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rajasaranam
28th August 2006, 11:51 PM
Dont know whos idea it was. If it was Kamal's then no need to thank him since he is just like us, HCIRF. If its Gautham, big thanks to Gautham.
Ia a Radio Mirchi Interview some months back Gautham Said that his Favourite Composer was Raaja. And was telling some nostalgic memories about the movies of the eighties like Mounaraagam, Agni natchathiram etc., He said the immtly after cassettes realease he would buy and keep listening and get drenched into it and visualise/guess how the songs should/would be shot.
It shows his admiration towards IR. So its possible that it was either of them or both their ideas to incorporate this novel idea :)

irir123
29th August 2006, 12:27 AM
then why doesnt he sign IR for his movies ???

raja_fan
29th August 2006, 12:59 PM
"then why doesnt he sign IR for his movies ???"

business dhaan ! Even director saran claims as HCIRF, but he goes to that crap baradwaj for his films !

irir123
29th August 2006, 06:23 PM
"business dhaan ! Even director saran claims as HCIRF, but he goes to that crap baradwaj for his films !"

I dont buy this! look at our Bengalis or Maharashtrians, come what may, they promote their own people so blindly, even if that person does not have genuine talent (Sourav Ganguly and Amitabh Bachan are examples I can give here)!

though I dont want to be parochial, this kind of neglecting our own talent (and that too some talent like IR) is very much our singularly remarkable characteristic!

njv
29th August 2006, 09:50 PM
Dont know whos idea it was. If it was Kamal's then no need to thank him since he is just like us, HCIRF. If its Gautham, big thanks to Gautham.
Ia a Radio Mirchi Interview some months back Gautham Said that his Favourite Composer was Raaja. And was telling some nostalgic memories about the movies of the eighties like Mounaraagam, Agni natchathiram etc., He said the immtly after cassettes realease he would buy and keep listening and get drenched into it and visualise/guess how the songs should/would be shot.
It shows his admiration towards IR. So its possible that it was either of them or both their ideas to incorporate this novel idea :)

I really envy you! Here I am sitting in NJ and hardly get these interviews (Thanks to few sites like Indiaglitz we have some available). thanks for the info.

rajasaranam
29th August 2006, 10:57 PM
then why doesnt he sign IR for his movies ???

Whether we accept it or not the industry has lost faith in the commercial/Saleable aspect of IR :cry: Many of the upcoming directors want IR do thier films but the Producers and distributors force them to go for some one new or a current hit composer like YSR, HJ, BW, VS etc., These composers are ready to bend to any proportions in giving hit songs. they copy use loops and try incorporating some new sounds and all to make it sound catchy and rhythmic for the audience.
Incidentally the directors choose these MD's neglecting Raaja.
If you happen to read Cheran's Autobiography that came in Vikatan. he had said that he would go from producer to producer describing stories. And at one point when he was explaining a story to Sarathkumar " Sir neenga beachla irukeenga anga Radhiga madam varaanga.... neenga rendum perum sandhikum bodhu ungalukkulla solla mudiyatha oru unarvu varutha.....thayangi nikreenga meedhiyaellam Raaja sir BGMla paathupaar" :) That is kind of admiration Driectors have towards Raaja.
But incidentally when he wanted Raaja for his first movie 'barathi kannama' the producer said he cant afford to pay raaja and booked Deva :( And he had to go on with the industry standards
Iam not exagerating anything this is from his own biography.
Even director mysskin's first movie is by some one else now he have say and is going for Raaja for his next movie. Similarly Gautham may come up with a script someday when he will be compelled to the extent that only Raaja can do justice to that script and he will sure come to him. till then he will be a fan of raaja while using HJ commercially :P

Shankar
30th August 2006, 12:21 PM
RS,
You have a very valid point. However, in the case of Gowtham menon, he wud stick to HJ because he was instrumental in making HJ an MD.

rajasaranam
20th September 2006, 03:47 PM
Shankar,

Are you convinced now that Gautham will Infact work with Raaja One day :)
http://www.hindu.com/2006/09/19/stories/2006091917090200.htm

raja_fan
20th September 2006, 10:37 PM
Think about this !

1. It has been 30 long years since the music director entered the field.

2. It has been 14 long years since he was apparently challenged for the first time by a young 26yrs old new chap.

3. It has been nearly 10 years since a new gang of music directors came to the field and began fighting for the throne.

After all these, one of the most hot young film director says he is eager to work with this music director.
Don't you think this is enough to speak about our Raja ?
He is just not still remembered, he is wanted !!
This itself will be a record in film history ! No one has achieved this before. We have to really see whether ARR can do this in the year 2022 ( 30 years after he entered the field )..

MADDY
21st September 2006, 03:09 AM
No one has achieved this before. We have to really see whether ARR can do this in the year 2022 ( 30 years after he entered the field )..

i dont think ARR will be a wanted MD in 2022 (i'm not expecting him to be one in 2010 even)...that's where i guess u r wrong......infact we,ARR fans wud not like to see ARR trying to better or equal IR's achievements......he should/will create a new path for greatness on his own.......ARR wouldnt like to emulate IR in anyway, i believe......

maybe u can expect somebody like a Yuvan or Harris jeyaraj to try to emulate IR......(i strictly mean "try" cos i'm sure they can never actually emulate IR in their lifetime)

raja_fan
21st September 2006, 11:04 AM
No, I am not talking about emulating anybody !
I am talking about being wanted and respected after so many years and odds !

Shankar
21st September 2006, 05:32 PM
RS,
I would love to see GM working with Raja for a rather serious movie involving human relations (i firmly believe this guy will beat the master of human relations - mani ratnam in his own game). An effort like pallavi-anupallavi/mouna ragam directed by GM scored by Raja would be interesting.

All said, I dont think he will work with Raja.

kiru
22nd September 2006, 03:46 AM
....ARR wouldnt like to emulate IR in anyway, i believe......


I am not so sure. Initially, ARR mentioned he follows or does world/pop music. He even has somebody 'arrange' the strings for his songs. He mentioned what is the point in using so many instruments when you cannot get the emotions right. Agreed. Then all of sudden, I see him conducting the Birmingham orchestra. So does ARR feel, world/pop music can only go so much ? Maybe, he thinks he has to do WCM because already call him, Mozart of Madras ?
ARR and IR dealt with their predecessors in totally different way. For IR, vis-a-vis MSV, it was very clear. He had to 'embrace and extend' the paradigm set forth by MSV (and the reason IR calls him a genius or guru). For ARR, vis-a-vis IR, it is 'change and oppose' . But this stance is what I feel is watering down and changing. The fact is in both these cases, however different the approach is, both IR and ARR have been able to successfully dethrone their predecessor from the commercial top spot.

Shankar
22nd September 2006, 01:20 PM
>>>>
Mozart of Madras
<<<<

Call him anything...but why Mozart or for that matter any WCM Gods like debussy, brahms or Palestrina ?!?!?! He has a long way to go when it comes to handling WClassical style compositions...I liked the arrangement of lagaan theme, but to my dismay I read it was arranged and conducted by Guitar Prasanna :-(

RR
22nd September 2006, 02:27 PM
(Reposting Jaiganesh's post from TiS thread)


Maddy wrote:

The fact is in both these cases, however different the approach is, both IR and ARR have been able to successfully dethrone their predecessor from the commercial top spot.

Commercial hotspot is a silly thing. If one "manmatharasa" can dethrone any number of quality songs in a count down, thats how comm.hotspot works for you. I firmly believe lovers of IR's music or ARR's music never bothered about the commercial hotspot. Both were original and path breaking in their ways. IR used folk as the differentiator in his early days while Rahman used POP. However IR became broad based later on and experimented with all forms of music. Now Rahman is doing the same. However what Rahman lacks is the kind of support from film directors to give him chance to deal with a variety. Whereas IR was blessed in that aspect. He worked with K.Vishwanath in Telugu, who gave heavy Carnatic based subjects for IR. Rahman til date has to get a full carnatic project or full hindusthani project. However with Rahman's price tag any serious director with a traditional theme would walk straight to IR or to a carnatic genius like Lalgudi Jayaraman.
Inspite of this, Rahman is slowly throwing away the pop toys and is meddling into serious music. Listened to "Munbe Vaa" from SOK and was stunned to listen to IR style chorus singing "rangoli". Ultimately I would like ARR to go back to the "Spirit of Unity" of music days and comeout with an album like "How to Name it?", ofcourse with great recording technology, he can do it really well. Even if ARR's fans think that he has dethroned IR , that is not an achievment by any means. He has to take the musical trend set by IR (Unity in forms of music) to the next level. If it means that he has to collaborate with IR, so be it. If we carefully consider the evolution of film music in Thamizh, always the focus has been on innovation without affecting the melody. Now we are at a crossroads where innovation, new sounds, global sounds and technologies are drowning out our native voice and adding to the noise level, it seriously requires both these legends coming together to our rescue.

kamalsurya
22nd September 2006, 03:52 PM
then why doesnt he sign IR for his movies ???

Whether we accept it or not the industry has lost faith in the commercial/Saleable aspect of IR :cry: Many of the upcoming directors want IR do thier films but the Producers and distributors force them to go for some one new or a current hit composer like YSR, HJ, BW, VS etc., These composers are ready to bend to any proportions in giving hit songs. they copy use loops and try incorporating some new sounds and all to make it sound catchy and rhythmic for the audience.
Incidentally the directors choose these MD's neglecting Raaja.
If you happen to read Cheran's Autobiography that came in Vikatan. he had said that he would go from producer to producer describing stories. And at one point when he was explaining a story to Sarathkumar " Sir neenga beachla irukeenga anga Radhiga madam varaanga.... neenga rendum perum sandhikum bodhu ungalukkulla solla mudiyatha oru unarvu varutha.....thayangi nikreenga meedhiyaellam Raaja sir BGMla paathupaar" :) That is kind of admiration Driectors have towards Raaja.
But incidentally when he wanted Raaja for his first movie 'barathi kannama' the producer said he cant afford to pay raaja and booked Deva :( And he had to go on with the industry standards
Iam not exagerating anything this is from his own biography.
Even director mysskin's first movie is by some one else now he have say and is going for Raaja for his next movie. Similarly Gautham may come up with a script someday when he will be compelled to the extent that only Raaja can do justice to that script and he will sure come to him. till then he will be a fan of raaja while using HJ commercially :P

But till now Bala sticks only with IR :idea:

kameshratnam
22nd September 2006, 06:32 PM
IR does not need a gautham menon or maniratnam to prove himself. Annakili did not have any of the famous faces and IR arrived like a King..

raaja_rasigan
22nd September 2006, 07:07 PM
Still I feel that Raaja could give some new tunes in every film, whereas others are failing in this aspect.

In one interview, S J Surya like ilayaraaja & "en iniya pon nilavae" song, but still he is not using him.

Once in Interview, director Mahendran said, Mullum Malarum producer saw the film b4 re-recording & said to mahendran, "poochu.... en panamellam poochu..... ennaiyyaa padam idhu, vasaname illaame, oomai padamaatta irukku".
Also, earlier producer insisted not to make rajini as a hero as at that time he is a villain.
But mahendran thought that ilayaraaja will talk using his instruments. Also that is happened & film is a super dooper hit.

Thats Raaja. :thumbsup:

If u need ur good film to get a long standing, use ILaiyaraaja. One of the eg., Mudhal mariyaadhai. Or else leave it. 8-)

Vysar
22nd September 2006, 10:17 PM
Do we have anything new to talk about other than vintage stuff of IR? Gautham Menon and SJ Surya are smart cookies. They would rather use Harris or Deva because they know the trade and current taste of fans. Fans didn't listen to Thyagaraja Bhagavathar in 60s, and MSV in later 70s and 80s and IR in the 90s. Now AR Rahman facing his own now. Life goes on. If IR comes to reality and accepts that he has to do music for the people's satisfaction rather than his own no one other than Mishkin and Bala would hire him. Something changed in IR after 1993 where he was eclipsed fair and square by a young MD with a unique style. IRs ego still couldn't accept the defeat in turn he turned against his faithful fans. Whatever he talks about current music noisy is sour graping.

raja_fan
22nd September 2006, 11:44 PM
Mr.Vyasar,

"Life goes on. If IR comes to reality and accepts that he has to do music for the people's satisfaction rather than his own no one other than Mishkin and Bala would hire him"


It is enough for us( IR fans ) if he works with only a set of directors.
What do you mean by people's satisfaction ?
Are you blind to the fact that people are going in search of Raja's old eighties songs and recording them in CDs ( when songs just 3 months old are forgotten these days ) ?

Yes, life goes on ! but creations which came straight from the heart stay always ! Like the Taj Mahal and Madurai temple and IR's music. Thing of beauty is joy for ever !!

MusicIsLife
23rd September 2006, 01:27 AM
raja_fan:
Somebody might say Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder

anyways: we surely dont want to consider Vintage IR all the time, or old time glories, what is in effect is the belief that IR can still produce astounding music (ex Azhagi). So if GM and IR work together, there is always something special we can expect, it may not be a path breaker songs like IR-MR's movies.

It will be a typical IR mastery over the BGM that will in itself proove effective.

when people talk about boredom, i just try to ignore them or not agree to anybody, please dont compare any MD with IR again, he has done so many plethora of movies of the same subject, design and everything, now if IR says he does not have enough material and bored, I will agree, all others dont have a right to complain.

GM-IR will have a right combo, BGM will be surely effective (but will they work together, i doubt, probably Myskin might).

Vysar
23rd September 2006, 01:40 AM
Yes, life goes on ! but creations which came straight from the heart stay always ! Like the Taj Mahal and Madurai temple and IR's music. Thing of beauty is joy for ever !!

Your point is hypothetically true. There are people who still listen to Viswanathan&Ramamoorthy, early 70s MSV etc. So you fall under IR sect and IRs music is Taj Mahal. For me it falls under eye of the beholder category. Eventhough I grew up during IR time and feel his 80s music is great still I consider MSV -TKR is in par. IR should concentrate on his strengths TIS kind of projects, Devotional songs and BGM in what he is still good at. For his own experimentation sake he should not risk a directors career or fans money. Bala seems to be an exception on giving hits with IR not because of the music but his directing skills. Whenever IR was booked with high profile directors we expect the best and then an eventual let down during music release. If any one hire him it might be for BGM skills alone where he does some justice. His golden days are gone forever.

MusicIsLife
23rd September 2006, 01:41 AM
MADDY
I think what Raja_Fan was trying to tell is the only hope now who could do this feat in 2022 will be ARR. There are not that many people here who would survive the next 10 years leave alone 30 years.

I agree with you, ARR might not be wanted in 2010 in TFM owing to his price tag and his committments in Bollywood and Hollywood.

MADDY
23rd September 2006, 05:43 AM
MADDY
I think what Raja_Fan was trying to tell is the only hope now who could do this feat in 2022 will be ARR. There are not that many people here who would survive the next 10 years leave alone 30 years.

I agree with you, ARR might not be wanted in 2010 in TFM owing to his price tag and his committments in Bollywood and Hollywood.

yes maybe, but MIL, i feel the criteria for comparing these 2 totally-opposite ppl. should also be different.......

Shankar, the media is known for its hype.....Mozart of Madras is just a hyped up name for ARR......i know he was not called Mozart for his WCM or something but westerners felt he was a great musician from east and that;s it......so watever is gr8 for them in Music is Mozart......

kiru, agreed Birmingham was a fiasco for ARR, but i never saw ARR telling that pop is the last resort for genres in Music....he is a innovator and he likes to change his style always.....infact he is into north indian folk/vintage SDB style a lot nowadays which is again so different from IR's style......that's y i worship ARR........he has the ability to think differently from IR and succeed in that........

and reg the topic - Gautam really needs to work with IR......IR's BGM wud have lifted V V and K K to a different level.......maybe he can keep HJ for songs and IR for BGM......

Scale
23rd September 2006, 01:22 PM
>>>>
Mozart of Madras
<<<<

Call him anything...but why Mozart or for that matter any WCM Gods like debussy, brahms or Palestrina ?!?!?! He has a long way to go when it comes to handling WClassical style compositions...I liked the arrangement of lagaan theme, but to my dismay I read it was arranged and conducted by Guitar Prasanna :- (

Oh! The Jealous clown :poke: is back again. ithellam theva thaana ARR'kku-WCM degree vangunavarache!. Its String orchestra arranged/Conducted (http://www.guitarprasanna.com/Films/Rahman/) by Guitar Prasanna.. Ok, What was Ir's contribution in this ?MX-Theme Music (http://www.guitarprasanna.com/Films/Illayaraja/) <fulla pannadhe GP thaana>..

Have you heard Bombay Theme? :( Shud I list some more ARR' WC compositions KabiNaKabi - Bolo Kohn Ha, HHIPY, MWCTrue? The problem is he has to fusion for movie/ignorant listeners constraints

Hulkster
23rd September 2006, 01:31 PM
Well whatever the thing...i still feel that calling ARR mozart is too far fetched. Mozart's orchestration standards is way way high over ARR. But i guess its just a title to hail ARR by his fans and musiclovers rather than really calling him mozart.

Hulkster
23rd September 2006, 01:36 PM
As for Shankar's statement, composers just compose the notes,octaves scales etc and write out the parts to be played. Arranging or orchestration is already in the notes. The actual music is played by the technicians.

kiru
23rd September 2006, 02:37 PM
Maddy,
I dont know whether Birmingham was a fiasco. I am talking about the 'focus' / 'direction'. ARR did characterize his own music as world/pop,. This is a pretty accurate statement (afterall he knows what he is doing). World music is about presenting ethnic music in a westernised shell. Pioneer in this field is Peter Gabriel, whose studio promoted NFAK in the west. There are references to PG's music in ARR's music (anbe anbe kollodhE song) confirming ARR was studying/following this genre.
ARR's strength is his tune-making skills and taste for stylish rhythms/grooves. Tune-building is a linear arrangements of notes. WCM (or just the strings alone) is more about parallel arrangement of notes. This is the reason ARR does not want to bother with, and so subcontracts, I think.
I think the London marketing folks came up with the Mozart title, because ARR indeed a composer and Mozart is known for his melody/tune (unlike Bach who is known for his almost mathematically complex compositions).
BTW, composers write notes for the bass, treble. It is the arranger (done by the conductor) who assigns the parts to various instruments/groups of instruments.
For eg. when we say somebody arranged the strings for ARR. ARR would give the tune/melody for the strings, the arranger would split the parts to be played the violin, viola, cellos etc. He may have to come up with some extra notes to play harmony to the main melody.

Re: ARR and north indian folk etc. I think it will take me a lot of effort to explain how IR's music is different from ARR's but it is suffice to say IR has created some of the most creative body of music. It may not sound different from album to album like ARR's music, but IR has contributed a good set of original music techniques.

thamizhvaanan
23rd September 2006, 02:45 PM
Well whatever the thing...i still feel that calling ARR mozart is too far fetched. Mozart's orchestration standards is way way high over ARR. But i guess its just a title to hail ARR by his fans and musiclovers rather than really calling him mozart. I think the title mozart doesnt refer to the type of music that ARR creates, but rather the westerners see ARR as what mozart was to WCM.

thamizhvaanan
23rd September 2006, 02:56 PM
Tune-building is a linear arrangements of notes. WCM (or just the strings alone) is more about parallel arrangement of notes. This is the reason ARR does not want to bother with, and so subcontracts, I think.

a) It is totally unfair to say that ARR is uncomfortable with creating parallel melodies. He has done some truly complex compositions in his career, but may be not as consistently as IR.

b) WCM is not the end of the world. There is more to music than a multitude of instruments howling a tune at a go. IMO, We always look up at WCM but consider our carnatic music ( which stresses more upon solos ) to be inferior in creativity and complexity. It is a sad thing. In one of GP's interview, he has elaborated on how indian music is magnificient in its own rights.

c) To say IR was the last of creative composers. To me, IR became stale after a point of time. His usage of instruments became VERY repetitive, sometimes predictable. When I advocate IR to some of my friends they ask back "how can u ever listen to IR? its all the same old stuff, boring tablas and violins" I know that they are wrong, but they are not completely wrong either. While IR's recent music doesnt excites me as well as his previous gems, ARR continues to fascinate me with every album.

:D

Scale
23rd September 2006, 02:59 PM
[tscii:67701f0cba]far-fetched? Is that titled as : ARR- The Mozart <1000 thadava discuss panniyaachu> This title was sure b4 ALW/BD & ARR never selfstyled this publicity for overseas project. Sandhosama!

My point here is to provide the link of GP's website and not to underrate ARR knowledge of dif genres... Prove me wrong!

Why this type of inspection wasn’t carried someone deceitfully burried other credits for years?. pongappa

Thanks Kiru! TV :2thumbsup: Still Waste of Time
End Dign

Good Luck Gautam.
[/tscii:67701f0cba]

rajasaranam
23rd September 2006, 03:33 PM
Oh! The Jealous clown :poke: is back again. ithellam theva thaana ARR'kku-WCM degree vangunavarache!. Its String orchestra arranged/Conducted (http://www.guitarprasanna.com/Films/Rahman/) by Guitar Prasanna.. Ok, What was Ir's contribution in this ?MX-Theme Music (http://www.guitarprasanna.com/Films/Illayaraja/) <fulla pannadhe GP thaana>..


GP Credits Raaja among his Influences and lists him along with musical doyens like Thyagaraja swamingal, Bach, Beethoven etc., This should ring a bell somewhere to the pseudo mozarts :P
http://www.guitarprasanna.com/Learning/Influences/
And he hails a heap of Praise on Raaja to have meditated well on the mint street :)
http://www.raaja.com/guitarprasanna/
Should these clowns need anything more to. Well there should be some understanding between musicians and musical critics praising Raaja and laymen like Scale Praising ARR.
Search the whole internet now for a renowned musician acclaiming ARR's works. You will drtaw a Zero :wink:

kiru
24th September 2006, 04:49 AM
Tune-building is a linear arrangements of notes. WCM (or just the strings alone) is more about parallel arrangement of notes. This is the reason ARR does not want to bother with, and so subcontracts, I think.

a) It is totally unfair to say that ARR is uncomfortable with creating parallel melodies. He has done some truly complex compositions in his career, but may be not as consistently as IR.

b) WCM is not the end of the world. There is more to music than a multitude of instruments howling a tune at a go. IMO, We always look up at WCM but consider our carnatic music ( which stresses more upon solos ) to be inferior in creativity and complexity. It is a sad thing. In one of GP's interview, he has elaborated on how indian music is magnificient in its own rights.

c) To say IR was the last of creative composers. To me, IR became stale after a point of time. His usage of instruments became VERY repetitive, sometimes predictable. When I advocate IR to some of my friends they ask back "how can u ever listen to IR? its all the same old stuff, boring tablas and violins" I know that they are wrong, but they are not completely wrong either. While IR's recent music doesnt excites me as well as his previous gems, ARR continues to fascinate me with every album.

:D

Re: a - Fair enough. I agree Rahman has done some songs with very good chords/harmonies etc. I am just hypothesising why somebody like him would subcontract arranging the strings.

Re: b - Again I agree. I dont feel WCM is superior. But elements of it added to Indian music is totally enjoyable. (that is why I like the music of IR :-)). BTW, concepts of harmony/counterpoints are mentioned in silappathikaaram. Dont know why our people did not develop this further. Probably this gives a hint of our organized behavior or lack there of.

Re: c: I did not say this. My point is about originality. I had to say this because to set the record straight that even though IR has not shown the influence of wide variety of genres in his music. He has been very original and creative. And ofcourse, if ARR fascinates you should listen to him. I also listen to Rahman. I am now moving to computer based playback and made sure I ripped all of Rahman CDs first.

tmrrmt
24th September 2006, 10:12 AM
I have only 1 issue - between the 2, who has completely MASTERED the ART of FIDELITY TO CUSTOMISE MUSIC TO THE NEEDS OF A GIVEN MOVIE/SITUATIOn ? n WHO HAS PROVED TO BE ADEPT AT COMPOSING FOR DIFFERENT CHALLENGING SITUATIONS ?

if these questions are answered, then we would know who was more creative!

vijayr
24th September 2006, 10:22 AM
tmrrmt, you already seem to know the answer to that question, so why bother asking? :-)

vijayr
24th September 2006, 10:27 AM
ThamizhvaaNan,good points

tmrrmt
24th September 2006, 10:30 AM
vijayr - i want the answers to come from the concerned parties - only then will they be effective !!

kameshratnam
24th September 2006, 02:19 PM
I was shocked to hear Shiva. As a MD, IR should have said no and shd have insisted upon doing new numbers..i dont what had happened. Proably the great ones ( who according to me are the major cause his Peru getting repairu) beside him would have convinced him to do it..

Even the cheeni kum will have only old tunes.( if they see this and have new tunes..nothing like it !!)

Sony and other music companies are waiting...Manam irunthal margam unndu...

MADDY
24th September 2006, 03:05 PM
Should these clowns need anything more to. Well there should be some understanding between musicians and musical critics praising Raaja and laymen like Scale Praising ARR.
Search the whole internet now for a renowned musician acclaiming ARR's works. You will drtaw a Zero :wink:

that's totally unfair......i know nothing abt music but i very well know that ARR sounds too good to me and beyond that soul stirring.......and trust me there are around a lakh of people who feel the same....infact it is this belief in ARR , i carry forward whenever some really musically inclined ppl. criticise ARR.....i dont think GPrasanna or subbudu are greater than these lakh opinions.........

and RS, dont make fun of layman........without these laymen, even IR wuldnt have reached this level of popularity and fame......

Nakeeran
24th September 2006, 03:15 PM
Leave Rajasaranam aside Maddy

Thats a vented frustration of a typical arrogant hot headed Raja fan whose only God is Raja & will never respect other composers

We have seen more Rajasaranams doing saranam 24 hours for Raja only unmindful , RATHER IGNORANT of other great composers

The grouse these type of characters have over ARR is that HE CREATED A NEW TREND OF MUSIC & CHANGED THE COURSE OF TAMIL CINEMA MUSIC - WHICH ALSO IN THE PROCESS DETHRONED IR

nilavupriyan
24th September 2006, 03:35 PM
goutham menon - ir???

goutham menon has decided to work with mohan lal it seems...there is a possibility for him to join for the malayalam movie!

kameshratnam
24th September 2006, 04:25 PM
This is the basic problem of some ir fans..they want ir to work with popular directors.they dont understand that ir can be big without them..take the example of Bala..and the film Sethu..

Kadhir - Idhayam
Bharathiraja - 16 Vayithinile
MR - Pallavi Anupallavi- Pagal Nilavu
Bhagyaraj
Pandiarajan ) or bharathiraaja and his discples parambarai//


Rajasaranam is human..He too has his positives and negatives.. (I didnt like him dragging castes into one or some of his postings.+
Rajasaranam does like other MDs also. I too like a r rahman's music and even ir does as he has quoted in the interview.

A fan of ir who says he doesnt like other md's songs is not saying the truth or he or she is a beast.

Both of them cannot be compared..Again this is boiling down to a ir - arr battle which according to me is a waste of time.

Maddy always wud appear in ir forums and talk bad..thats his or the job of hard core arrfans..

I always wanted A R Rahman to sing "Thai manne vanakkam" but he would not do that

In every foreign show "chothi se asha' and "roja jane man" would be sang..and the original versions wud be left out..what a pity...

Nakeeran
24th September 2006, 04:32 PM
This is the basic problem of some ir fans..they want ir to work with popular directors.they dont understand that ir can be big without them..take the example of Bala..and the film Sethu..

Kadhir - Idhayam
Bharathiraja - 16 Vayithinile
MR - Pallavi Anupallavi- Pagal Nilavu
Bhagyaraj
Pandiarajan ) or bharathiraaja and his discples parambarai//


Rajasaranam is human..He too has his positives and negatives.. (I didnt like him dragging castes into one or some of his postings.+
Rajasaranam does like other MDs also. I too like a r rahman's music and even ir does as he has quoted in the interview.

A fan of ir who says he doesnt like other md's songs is not saying the truth or he or she is a beast.

Both of them cannot be compared..Again this is boiling down to a ir - arr battle which according to me is a waste of time.

Maddy always wud appear in ir forums and talk bad..thats his or the job of hard core arrfans..

I always wanted A R Rahman to sing "Thai manne vanakkam" but he would not do that

In every foreign show "chothi se asha' and "roja jane man" would be sang..and the original versions wud be left out..what a pity...

While I will vouch for majority of ur points here , I will not subscribe to what U had mentioned about Maddy

Maddy never talks ill about IR or his music . I havent seen him cursing IR . Rather its the other way - most of IR fans in this forum spit venom on ARR . WHY ? For Maddy, his dream composer is ARR & why not if he likes him & his music ?

The patriotic passion arose after ARR's - Thai manne vanakkam or Maa tuje Salam - speaks volumes about ARR's capabilities.

And ARR doesnt need characters like Rajasaranam to certify his credentials

Above all, the title says it all about the attitude - WILL GOUTAM MENON DO AN ALBUM WITH IR ??

IMO, today, it has to be the other way .

raja_fan
24th September 2006, 08:45 PM
"The patriotic passion arose after ARR's - Thai manne vanakkam or Maa tuje Salam - speaks volumes about ARR's capabilities. "

Hello..excuuse meeee..vittaa ARR dhaan naatukku sudhanthiram vaangi thandhaar-nu solluveenga polirukke..paavam Gandhi thaathaa ! Avarai marandhuraadheenga !

Renault
24th September 2006, 09:14 PM
MADDY somehow didn't talk abt IR alone.. he talked bad abt IR's family.. and I think I can take the credit of making him stop that for a while.

kiru
25th September 2006, 06:01 AM
This is the basic problem of some ir fans..they want ir to work with popular directors.they dont understand that ir can be big without them.....

My understanding is the music director gives a choice list of tunes and the director chooses them. Directors like maniratnam, BR etc. have had consistently good songs in their movies, implying, they were able to select good/popular tunes. They also probably have a say in the choice of lyrics.
So, I guess, folks are hoping to get some hit songs with certain combination of directors/MDs.

MADDY
25th September 2006, 10:53 AM
Maddy always wud appear in ir forums and talk bad..thats his or the job of hard core arrfans..

pls dont analyse me......i dont like it and i dont take it lightly nowadays.....

MADDY
25th September 2006, 11:13 AM
MADDY somehow didn't talk abt IR alone.. he talked bad abt IR's family.. and I think I can take the credit of making him stop that for a while.

now come on, this is blind bashing of Maddy :D .....where did i speak bad abt IR??? raja_fan asked whether ARR will be a wanted MD by 2022 for which i replied, that's it.....

Shankar
25th September 2006, 12:33 PM
>>>>
Mozart of Madras
<<<<

Call him anything...but why Mozart or for that matter any WCM Gods like debussy, brahms or Palestrina ?!?!?! He has a long way to go when it comes to handling WClassical style compositions...I liked the arrangement of lagaan theme, but to my dismay I read it was arranged and conducted by Guitar Prasanna :- (

Oh! The Jealous clown :poke: is back again. ithellam theva thaana ARR'kku-WCM degree vangunavarache!. Its String orchestra arranged/Conducted (http://www.guitarprasanna.com/Films/Rahman/) by Guitar Prasanna.. Ok, What was Ir's contribution in this ?MX-Theme Music (http://www.guitarprasanna.com/Films/Illayaraja/) <fulla pannadhe GP thaana>..

Have you heard Bombay Theme? :( Shud I list some more ARR' WC compositions KabiNaKabi - Bolo Kohn Ha, HHIPY, MWCTrue? The problem is he has to fusion for movie/ignorant listeners constraints


Thanks for the welcome note, Scale...Udambukku mudiyalai nu kELvi pattEn, paravAlliyA ippO ?

I have heard the bombay theme enuf times, and IMO, the only WC style compositions of arr are "putham pudhu bhoomi vendum", "lagaan theme", "rAsAthi en usiru" for its beautiful harmony..

...and what did prasanna do in MX ?? I gave a reference to Prasanna's contribution because, in WCM, conducting and arrangement is as important as the composition....Listen to beethoven's 5'th by Herbert Von Karajan (Berlin Symphony Orchestra) and the one by Gunter Wand..They have their own interpretation, and a conductor can change the mood of the composition by his interpretation. I don't believe Arr still has the ability to coordinate an orchestra (Do you remember his failed attempt in conducting an orchestra ??)....That was the only reason why I hate him being called Mozart....Its like calling Deva the modern day thyagaraja.

Chamchas like you would choose to believe he can be compared to Mozart, but that doesn't make it true...

jaiganes
25th September 2006, 04:02 PM
Flames again!!! its ARR vs IR all over in a thread that ARR fans have least interest and IR fans the least concern!!! Harris Jeyaraj is happily smiling while you guys have dragged on an innocuous topic into a major fist fight!!
Yaar angae, udane moderatorgalai varavazhaiyungal!!!

raaja_rasigan
26th September 2006, 10:09 PM
Enna idhu sandai....... avanga avangalukku pidithadhai avanga avanga ketkka vendiyadhudhaanu.......

Eppadi innum palaperukku MGR, Sivaji, Rajini, Kamal pidikkudho adhu maadhiridhaan IR'um.

Enakku IR'thaan pidikkum, simply because...... mostly due to his melodies, simple, uncomplicated lyrics & easy'a paadal varigal kaadhula vandhu vilum, kastapattu kekkavendiyadhu illai.

yethanaiyo examples irukku...... for a sample:

Nizhalkal - Idhu oru pon maalai pozhudhu.....

idha maadhiri situationum, tune'um adharkkaana varikalum idhuvarai vandhadhillai....... appadi oru simplicity both in song & picturisation. :thumbsup:

Indha song nalla illainu yaaravadhu solvaangalannu theriyalai

Shankar
27th September 2006, 01:03 PM
Well whatever the thing...i still feel that calling ARR mozart is too far fetched. Mozart's orchestration standards is way way high over ARR. But i guess its just a title to hail ARR by his fans and musiclovers rather than really calling him mozart. I think the title mozart doesnt refer to the type of music that ARR creates, but rather the westerners see ARR as what mozart was to WCM.

This is precisely what I am questioning....What Genre has he mastered ? People like Haydn/Mozart took WCM from one era to another (Baroque to Classical)....Arr has contributions on the techno front (fantastic recording, usage of off-the-shelf loops etc). How has he contributed to composing techniques ? -Raja, for instance had mastered blending Indian classical/folk with WC. I just want to know what arr has done on this front.

I think this titles like Mozart of Madras etc weren't given by any knowledgeable person....I guess, it's given by those chamchas who gave Raja the titles like "isai pithA", "ragadevan" etc...Its just that a sophisticated chamcha gave this title to arr...I see nothing more to it than this.

Hulkster
27th September 2006, 02:43 PM
Well im not sure whether this counts as genre but ARR is a master at blending sounds(can be instruments or anything) with traditional western/indian rhythms. Pudhiya mugam and now munbe vaa is a testimony to that. Well we all know he is not a mozart so thats agreed.

tmrrmt
27th September 2006, 11:12 PM
IMHO, all of this 'title-giving' is a typical Indian habit!

whatever it is, the quality of the output will speak for itself, over a period of time!

unlike science, a work of art is very very difficult to categorize using physical elements of description/definition - perceptions keep differing from 1 to another

for instance, I had not heard 'oru poovanathila' from 'Kazhugu', though I was familiar with the 2 other gems from this album - but 2 years ago, i stumbled across 'poovanthila' and i can easily identify myself with the inherent breezy melody that is so typical of many of IR's compositions! mind you, this is not even a trend-setting/ path-breaking composition with any heavy use of WCM or anything for that matter, but yet it captivates me!

as far as I am concerned, the use of WCM by IR in his filmy compositions was/is so subtle that it does not STAND OUT separately, from the whole feel/ambience of the composition that IR intends the listeners to get!

the best example that I can think of is 'oru naal' from 'Devadhai' -

(i) if the listener is a novice, he/she can get the 'feel' of 'virah/yearning', the flame of all-consuming passion that is so evident in the tune and orchestration of this song,

(ii) if the listener is knowledgeable in WCM, then perhaps he/she can understand the perfect/subtle use of baroque style elements and arrangements used in the song, to create the same effect (as explained in the previous point),

(iii)if the listener is knowledgeable in Indian classical music only, he/she can understand and appreciate the use of whatever melakarta ragam IR has used to CREATE/IMBIBE that effect!,

and

(iv) if the listener is knowledgeable in both ICM & WCM, the treat is added bonus + bliss!

given such context-driven customisation of music, IR has definitely taken creativity to all-time highs throughout his career, and the consistency with which he has been doing it, is what stuns and amazes some1 like me!

I was reading about "Linus Torvalds" and his life and wondered how long will it be, before IR gets his due for his contribution in the field of music!

tmrrmt
27th September 2006, 11:23 PM
and IMHO, IR's status can perhaps be best described by this memorable oneliner:

"NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED......."

kiru
28th September 2006, 12:28 AM
Well im not sure whether this counts as genre but ARR is a master at blending sounds(can be instruments or anything) with traditional western/indian rhythms. Pudhiya mugam and now munbe vaa is a testimony to that. Well we all know he is not a mozart so thats agreed.
You are right. ARR SHOULD be credited with creating a genre in India/with Indian popular music. It is a genre he created because the formula/elements of his musical style are followed by a wide variety of MDs like HJ, YSR, SEL etc.
I consider IR's music as the height of genre called 'Indian Film music'. ARR sounded the death knell for this and he started his own trend. The more this trend stands the test of time, the more will ARR gain credibility and recognition (more than what he has now).

Dragun
28th September 2006, 01:45 AM
Well im not sure whether this counts as genre but ARR is a master at blending sounds(can be instruments or anything) with traditional western/indian rhythms. Pudhiya mugam and now munbe vaa is a testimony to that. Well we all know he is not a mozart so thats agreed.

ARR opened up the sound of Indian film music. Besides using recognizable instruments like tabla, sitar, dholak, etc. he has used a lot of sounds that aren't recognizable to most ears. He also is concerned with how sounds can be manipulated musically to create interesting sounds and songs. So he approaches music not just from a compositional standpoint, but also from a sonic standpoint. He brought the kind of experimentation and approach to music into IFM that The Beatles, Peter Gabriel, etc. were doing in the West years before. ARR creates evocative soundscapes.

He also brought a more layered sound. Its not cluttered, but there are a lot of things going on in his songs such that if you removed one or two seemingly insignificant elements, the whole would be affected.

TMRRMT, I think this title-giving stuff is specifically a Tamil habit. You never see any "isai gnani/isai puyal" kind of stuff for music directors in Hindi film credits. I don't think they do this in Telugu/Malayalam either, as far as I know.

MusicIsLife
28th September 2006, 01:57 AM
, I think this title-giving stuff is specifically a Tamil habit. You never see any "isai gnani/isai puyal" kind of stuff for music directors in Hindi film credits. I don't think they do this in Telugu/Malayalam either, as far as I know.

Dragun:
Nobody has carried a film just by sheer music, but the habit is there.

Though there are some undeserving people who got some quick titles, IR and ARR stand apart.

But I like Parthiban in his innovative-ness and creativity, in his movies (directorial), He was the one to recognize "Music Alias IR" atleast for tfm it is true.

Let us get back to "Will GM work with IR": The following will motivate the relationship
1. Requires a nice BGM, i.e Music becomes part of the story
2. IR still wants to accept and work in a film
3. above all the producer wants it.

Hulkster
28th September 2006, 08:52 AM
Good posts dragun and Kiru...i was doing some research on ARR's style and i think there is a genre he has mastered. Electronica or the usage of keyboard in music whether film or non-film. ARR has mastered every trick and style of using the keyboard to contemplate Western/indian rhythms so we can say that he has mastered the electronica genre. A very famous composer and also very similar to ARR (in fact we can say ARR is the indian version of him) is vangelis. Vangelis chariots of fire theme has similar orchestration style to ARR's bombay theme.

Hulkster
28th September 2006, 08:55 AM
MIL thats three good points. Let me see what situations can warrant a IR-GM entry.

First IR would love to work with GM's style of scripts, there is scope for ample BGM and good songs provided GM's taste of songs. Secondly GM has declared himself a fan of IR which would be a added bonus.

Now as for producers, unless they are satya jothi film makers or that durai fella who came for IR's jayatv programme it might be a 50-50 chance for them calling upon IR.

balachidam
28th September 2012, 11:22 AM
Just bumped into this old thread.. A thread to look back. It has taken almost 6 years..But god it is worth it.
There are certain posts saying this combo is a non starter and some even question IRs calibre:-D

Credit to all who thought this would some day come true and how well has it tured out!!

aakarsh
28th September 2012, 08:48 PM
The question now is: Will he again? :)

balachidam
28th September 2012, 09:09 PM
The question now is: Will he again? :)

Would be great..Heard his next would be thuppariyum anand.with Surya

Its a long time we have had a stylish fast Hero oriented movie for IR..

A title song like Vikram...

app_engine
28th September 2012, 09:34 PM
The question now is: Will he again? :)

Gautam may need first of all to complete the NEPV, release it and see how it fares at BO. (Music is already declared a success but there're also expectations increased and any ordinary picturizations could affect the success of the movie).

Consider the scenario of a not-so-great-BO-run of NEPV. The chances of Gautam working with IR again is almost gone! He may still not go back to HJ. ARR may be too busy to entertain Gautam. That may drive him to the next lot, GVP / YSR kinds ; but he may not like to work with them - after working with ARR/IR - and may try developing a new guy.

If the movie too has a great run in BO, the possibility of Gautam doing another project with IR is quite bright! For the same reasons told in the opposite BO scenario above (i.e. Gautam says no to HJ, ARR says no to Gautam and the new kids are too low for Gautam's standards).

SoftSword
29th September 2012, 12:06 AM
nice discussions there... reading for the first time :)
great insights by jai...

jaiganes
29th September 2012, 03:45 AM
nice discussions there... reading for the first time :)
great insights by jai...
yeah - some nice - but some not so nice discussions... I guess this thread can be closed as 'case closed' as F=m*a = hence proven..

rajasaranam
1st October 2012, 08:24 PM
7 varusham kazhichu yaaruyaa itha dig panni eduthathu :-)

rajasaranam
1st October 2012, 08:25 PM
Adutha Question 'Will Raaja Work with Rajini?'

app_engine
1st October 2012, 09:36 PM
7 varusham kazhichu yaaruyaa itha dig panni eduthathu :-)

OhO, neenga ippamum indhappakkamellAm varradhuNdO?

:-)

rajasaranam
1st October 2012, 09:49 PM
ellathaiyum pathukittuthaan irukken :-)

balachidam
2nd October 2012, 12:14 AM
7 varusham kazhichu yaaruyaa itha dig panni eduthathu :-)

nanthan mannichu vittrunga:)

SoftSword
2nd October 2012, 03:19 AM
yeah - some nice - but some not so nice discussions... I guess this thread can be closed as 'case closed' as F=m*a = hence proven..

thats okie...
atleast people were fighting with some substance back then...