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vimalpercy
21st September 2005, 10:18 PM
IR is great when comes to Film Music. But no man in the world has achieved 100% efficiency.So let us analyse the postives and negatives of IR (his music alone, not his character or personal Life)

I list some of the points which apeal to me.

Postives:
1. Long Lasting Melody.
2. Soothing and Simple Melody
3. Perfection
4. Great Chord Structure
5. Great Fusion with western and eastern music.
6. Lot of variations (Disco, Rock and Roll, carnatic, folk etc)
7. Great BGM
8. Oringinality and Creativity.

Negatives:
1. Too many melodies are with Tabla Based Rhythms and so lesser variations
2. Not too much inventive in terms of trying different things though had talent to do that.
3. Not willing to change according to the latest trend.

looking for more feedback.

ananth222
21st September 2005, 11:14 PM
Negatives:
1. Too many melodies are with Tabla Based Rhythms and so lesser variations
2. Not too much inventive in terms of trying different things though had talent to do that.
3. Not willing to change according to the latest trend.

looking for more feedback.

I'm not saying that IR music has no negatives, but I do believe that the ones you have pointed out are quite far from the truth.

1. IR just has too many melodies. He has too many melodies based on tabla, too many based on drums, too many based on guitar, too many based on violin. Either way, I don't think thats a negative thing.

2. IR not too inventive?? What are you talking about? He has been the most inventive and experimental MD in Indian music. One negative point about him may be that he sometimes tries to experiment too much!

3. Not willing to change with times? IR brought about change in times. But he has never lost his integrity while changing. If "changing with times" means dishing out crappy rhythms that sound like bally sagoo remixes then I am GLAD that IR didn't change. But if you trace IRs music from 76 to today you will see that he has changed with time - without losing his signature. That is an achievement far greater than those who dance to the tunes of vogue.

Listen to the songs here:
http://www.raaja.com/guitarprasanna/favo_songs.html
and then tell me if there are too many based on tabla, if there is no experimentation, or if there is no change in style.

njv
22nd September 2005, 04:29 AM
I should say IR +vs are in MFM now and -ves are in TFM. Each album in MFM these days is a treat.

I bought the GURU movie because of IR and some malloos may hate me, but I didnt like the movie at all (it reminds me of Shaun of the Dead) but the music just mesmerizes me.

I think IR set the stage for TIS in Guru.

Now I am INTO 70s and 80s songs and everytime I listen to the songs, I feel like I am reborn. I just with IR does some 80s stuff again!

raja_fan
22nd September 2005, 06:54 PM
"3. Not willing to change according to the latest trend. "

Listen to IR's songs in duration of 5 years. like 75-80, 80 - 85, 85-90 up to 2000-2005.
Then relook your comment.

vimalpercy
22nd September 2005, 11:17 PM
1. Too many melodies are with Tabla Based Rhythms and so lesser variations

I dont say that he has not given too many variations and rhythms for infact he has given so many songs of distinct rhythms where from the rhythm itself we can find the song.
But my point is that, there were so many songs especially melodies which were tabla based and he could have done something about that which would have made those songs much better.when you hear some melodies one after the other you feel a sameness in the song.And some songs eg, poongatru puthiranathu from Mundram pirai, he start so beautifully and suddenly in stanza tabla will come and if you listen carefully it just destroy the initial flow of the song.Having given so many songs with distinct rhythms i feel with the amount of talent he posses he should have given more variations.

2. Inventive: My first point will cover up this point, where i prefered him to be little more inventive.

3. Not willing to change as for the trend: I would say this is one of the reason why he was overtaken by ARR. When Arr gave gentleman and Roja, if IR could give something similar to 3 or 4 songs then AR would have had a tough competitor.But IR didnt change himself and ultimately all big directors qued up to ARR.Kathalukku Mariadhai is one exceptional where he tried something different,but after that there is nothing which really made him come back to his old self.

These are my opinions only, and i liked the way members have commented about their views and so dont think me as anti IRR.We should discuss these points to know why IRR lost his way in the 1990s

ananth222
23rd September 2005, 12:22 AM
vimalpercy, I agree with point 1 - even I feel that lots of times IR sets up a very nice song only to blow it away with a mundane tabla rhythm or a "dappaangoothu". A classic example is here:
http://www.dhool.com/sotd2/477.html
Try to listen to the full song. It has so many beautiful passages that are mind boggling, and just when you are mesmerised by a captivating interlude, bang comes the tabla and dapaangoothu beats.

But then, the sheer number of good songs he has produced makes him unparalleled even if there are a lot of mundane songs.

I still don't agree with no. 2. I think that no one in Indian film music has experimented even half as much as IR. Give me one example of counterpoint in a tamil film song that matches "poo maalayeh". In fact, this song has a counterpoint structure in both music and lyrics
voice 1: "poo malayeh...... thol saeravaa...... poo maalayeh... "
voice 2: "..........yengum iru.......vaasam varum"
I don't think there is any other example for this type of experimentation in film music.

and as for no. 3, ARR also didn't "adapt to the times" to make gentleman and roja - he created that style. Give ARR credit for coming up with some amazing music. But IR does not have to emulate ARR. look at some IR films after 92: kalaignan, aathma, veera, avatharam, chiraichaalai, kaathalukku mariathai, devadai... all have great songs that are very different from his 70s or 80s work. IR does "evolve" his style to create new tunes, but he does not have to "change" according to parameters set by others.

vimalpercy
23rd September 2005, 12:28 AM
Some good points Ananth,
But as a musician he has set some goals or some path and dont like to move away from that path.
But in doing so he lost the compettive edge over ARR.and in doing so he lost some very good directors who could have used him to get most out of him or much much good stuff from him which we as a music listener lose badly.

So i guess as a musician he may won many points but as a professional he has lost some key points to ARR which eventually lead to his Downfall

njv
23rd September 2005, 12:29 AM
add virumandi, azhagi, friends, mumbai xpress, onok, aokk to the list. Infact after 92, all IR album except few are very good, but again the taste of audiance is different. So dont blame IR for that. Why should he do what others can do?

ananth222
23rd September 2005, 12:51 AM
So i guess as a musician he may won many points but as a professional he has lost some key points to ARR which eventually lead to his Downfall

depends on what you consider a "downfall".
I personally believe that IR is beyond film music. I don't think it is a priority for IR to change his style to have MDs queue up at his door - he has ruled film music for two decades, now let others have their time. ARR got there because of his talent, not because IR couldn't adapt.

IR does not have to prove a point to anybody. But what he does have to do, is not destroy the high standards he has set for himself. What will make others all around the world listen to IR is not his film music, but HTNI, NBW and TiS. That is the kind of music IR should work on now.