaraj

nilavupriyan
9th November 2006, 11:37 AM
and even kamal and rajni dint have the power to dominate IR while selecting tunes!

M.G.R and Shiaji had greater power...but IR is just diferent

smss_engineer
9th November 2006, 11:48 AM
The impact created by IR in his periods cannot be recreated.
But ARR chased that to some extent., but nowadays he clearly shows that he can't do that much.

8-) That is possible only if the MD's giving
Orchestration based songs and finding good singers like SPB or mano kind of singers

Sanjeevi
9th November 2006, 12:38 PM
The impact created by IR in his periods cannot be recreated.


yes including IR himself 8-)

Nakeeran
9th November 2006, 09:12 PM
I think MSV is dominated by actors (MGR, Shivaji), lyricist (Kannadasan), etv. But IR dominated all including actors, lyricist, etc.

Wonder how U pass such a judgement :shock:

Actually, I have been identifying some old songs of MSV & found that there are many many movies which he had composed for actors other than MGR & Shivaji

And all of them have been super hits .

How then U are saying that MSV was dominated by the 2 ?

The entire KB movies / many of Sridhar movies were all non MGR / Shivaji movies .

I think U havent heard many of his songs may be :roll:

Add Gemini Ganesan / Muthuraman / Jaishankar also 8-)