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krihoo
26th August 2005, 12:14 PM
First of all let me tell u i am mad about this album and liked it very much ....

but if i were to tell something that an IR Fan doensnt like to listen then it wud be this ..........

1) Tunes are as if tuned for films...Except for POLLA VINAYE AND UMBARKATKARSAYE....

2) West ppl might not know but we can here lots of IR film song bits mixed up ....

3) How to name it was more better fusion...Except for POLLA VINAYE AND UMBARKATKARSAYE....other songs are not that much fusion but more like IR melodies played by Budapest orchestra ...Even IR film songs like GURU, SIRACHAALAI etc got such TYPE of compostions ...

4) Vocal singers are seen singing without interest and respect....since they dont know IR except for the fact they see that he is dark and short....One person was sitting leg on leg and singing without interest....i wish IR buys all those symphonic instruments and develops a indian orchestra like that ...And as far as recording and other technical things are concerned i feel our AR Rahman wud have done better job what RICHARD KING has done .......

5) IR should have included also Instrumental(without vocal ) along with the songs...that is 12 track on whole .....so that we can hear both ....

what do u say guys about these negative things .....what else u found like this ...

friends....
talk friendly and open minded ...we are here to just get some awareness without getting emotional please.....

ananth222
26th August 2005, 02:53 PM
my personal opinion about the points:

1) Tunes are as if tuned for films...Except for POLLA VINAYE AND UMBARKATKARSAYE....

I would say the tunes have more public appeal than saying tunes are filmi. I think that was necessary to reach a large audience. Also, IRs "filmy" standard is quite high, it is thanks to IR that we pass as "filmy" songs of the calibre of Kaadhal oviam or poongathave which are majestic musical works. IR has really raised the standard of "filmy" music so easily that people don't even realize it.

2) West ppl might not know but we can here lots of IR film song bits mixed up ....

I don't really see what you mean by "song bits mixed up" I could see traces of IR's film music composing flavor but can't name specific tunes. Still I find this album a level above.

3) How to name it was more better fusion...Except for POLLA VINAYE AND UMBARKATKARSAYE....other songs are not that much fusion but more like IR melodies played by Budapest orchestra ...Even IR film songs like GURU, SIRACHAALAI etc got such TYPE of compostions ...

I agree that HTNI appears a more classical work. but again, what is fusion? does someone have to play a heavy 'modern rhythm' on the drum with a repetetive bass groove and one sitrar playing 2 notes per minute to be called fusion? This work is one of the best works of fusion because you cannot seperate what has been fused. Otherwise its a "mix" not fusion. It is just that we are so used to hearing songs fused like this from IR that we almost readily accept it as "indian" music.

4) Vocal singers are seen singing without interest and respect....since they dont know IR except for the fact they see that he is dark and short....One person was sitting leg on leg and singing without interest....i wish IR buys all those symphonic instruments and develops a indian orchestra like that ...And as far as recording and other technical things are concerned i feel our AR Rahman wud have done better job what RICHARD KING has done .......

i think you are refering to some photos seen online. i don't know when these photos were taken, and whether they were actually singing or just posing. I have no idea about the attitude of the performers, but as long as the music is fine everything is fine.
And I also agree that IR should have done this in India - raise the level of discipline and achievement in orchestras here rather than go to a foreign country. Maybe he will do that in the next project.

5) IR should have included also Instrumental(without vocal ) along with the songs...that is 12 track on whole .....so that we can hear both ....

I don't think he could have called the album "Thiruvasagam' if he did that. i am personally satisfied with whatever intstrumental interludes are already there in the album. i feel individual instrumental songs are out of the scope of this album - but I really wish that he would make another instrumental classic on the ranks of HTNI and NBW, or perhaps even surpass them.

These are my personal views.

krihoo
26th August 2005, 03:38 PM
point 1
IR is born for film music and western classical music ........
even before he entering films when ppl hear ir tunes they suggested him its sounding like filmi ....thats really true and which
makes him cannot justlify something of different type.....say for example if IR scores for advertisement it wud have filmi touch...if IR scores for non film - devotional songs , somewhere there wud be filmi touch ............Thiruvasakam is just devotional album with experiment but most of songs are like as if tuned for films...I BET AFTER LISTENING TO THIS ALBUM BIG DIRECTORS WUD HAVE FELT DEEP IN THEIR HEART ...HOW I WISH THIS SONG IS IN MY FILM ...........

point 2

well i cannot explain in mail....all .......maybe i can try to explain one bit......
the song is VENNILAVE from selvamani movie on suman and roja....(even rehman actor is in that movie)...that song'S pallavi small bit is there in POLLA VINAYE at the end

...like that i noticed few


point 3

In HTNI the fusion is great ....i mean both indian classical and western classical are so much glued together perfectly that we need two brains to keep track ....TIS also has great fusion but HTNI is complex ....


point 4

well , abt that vocal singers i saw in video that comes free in CD Pack.....looks like some just came for money ....had IR used our singers they wud have sung with devotion, respect and satisfaction


point 5

Ppl like me cannot understand tamil ...so instrumental if also included along with songs then we can more enjoy it as a symphony or like another HTNI

alias
2nd September 2005, 08:48 PM
One negative point about TIS is that it has made people superstitious and they claim it has some super works when they listen to it and I think that it is their Brammai. yes it defintely gives peace because of soothing music but there are many albums which falls in the same category. This is my opinion.

TISK
2nd September 2005, 10:18 PM
You apparently do not know about THIRUVASAGAM and Saint Manickavasagar, it appears.
He IS a living proof of a man who lived not long ago amongst us and the 'nariyaip pariyaakkiya thiruviLaiyaadal' [changing foxes into horses] has been well-documented and references are given for this and many such deeds by the author in several places in Thiruvasagam and other authenticated documents.
I recommend you to read the entire Thiruvasagam in prose once and then write in this column.
Faith is the key!
If it gives you peace of mind, then that's what you are looking for!
If someone with faith looks for something more/less and gets it, then that is also true.
BUT< DO NOT CALL IT SUPERSTITIOUS!
You are just missing the bus... that's all!
YIA!!

emjay
2nd September 2005, 10:22 PM
Of late, I am noticing that some people just have fun taking ill and negative of everything they see, hear and feel. If that is what they want to be, so be it.

Call it superstitious or stupidity, the emotions that St. Manickavaasagar's lyrics and IR's music invoked in me, ONLY I know what they MEANT TO ME. Hard to explain.

And finally, I think and I feel that people should be gifted to have that FEEL.

Thank God !!

arun
2nd September 2005, 11:13 PM
TISK, emjay:

Why do you guys have to take alias seriously? He is the one who called Annakili a fluke hit, condemned HTNI as a mere bunch of ring-tones and called IR a disgrace to the society.
He likes to be in the limelight and as long as you guys continue to take this numpty seriously he will continue to wallow in his success.

alias
3rd September 2005, 01:06 AM
TISK, Dont get me wrong about TIS. I have high regards for Manikavasagar and his poetry and I am sure it is a divine to listen to the composition. We are all blessed with the composition but when people say that because I listened to this music, this thing happened and I changed my lifestyle is what I dont believe in. God has send many holy books, prophet, Saints and Guru in this world and something they influence us a lot when we read about them and follow them. So my point is if I have to change it need not be because of music. If I read Holy Gita, Quran or Bible, I can change my lifestyle. Music is for peace of heart and not for changing anyone lifestyle or bringing miracles in ones life. MIRACLES DONT HAPPEN LISTENING TO MUSIC AND IT IS PURE MYTHOLOGY. This is my opinion.

And Arun, please stop your nonsense. I just felt that this album is making superstitious and I posted my view. Thats all. If you dont like it, I cannt do anything about it.

emjay
3rd September 2005, 01:22 AM
And Arun, please stop your nonsense. I just felt that this album is making superstitious and I posted my view. Thats all. If you dont like it, I cannt do anything about it.

alias, I AM telling that I changed my lifestyle after hearing TiS. Who are you to validate my feeling? Unsolicited advices are not welcome. And what you are doing in this forum is ABSOLUTE NON-SENSE.

alias
3rd September 2005, 01:37 AM
Hi Emjay, this is it. No one has given u rights for stopping people from posting in this forum. So stop your crap and mind your own hand. Whether you change your lifestyle or lead an idiotic life is none of my concern. I am trying to post the effect from TIS, thats all.

arun
3rd September 2005, 01:52 AM
Alias,

I am not alone as far as disliking your comments. I am sure the majority here do not appreciate your comments.

I notice a disturbing pattern in this forum. Things generally go smoothly and suddenly you popup with highly inflammatory comments which thoroughly derail the thread. You neither come up with constructive arguments nor do you support your arguments with sound logic. Can you please explain in musical terms how HTNI is akin to ringtones? Or how Thiruvasakam album promotes superstition?

Its now plainly obvious that you do not like IR's music and IR as a person. There is no problem with that. If you do not like IR you can safely ignore him.What compels you to come into an IR forum and pour vitriolic comments? If you gain some sadistic pleasure out of this I suggest you create a separate thread where you can bash IR to your heart's content. Or better go and visit a shrink asap.

alias
3rd September 2005, 02:13 AM
Arun, Go to Effect of Thiruvasagam in your life thread and see the posting to prove the Superstitious part.

I am sure some dont like my comments but there are others who will agree to my point. So dont make your post from the comments of Emjay or TISK.

And as far as HTNI is concerned, the instruments would have suited during that time, but now with the introduction of modern instruments, the instruments look out of place and they sound like ringtones. As far as the tunes and if they are put in songs, they would be excellent but since these are released as instrumentals, they sound like pokemon video game music and ringtones in this period.

And I am not an IR hater. I just put forward points which I dont like about him. Samething goes for other MDs. If I dont like their music or personality, I openly tell it. And arun, since this happen to be a public forum, I am sure there are post which will please you and displease you. So if you want something which u want always to be pleased, sorry you are in wrong forum.

arun
3rd September 2005, 02:31 AM
Alias,

Can you please explain the difference between the instruments used in HTNI and modern instruments? BTW what exactly do you mean by modern instruments? Video game music are generally based on computer generated midi music/synthesizer music. They are not new instruments by any means. Infact they are not even instruments. They merely try to imitate real musical instruments.

There is nothing like instruments suiting a particular time. If you have ever attend a concert you will realize that lots of European classical music is still played using period instruments( Musical instruments designed during the times of Viennese composers). So its not as if instruments suddenly become obsolete.

If you even have a little grounding in music you will realize that there are two basic things in music - Melody and Harmony. Melody is a linear sequence of notes. Most cellphones are not polyphonic and thats the reason most of the ring tones are based on melodies( linear sequence of notes - e.g Exposition phase in Mozart's 40th Symphony, Mouna Raagam Tune ). Its impossible to incorporate music rich in harmony into ringtones. IR's music in general and HTNI in particular is highly harmonic. So there is no way it can be compared to ringtones in musical terms.

alias
3rd September 2005, 02:50 AM
Arun, I am not saying instruments used in ringtones and HTNI are same. All I saying the music of HTNI sounds like modern day ringtones. Yes they are computer generated but HTNI sound like video games type of music. As I said the TUNES are no way an issue. So please dont lecture me on how ringtones are generated.

If IR could take the same tunes and place in modern composition as he did with TIS, the result would be good but not with what he did in HTNI in todays time.

arun
3rd September 2005, 03:00 AM
Alias, your ignorance continues to amaze me. What do you mean by modern composition? How can a harmonically rich HTNI played using real instruments sound like video game music. Just play HTNI to any person in the world and ask him if it sounds like a video game. If anyone in the world other than you says so I am prepared to take back my comments.

I do not how you can come up with such ludicrous arguments.
I have not met a more musically challenged person in my entire life.

multinamatheyan
3rd September 2005, 03:03 AM
HTNI sounds like ringtones?
Alias, where are you downloading your ringtones from? :-)

thumburu
3rd September 2005, 06:52 PM
alias is providing a nice comic relief!!! :lol:

Shankar
5th September 2005, 12:49 AM
Not sure why you guys keep responding to musically challenged people...Ignore them.

NormalMan
5th September 2005, 01:32 AM
So alias, Bach's Toccata and Fugue is also a ringtone eh? Going with the same anlogy God save Bach, Mozart, Beethoven ..... u just amaze and amuse everyone every...

Shankar
5th September 2005, 11:02 AM
NrmalMan,
Have you heard the beginning of kAdhal virus title song, that's natural instruments for you...others are all ringtones.

emjay
6th September 2005, 08:47 PM
Hi Emjay, this is it. No one has given u rights for stopping people from posting in this forum. So stop your crap and mind your own hand. Whether you change your lifestyle or lead an idiotic life is none of my concern. I am trying to post the effect from TIS, thats all.

It would be great if you mind your words. You have your comments to make on what you feel. But, you have no rights to throw shit on my feelings. If I feel TiS has changed my life, I post my feelings in this forum. You may agree or might disagree. If you disagree, you don't have to hurt one's feelings.

Have you ever seen me or my posts provoking or ridiculing your feelings? You don't have to agree with what we feel, but, you can avoid hurting others feelings.

alias
7th September 2005, 02:59 AM
Emjay, Look at your post from IsaiGnaani topic where you said

"If this is what his posts are, disgrace to him not to IR.". Is this not an insult or personal attack from you? So if you have opinion to share and I too have the same right? So please avoid personal attacks before you point fingures.

Guys, just because IR composed it does not mean, HTNI is not ringtones. For me it sounds ringtone and will be. I think we can say proudly that IR HTNI inspired people to develop ringtones :-)

arun
7th September 2005, 04:26 AM
Guys, just because IR composed it does not mean, HTNI is not ringtones. For me it sounds ringtone and will be. I think we can say proudly that IR HTNI inspired people to develop ringtones :-)

Alias, It may be the fact that you are too ahead of our times. Maybe if internet is still not obsolete in 300 years and if tfm still exists after 300 years people will come to this forum and exclaim - ha, here posted a genius!

Well until that time you have to contend with mere mortals like us struggling to understand your radical ideas.

alias
7th September 2005, 09:46 PM
Arun, Instead of sayiing I am ahead of times, why cant you say u r behind the times. I am sure IR fans will not accept it but there are others who will find this fact true :-) Until you understand lI will let u consider this as a radical idea.

MADDY
8th September 2005, 08:59 AM
hey alias mannn....i think we have no job here........u shuld come back to our forums.......see, 1 thing, IR fans never accept IR is wrong even in a small thing......it is unfair to xpect one.....

the way they use to condemn ppl. who find fault with IR like "musically challenged","ignorant continues to amaze me" is also of a bad taste....alias, A Ah is releasing,GF audio is releasing, Water and Rang de basanti r ready, come on lets discuss all these things, y r u wasting ur time on TIS???

NormalMan
8th September 2005, 09:04 AM
hey alias mannn....i think we have no job here........u shuld come back to our forums

alias, maddy --> please go back to the place where you belong to. Hell I don't want to be there !!

alias
8th September 2005, 08:18 PM
Thats an excellent point Maddy. I know when IR himself is arrogant, what can we expect from his fans (except few but even though they are polite they dont accept the facts). And Normalman, we dont want to you there in the first place. Stick with the past :lol:

ananth222
8th September 2005, 09:35 PM
Is there any way to permenantly ignore the posts of some users so that it is not even downloaded? It is a waste of bandwidth and screen space.

emjay
8th September 2005, 10:00 PM
ananth222,

I just totally agree with you. I wish we had that feature!!

MADDY
8th September 2005, 11:42 PM
yup that feature is required most in ARR's forums......IR fans like shankar,ezy0265,nattamai,RS(sometimes posts gud abt ARR and us),snajeevi and many others waste our time and bandwidth there so much.......if IR fans stop posting degratory abt ARR then i promise u that u wunt find ARR fans posting here.....

Sanjeevi
8th September 2005, 11:59 PM
title : Thiruvasagam negative points

Hey ARR fans what are you doing here.

Verum vaiku aval kidachuducha. :lol:

alias
9th September 2005, 12:41 AM
yes Maddy, I wish these guys should be banned when they utter any stupid words against ARR. Add couple of other IR fans too in the list. These guys are big pain in the back. Probably that feature should be implemented as soon as possible :lol:

And talking about bandwidth and space, do we need IR forum, I think it should be added to the memories of yesteryear list and that will save huge bandwidth and space. Then they can talk about their past... some golden (70,80) and others sad (from 90s) :lol:

Until these guys stop posting against ARR, this war will continue. Like it is happening in the current world, before they launch war in your home ground, you take the battle to their home :-)

Shankar
9th September 2005, 11:07 AM
maddy, you bet !! whenever you try to play the smart guy, I will be there to give it back...You may call me a fanatic, I don't give a damn...but I know my tastes, and I know how to admire Raja, msv and arr my own way.

app_engine
9th September 2005, 09:47 PM
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2005/09/09/stories/2005090901920100.htm

`spiritual healing center' to be started by ARR...

karthik_sa2
23rd September 2005, 01:03 AM
hey who is this alias.he is really funny."how to name it "ringtones think thats the joke of the century.its not that we IR fans dont agree the negative points of IR but ridiculous and absurd statements like this will defintely annoy any iR fan.but my request to IR fans: we all know about IR so lets ignore this guy alias and his posts.pls dont respond to his posts.lets not fight with a guy who is completely ignorant of music

RR
23rd September 2005, 08:49 AM
Hmm.. Should've closed much earlier. Go to 'TiS' criticisms thread if you have anything at all to say on 'negative points'..