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app_engine
30th July 2005, 02:13 AM
Raja's songs are so complex in orchestration - especially those from his early years, where he has used any instrument that he can think of or grab of:-) That included instruments not only from our villages but those from around the world...

This leaves the listener (and often orchestras) confused as to what is this instrument at some particular points of many songs...

DF'ers are encouraged to post such doubts in this thread...and the musically hi-tech (knowledgeable) DF'ers are requested to reply identifying the isaikkaruvi....

app_engine
30th July 2005, 02:22 AM
One of my 100's of doubts...

Song: `poovarasampoo poothAchchu' in KP rayil...

In the 3rd interlude (before the saraNam beings), there'll be this `karakara vaNdi kAmachchi vaNdi' stuff, followed by the violin sounds for `thalai-sutRal'. After that Janaki will laugh...

What is the instrument that is played between her laughter and the start of the saraNam...ennavO oru vengaLa pAththiraththil kal pOttu Attuvadhu pOndRa, AnAl inimaiyAna saththam...kodakodakodakodan...

Scale
31st July 2005, 01:29 PM
One of my 100's of doubts...

Song: `poovarasampoo poothAchchu' in KP rayil...

In the 3rd interlude (before the saraNam beings), there'll be this `karakara vaNdi kAmachchi vaNdi' stuff, ...

App_engine, sorry for the digression.

Its awesome :thumbsup: composition by IR. I recently heard this and got stunned! the kara kara vandi satham.

I dont know whether this have been discussed earlier too. This immediately took me for a ride with Chaiya Chaiya & the latest one in Parineeta (Train). :clap: Great train sequence songs at different periods. Few more are Inaindha Kaigal, Jeyam Ravi song & siraichalai bgm .... I would be thankful if anyone here list me more similar train sequence songs.

tvsankar
31st July 2005, 06:14 PM
Dear app,
that isai karuvi is Jaladharangam i think. :o
With Love,
Usha Sankar.

app_engine
1st August 2005, 09:38 AM
Thanks Usha Shankar...is it perhaps the same instrument that plays in the prelude of `kadalOran, kadalOram, alaigaL odi veLayAdum' from the film Anadha rAgam? ...You can hear a similar sound through out the song...even in interludes, just before KJY starts -`nelaththukku sondhakkAran pala pEru uNdu..'

rajasaranam
1st August 2005, 04:06 PM
scale,

Have you listened to 'manjal nilavukku' from mudhal iravu.Its backed with moving train sound all over the song.

tvsankar
1st August 2005, 06:35 PM
Dear app,
Yes. I noticed. One more song!!!
Oru kili urugudhu urimiayil pazhaghudhu
Starting lae fraction of flute bit ku next indha notes varum.
Actuala flute um jaladharangaum one after another race pannum.
Myna mYna nu mudium ovvoru timeum key borad udan milde a varum.Minute a gavanikanum.
Nilveilyil nu arambikum munn. indha para vai start panna, ending notes idhu varum.
Next para start agum munn ending notes (Ilaingalilum kilaigalilum)
varum. But this is little bit vary.
Enaku ippadi ezhudha theiryadhu.En husband sankar sat with me!!!! :lol:
Enga rendu perin feelings - Jaladharangakararuku notes theriya chance illai!!! Anal IR eppadi extract panni irupar?

IR oda guitar, flute.beat ellavatrukum naan MAD!!!! Indha song ai patri ella view layum pesalam.Avvalavu iurku.

With Love,
Usha Sankar.

tvsankar
1st August 2005, 06:44 PM
Dear app,
Film : Anandha kummi
With LOve,
Usha Sankar.

Shankar
1st August 2005, 07:18 PM
In the beginnig of the second stanza of "nee dhAnE endhan ponvasantham" what's the instrument played alogside acoustic guitar producing "wocawoca...wocawoca" kinda sound :-)

A better example...beginning of "senyorita I love you" from johnny has the same instrument...Isn't this electric guitar ?

Heard it in some old pop albums and to some extent in jimi hendrix as well

Shankar
1st August 2005, 07:21 PM
malai kOyil vAsalil, kArthigai dheepam" from veera...
At the end of every line there's one vague but interesting sound (comb'ai table in corner il vaithu thEithAl varum sound :-)) )...What instrument is that ?

ananth222
1st August 2005, 11:16 PM
In the beginnig of the second stanza of "nee dhAnE endhan ponvasantham" what's the instrument played alogside acoustic guitar producing "wocawoca...wocawoca" kinda sound :-)

A better example...beginning of "senyorita I love you" from johnny has the same instrument...Isn't this electric guitar ?

Heard it in some old pop albums and to some extent in jimi hendrix as well

That is a processed electric guitar. processing alters the sound of the guitar, and there are many popular processing techniques. IR uses "Wah", "Phaser" and "Flanger" a lot in his songs. The three are a bit similar to each other, and alter the tone and give a waxing/waning sort of sound to the guitar. This song u mentioned seems to use wah effect. Ilaya nila also uses phaser throughout the song. The ending gutiar in "chamber welcomes thiagaraaja" is also using flanger/phaser.

app_engine
2nd August 2005, 12:20 AM
ananth, That's very good info...Is the same tech. responsible for those (extended-guitarish) sounds in the first interlude of `madai thiRandhu pAyum nadhi alai nAn' from nizhalgaL?

ananth222
2nd August 2005, 02:52 AM
ananth, That's very good info...Is the same tech. responsible for those (extended-guitarish) sounds in the first interlude of `madai thiRandhu pAyum nadhi alai nAn' from nizhalgaL?

yes "madai thiranthu" is a very good example of the effects.
also "eeramaana rojaave" background chords use similar effect.
In lot of IR songs the background chords are played using flanger or phaser. IR also likes to couple this with arpeggio playing on the guitar (i.e. the chord is not strummed at once, but played note by note. for example "oh butterfly" song) Thus there is a melodious note-by-note arpeggio but the flanger also makes it sound full making it sound like strumming. You can notice this if you listen carefully to the backround in Ilaya Nila or Eeramaana rojaave.
Notice the difference in the way the chords are played in Ilaya nila for pallavi and charanam. Pallavi uses strumming, but charanam uses arpeggio. but both are flanged.

For technical info about guitar effects check this out:
http://users.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/fx-desc.htm

prabhudas
2nd August 2005, 06:12 AM
Hi Ananth,
Very interesting, in the link u mentioned it says "Flangers mix a varying delayed signal (usually about 5mS to 15mS) with the original to produce a series of notches in the frequency response.", does that mean the duration of these effects are short ( I mean milli seconds)? Amazing stuff... I wish they made Music lessons a mandatory to every human being who goes to school on the earth.
Oh my God....How much time I have wasted in this life, I feel sometimes I am unfit to listen to some of Maestro's music due to mere lack of Music knowledge, yet as IR says, his music has always taken me to a different level and I am ever thankful to him for that.
Thanks again

Prabhudas

baroque
2nd August 2005, 10:54 AM
Prabudas says ' Oh my God....How much time I have wasted in this life, I feel sometimes I am unfit to listen to some of Maestro's music due to mere lack of Music knowledge, yet as IR says, his music has always taken me to a different level and I am ever thankful to him for that.'

100% true, me too!! :( very sad about my pathetic music knowledge. I am blessed with Ilayraaja's music, indeed we are fortunate!!!

Shankar
2nd August 2005, 11:17 AM
thanks ananth for the info...

I've felt that's one instance where guitar has an advantage over the violin...With the violin you can only play the arpeggio and never a chord. Everytime we play the violin, we feel how wud it be to play the chords as one does with the guitar... :-(

(for the non-WC folks, arpeggios are individual notes of chords played one after another rather than simultaneously. They are the notes 1, 3, 5 1' played in succession..sa ga pa sa)

sureshmehcnit
2nd August 2005, 05:45 PM
hey some one clear by doubts on an instrument used in TIS here

http://ursmusically.blogspot.com/2005/08/some-doubts-on-thiruvasakam-illayaraja.html