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vimalpercy
20th July 2005, 09:16 PM
Hello Friends,
When you ask to compare Music Directors, what are the best criteria to compare them.
BGM or Song Composition??

I Guess the difficult thing a muscian have to do is to give life to film in the form of background music , as you can see from English film you will feel every scene lively becuase of the BGM which they give.They manage to show things which are not real , realistic becuase of BGM.

So we basically compare the 3 main musicians of Tamil Film Industry.
1. MSV
2. IR
3. AR

So if we compare the 3 of them, i guess IR stands out to be the best among the 3 in BGM,(in my opinion)

I would like to hear from friends what they think about this.

with regards
vimal

njv
20th July 2005, 09:42 PM
They all are great in their period. Dont start unncessary war here. We are all already wounded.

MADDY
20th July 2005, 11:00 PM
shalll i bring some medicine for ur wounds njv??? :D


hey vimal dude......IR is the best when it comes to BGM- everyone knows that so i dunt think there is any need for discussion here....... :D

Shankar
21st July 2005, 10:27 AM
I don't understand why one should compare people of different eras...Is it because these three are way beyond their peers in their generation ?
Raja entered when MSV was fading...and arr's entry was when Raja was focussed in the RPH work(But the fact that he scored the max no of movies per year (51!!) in the yr 92 is a different story) and most of his work were uninspired ...I'm sure guys like ysr would make it big when arr's focus is elsewhere...the transition somehow follows a similar pattern...But the only good thing is , the fading MDs in all these cases were not down and out when their successor came in. They still came out with surprises (MSV with ninaithAlE inikkum...Raja with a KM/avathAram and more...ARR bounced back with boyz.

njv
21st July 2005, 06:03 PM
shalll i bring some medicine for ur wounds njv??? :D


hey vimal dude......IR is the best when it comes to BGM- everyone knows that so i dunt think there is any need for discussion here....... :D
MADDY I really need this. We unecessarily fight between MSV and IR and ARR for no reason. End of the day, they are all great composers that India produced and we should be simply proud of them. I have learnt my lesson during TIS release. If ARR can come and praise IR, and if ARR fans can accept TIS, why not IR fans accept ARR. Thats my take. So I will NEVER EVER discussing anything about ARR-IR war.

BTW Shankar was right. they are composers from different eras, so dont compare them. In viveks' term, IR is the MD of 20th century and ARR is MD of 21st century.

Vkrish
21st July 2005, 08:50 PM
During TIS release, in one of the function IR & ARR have discussed for more than an hour....What wud be those discussions...any guess!!!

njv
21st July 2005, 09:45 PM
Vikatan says that IR listened to ARR's symphony work, but you never know. Someone close to IR/ARR can ask.

vimalpercy
21st July 2005, 11:15 PM
Hello Friends
I totally agree that the 3 i have mentioned are great in their time.

During MSV era there weren't so many technologies like today,
and When IR Started little better technologies were there than MSV but very inferior compare to what ARR used today.

there aren't any great MD's in india than arr when comes to using mordern technology and also to good effect , he made a revolution to tamil film industry in making tamil song played in overseas soils.I was in Kashmir when Roja film was released and that song was being heard by those people at that time in tamil.I felt really proud that day for he made others listen tamil songs.

Even with all technologies available to all musicians in India there aren't anybody who came even to 50% to ARR, which shows arr's talent in utilizing technlogy combining his creativity and imagination to make so many songs pleasant to so many ears.

If we want to talk about IR, then the first thing that comes to mind is non-tech musicals, for he prefers to have the natural instruments used rather than tech.In an interview in SUN TV when he was asked why he dont use tech, he said that original instruments are like Home made food but , tech are like hotel foods, (but i dont know how much ARR will agree on this).IR has composed more songs than the 3 in discussion and still producing timely master pieces which suggest he is not totally lost (ie his creativity)

MSV is from Different Era so we just leave him in this discussion, and we just concentrate more on IR and ARR.

The only disspointing aspect of IR (according to me) is that he used Tabla rhythm for so many songs, it would have been great if he had used some variations.IR has given so many songs with distinct rhythms for example
1. Aasaia kathula thoothivittu from johhnny
2. aasai athikam vachhu from marupadiym
3. nila athu vanathu mela from nayagan
4. masimasam alana ponnu from tharmadurai
5. netru oruthara oruthra parthom
6. Kattu kuyilu manasukkula from thalapathy
and many songs ( it would be nice if somebody can list more) and after having done so many songs, which when played the rhythms itself people will find out the song, i dont know why IR used so many song with tabla.One example is, poongatru puthiranathu from moondram piray, where the song start with such a distinct rhythm so nice, and suddenly in the stanzas rhythm changes to table which in some way spoils the feel of the song(this is my opinion only) and there are many such songs where you have the starting of the song goes great but stanza you have the same tabla based rhythm which is very common for most of the songs he has composed.arr is much different in this sense for he has given lot of thoughts to every song in giving a different rhythm pattern to each of his song.One of the example is Porkalam enge from tennali which is , if you play in keyboard the melody look like a church hymn but when you listen to that song in reality was so soothing and it is due to such a wonderful creative rhythm by Arr.

so i agree it is very difficult to compare these 2 great mds but i wish we will make an effort to find who is the best in digging deep more categories and analyse each of them in deep to get a good idea of these 2 musical giants of india.

with regards
vimal

Shankar
22nd July 2005, 10:42 AM
>>In an interview in SUN TV when he was asked why he dont use tech, he said that original instruments are like Home made food but , tech are like hotel foods<<

I don't agree with Raja on this...he says all this and comes out with songs full of synth...Tell me can't he use natural instruments for all songs from a fazil movie...IlankAthu veesudhe, Ayiram kodi sooriyan (karisakkAttu poove), roja poonthOttam, and ennai thAlAtta varuvALo wud've been some of his greatest compositions if he had used natural instruments...He didn't...why then does he talk about hotel food and all that nonsense.

tmrrmt
22nd July 2005, 10:57 AM
can anyone here explain as to what is natural and artificial ?
200 years ago, when there was no mike, no recording equipment, what was perceived as natural is different from the perception of today ?

even Tablas, drums and other percussion instruments use different kinds of animal skin for different quality of sound output - is that natural ?

the only natural music is music sans any instruments and the greatest instrument ever devised by nature in the VOICE!

tmrrmt
22nd July 2005, 10:57 AM
"nature in the VOICE" shud read as "nature is the voice"

Shankar
22nd July 2005, 02:09 PM
madhan,
Natural might not be the right term...I would call them 'real' instruments if that sounds better.

Do you refute my claim above...These songs don't sound half as good as it would've had he used real violins/drums/flutes...

alwarpet_andavan
22nd July 2005, 06:13 PM
Shankar,
I agree about the usage of natural instruments.
Particularly, the synth drums/percussions don't sound good in Raja's songs, compared to the acoustic drums or a "normal" sounding drum pad.....

However in MX all the songs sounded great even though he might have used synths (Poo poothadhu sounded like pure acoustic drum bliss).....But that's the exception, not the norm

Vkrish
22nd July 2005, 08:30 PM
1. Aasaia kathula thoothivittu from johhnny
2. aasai athikam vachhu from marupadiym
3. nila athu vanathu mela from nayagan
4. masimasam alana ponnu from tharmadurai
5. netru oruthara oruthra parthom
6. Kattu kuyilu manasukkula from thalapathy


All these songs are greatest hits...Instead we can say IR has exploited Tabla to the core, by bringing out beautiful variations...

vimalpercy
22nd July 2005, 11:15 PM
All these songs are greatest hits...Instead we can say IR has exploited Tabla to the core, by bringing out beautiful variations...

In your statement there is one word which i feel is missing in IR when it comes to useing Tabla ie variation.

If you take hindusthani based Tabla patterns or Hindi songs you would see the flow of the song enriched by using tabla, but IR mostly used i guess Carnatic based, i am not saying that carnatic based is not good, but i prefered IR use more of both Carnatic and hindusthani as variations and to provide variations to the songs.
In Germany where i am living now, i asked some of the Germans asking them to listen to IR's Song and they told that the music sound very good with good chord structure and perfect timining values, but one thing they told was, sameness, they feel that most of the song appeal same to them because of the rhythm which was given for those songs.But neverthless i was happy that some germans indeed agreed that his compositions were perfect without any mistakes.

So if we are to discuss about IR and ARR we should consider these factors

1. Melody ( lasting melody or just a temporary hipe)
2. BGM ( how lively the BGM given by those 2)
3. Variations in each song
4. Usage of inventive instruments
5. Rhythm patterns
6. how many audiences the song has reached or touched
7. Any new innovations.
8. Span of the MDS ie how long they are in the field successfully
9. How many songs they have managed to compose in that span.?
10 How fast they are able to compose and finish songs compositions?
11. How many assistants they had kept to aid them?
12. How the assistants influenced them in their success?

This is just a small list, and if we can analyse these 12 points first i guess we can get some insight into these 2 MDS

with regards
vimal

MADDY
22nd July 2005, 11:44 PM
vimal u r going to create unnecesary fight here......i think u shuld dicscuss abt IR and stop comparing him with ARR....see we've(ARR and IR fans)had peace after a long time with ARR attending TIS function and IRfans appreciating Mangal pandey music........so i think we shuld not compare these 2 as ppl who grew liking IR will never like ARR that much and pppl. who grew listening to ARR woont value IR's music that much....pls understand this.......

ARR stands out in all those 12 points...do u agree??? :D

vimalpercy
23rd July 2005, 12:19 AM
ARR stands out in all those 12 points...do u agree??? Never Agree

I dont like to create any fight mate, just i want to have a geneoune discussion about these 12 points and come up with some good points which may help better understanding of these 2 MDS.

alias
23rd July 2005, 01:27 AM
I defintely agree that IR is the master in BGM compared to ARR and MSV. His BGM are excellent but I think nowadays ARR has defintely improved from 2000. Look at Bhagat Singh, WOHEA, Lagaan, Swades... Man.. what a BGM.. I was really moved by a scene in swades with ARR BGM.. where a boy selling water at the platform and SRK is moved to tears and the scene where SRK trying to built the power and the generator get stuck and he goes there to help... Simply Wonderful....Dont watch in Thiruthu VCD.. watch it on screen to experience this effect :-)

vimalpercy
23rd July 2005, 02:06 AM
So i guess with few of the members comments
we can agree that IR is far superior when comes to BGM than others.

There aren.t any MDS even in whole india who is spoken for his BGM alone other than IR.

BGM for me is most difficult part or challenging part for any MD's for it requires lot of creative thinking and he must bring life to the scene with mere music.Songs on other hands are not that much difficult, the song situation and tempo of the song and events of the song are explained by director and md make the song based on that and based on that song director, direct the song sequences.So the song is developed by MD of his own imagination and creativity and so we can say , song depends on the md rather than other way.

But when comes to BGM it is really a question of not what the md put but what the sequence demand and so md should have more indepth knowledge inorder to give a music (which should have not appeared in other films,should not resemble any song sequence of other films) and which should give life to the scene and should make the audience appeal to that scene, so there is a great deal of talent required for this one.

IR has so many films which was spoken for the BGM and theme music alone
eg Mouna ragam
IDhayam, punnagai mannan etc
there are lot but just mentioning a few.

A true talented musician is the one who should be able to rely merely on his talent not on tech and others, and one who should able to bring things to life by music alone and who should be able to do this over a long period of time to stamp his imaginatory power.

So instead of we comparing whose song is best etc, just compare who is more talented as a muscian??????????

with regards

MADDY
23rd July 2005, 08:51 AM
vimal???? u just conclude without even listening to ppl.......who says BGM is the only indicator for a gud musician???? then according to u, Bryan adams,Kurt cobain,Pink Floyd who have never given BGM are not at all a musicians????? outrageous buddy.......

Music is such a vast entity that u cannot restrict it to a single aspect........moreover, ARR's BGMs r getting rave reviews now, with even hardcore-IR fan (RS aiyya :D ) starting a thread for Bose's themes............so dunt try to put down ARR in this aspect.....

i know u have come with a pre-determined notion of claiming IR is the best and u just wanted a discussion forum for a disguise.....if u cannot listen to others then pls stop discussing and just write IR is GR8 IR is GR8 just like our mums write "sri rama jayam" in notebooks......

vimalpercy
24th July 2005, 11:34 PM
vimal???? u just conclude without even listening to ppl.......who says BGM is the only indicator for a gud musician???? then according to u, Bryan adams,Kurt cobain,Pink Floyd who have never given BGM are not at all a musicians????? outrageous buddy.......

I never told that who dont put BGM are not muscians, you have mistaken there mate.
I just mentioned that BGM is tougher than composing a song.
DO you agree on that?

MADDY
24th July 2005, 11:45 PM
well BGM is a tougher thing to do but picture this:

there is a song by pink floyd where the situation is abt. feelings of a army person after losing his eye-sight,legs,hand and many other body parts in a war and who just has a little life in him.......how abt composing song for such a situation....it is tougher than giving BGM to a romantic scene???

now do u agree???

vimalpercy
25th July 2005, 12:00 AM
When picturising a song you always had the back up of Words(ie the words part of the song sung by the singer)

So when you make a song, the lyrics, the voice of the singer dominates the better part of the song and they or them gives the life to the tune composed by the MD.
In your case even a simple piano solo with powerful words sing by a singer can hold good ( i dont want to say that this is only solution).So i think Song has a back up but BGM dont have a back up.Films like Johnny , Idhayam are known purely for its live BGM, where the scenes look very very ordinary if not for the BGM.

We will limit our discussion within Tamil films for our core issue is tamil MDS.

with regards
vimal

Jacky
25th July 2005, 01:21 AM
[tscii:228d3c6084]The very topic of the thread is like asking validate the talent of an all-rounder by batting or bowling! Any good MD should excel in both.
IMHO, it's tougher to compose songs than BGM. MDs creative freedom in composing songs would be restricted by market demands which the director/producer considers most. Besides he has to make (not many MDs do these days) sure his tune is not repetitive. Not many would remember the BGM IR used when Sulakshana was doing Anga pradhakshanam in Sindu Bhairavi it was study for violin but if IR repeats his Padiriyen Padippariyen any passerby on the road can find it out. While a MD can repeat his BGM with minor variations and could still walk away with it.
[/tscii:228d3c6084]

alwarpet_andavan
25th July 2005, 01:54 PM
then according to u, Bryan adams,Kurt cobain,Pink Floyd who have never given BGM are not at all a musicians????? outrageous buddy.......


Pink Floyd played the score for "More" and "Zabriskie Point" (think they're BGM,s and not just OST's... not 100% sure though)

tmrrmt
26th July 2005, 10:31 AM
Guys listen to "Brothers in Arms" by Mark Knoffler (DIRE STRAITS) - it carries all the emotions of a man who is saddened by the uselessness of war and the universal brotherhood concept - apart from the lyrics, the mood of the tune and the instrumentation are just perfect!

tmrrmt
26th July 2005, 10:32 AM
"who is saddened by the uselessness of war and the universal brotherhood concept" should read as "who is saddened by the uselessness of war and talks about the universal brotherhood concept"

app_engine
26th July 2005, 06:21 PM
Madhan, you can edit your old post itself (with the new forum view):-)

vimalpercy
28th July 2005, 02:02 AM
As no comments were made regarding BGM and no oppositions came for that comment i shall now move to next way to define the talent of the musician

Normally if you consider a MD then you should see the variations they have given.
If IR is concerned then, you get all kinds of music delivered by him
1, Folk music
2. Western Classical Style Music
3. Gana Music
4. Disco
5. Rock and Roll
6. Techno
7. Soothing Melodies
8. Love and Romantic
9. Hindustani classical/folk
and many more and you name it.IR has provided these over a large period of time and lot of variations and lot of songs at that.

If you consider ARR, any ARR Fan i put it as a challenge to give the nos by themselves

with regards
vimal

Jacky
28th July 2005, 02:39 AM
You conveniently ignored Hindustani classical/folk in your list. :clap:
:rotfl:

vimalpercy
28th July 2005, 03:20 AM
Thanks mate for giving that info
i have added that also
:D

Scale
28th July 2005, 03:09 PM
http://www.behindwoods.com/features/Topten/legends/tamil-cinema-legend-1.html

Ilayaraja is no 1 legend of india :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

NJV! Congrats for your prediction...... IR-Fans enjoy..

Scale
28th July 2005, 03:11 PM
As no comments were made regarding BGM and no oppositions came for that comment i shall now move to next way to define the talent of the musician

Normally if you consider a MD then you should see the variations they have given.
If IR is concerned then, you get all kinds of music delivered by him
1, Folk music
2. Western Classical Style Music
3. Gana Music
4. Disco
5. Rock and Roll
6. Techno
7. Soothing Melodies
8. Love and Romantic
9. Hindustani classical/folk
and many more and you name it.IR has provided these over a large period of time and lot of variations and lot of songs at that.

If you consider ARR, any ARR Fan i put it as a challenge to give the nos by themselves

with regards
vimal

VIMAL! Here is my reply to yours,

24 genres of music ARR composed for,

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/arrahmanfans/message/52340

nilavupriyan
28th July 2005, 03:43 PM
ilayaraja's main plus is the usage of natural instruments like violin,guitar,veena,flute,tabla,piano etc

that makes u feel good whenever u hear that.
if electric instruments were used,it gets easily bored.i felt it many times.

especially ilayaraja use guitar and violin wonerfully.

guitar-"en iniya pon nilave"
"raja raja cholan naan"
"ilaya nila"

piano-"nee partha paarvai"

viloin -in all his films.
especially the violin music in starting of the songs
1)kadhal kavidhaikal padithidum neram
2)kalyana maalai kondadum penne

someone has said usage of natural instrument is his minus.but thats his great plus.

if arr use natural instruments in his films it would sound so good.but keyboard has become his trademark

vimalpercy
28th July 2005, 07:05 PM
if arr use natural instruments in his films it would sound so good.but keyboard has become his trademark

Interesting Comment,,
I doubt ARR would have succeeded to such level using instruments like Ilayaraja.

If you listen to Arr music he mixes so many things in his song to make it hear nice , eg even the song which singer sings, you can hear a soft less louder portion going in the background and so many echoes etc etc , and he is really good at doing that, and same apply to most of the western Songs where they do this to make the song hear better.But most of the people have told that it hears so nice when they listen but after a period of time it get so bored with that they dont listen to that.Same thing is happening with Arr song.
I am listening to IR since middle 80's and untill todate the songs still hears to me fine. But i used to listen to arr song so much when he came to the scene and even heard some songs 30 times keep rewinding but now i dont even like to listen to that song and it dont hear good to me and i g uess it is becuase of the synth he uses.

nilavupriyan
28th July 2005, 07:38 PM
if arr use natural instruments in his films it would sound so good.but keyboard has become his trademark

Interesting Comment,,
I doubt ARR would have succeeded to such level using instruments like Ilayaraja.

If you listen to Arr music he mixes so many things in his song to make it hear nice , eg even the song which singer sings, you can hear a soft less louder portion going in the background and so many echoes etc etc , and he is really good at doing that, and same apply to most of the western Songs where they do this to make the song hear better.But most of the people have told that it hears so nice when they listen but after a period of time it get so bored with that they dont listen to that.Same thing is happening with Arr song.
I am listening to IR since middle 80's and untill todate the songs still hears to me fine. But i used to listen to arr song so much when he came to the scene and even heard some songs 30 times keep rewinding but now i dont even like to listen to that song and it dont hear good to me and i g uess it is becuase of the synth he uses.
exactly

njv
29th July 2005, 12:22 AM
In an recent interview ARR mentioned that he is tired of using Synth sound. So hopefully he will prefer for aquostic sound more often in TFM.

20 years back when someone asked RDB to comment about IR, he mentioned that IR has taken TFM 20 years ahead of HFM. I dont know where we stand now, specially since ARR is also not focusing on TFM. Right now I feel like we are at deep sh it. Look at thiruppachi at no1 spot. Huh.

With TIS release, I hope IR will give us good melodies back again. ONOK is a good album, but heavy usage of synth sound. I am hoping he will go back to using natural instruments for good years to come.

vijayr
29th July 2005, 12:40 AM
I am still skeptical of IR's output in TFM. I am not sure if TIS's success would revive his interests in TFM, although I hope so. But one good thing is he has a few projects in MFM lined up. More hopes there. Chidambarathil oru appaswamy should have 1 good song and several average ones is my guess. Pokkisham might turn out to be a little better. He really needs to work with better directors in TFM and I dont see that happening since all the current young promising directors are set with their own favourite MDs like YSR, HJ etc. IR is simply unwilling to experiment in TFM these days.

njv
29th July 2005, 01:16 AM
IR-Bala
IR-Cheran
IR-Kamal
IR-Thankar Bachchan
If Bharathiraja take another movie, it would be with Ir only.

Only missing items are
IR-Manirathnam
IR-Shankar (Why not? I have this dream in my mind)

vijayr
29th July 2005, 01:34 AM
Bala makes 1 movie every 3 years. Kamal is the only one who can challenge IR to do something diff and he goes to IR only for Rajkamal films. Cheran's movies arent known for their songs. BR is down and out. will he make another movie?

Apart from manirathnam(who has reduced his films anyways) and Shankar, I am talking about other young promising directors on the horizon like Selvaraghavan, Gautam Menon, Ameer, Balaji Shaktivel etc. They are all set with other MDs.

njv
29th July 2005, 01:53 AM
Which means IR and ARR dont have any one to pair with. I am excluding Surya, cuz he is a crap.

Jacky
29th July 2005, 02:07 AM
IR will ghost compose for Ameer's ParuthiVeeran. YSR can do nothing to a Virumandi kinda movie.

vimalpercy
29th July 2005, 03:56 AM
I guess there are some valied points mentioned above,

in an interview in Sun TV, (after HEY RAM) IR mentioned that they are just like a pen and the directors are the one utilize them to get a better out put from them.

All big directors were queing up or are queing up with new mds like vidyasagar ysr karthick raja, HJ etc, it would be hard for IR to reproduce the magics he has shown in 80s and early 90s.I guess a good director can join had with IR then we can really see some good stuff from this living legend.

Shankar's Seperation from ARR also a bad blow for TFM for they were giving some good stuffs every movie and soon we have found the decrease in quality of the song in anniyan with HJ.
I guess IR and ARR are like Rajani and Kamal for TFM. Both should be there inorder to give life to this.we are seeing with Hindi films that they were not as good as used to be and seeing too much of techno and synth etc, not too good to listen really after listeniing to some excellent songs in the past. I guess if there are no good support from IR or ARR TFM also move to that level where we just see only Techno rhythms with mostly english words with some tamil intro then and there in TFM.

Sometimes i doubt weather IR Get so bored with after having composed so many songs??

Most of the Great Directors are on the losing course and most of the Famour Actors are on the losing course in terms of age and market and so really dont know how the future of TFM would be.
Can anyone imagine a TF with no kamal rajani IR ??????there will be tfm but how it will be?

MADDY
29th July 2005, 08:45 AM
heck mannn i'm not dead..... :D ..........vimalsir 3 nala ARRa akkuvera anivera blast pannittu irukkinga :D ..........

when it comes to no. of genres- ARR beats IR hands down......here r some of the genres that IR will not even try and where ARR has delivered:

1.Club house(girlfriend song)
2.Rock n roll (Kalluri salai-kadhal desam)
3.Qawali(Varaha nadhi karai-sangamam)
4.North Indian Bhajan(O palan hare-lagaan & Pal Pal -Swades)
5.western Opera(Putham pudhu boomi-thiruda thiruda)
6.Metal(kannum kannum-thiruda thiruda )
7.Trance-fanah
8.period folk i.e folk music 150 yrs back- Mangal pandey
9.chinese-Wohe & interlude in maya maya-baba
10.Hip Hop- dating-boys

has IR tried these genres????

MADDY
29th July 2005, 08:51 AM
and to the accusation that ARR's old songs go to recycle bin- i still listen to thiruda thiruda, roja,indira,bombay,karuthama & many other 90's albums during my offs.......same goes with all ARR fans......see u guys grew up listening to IR's osngs of the 80's so u still like it....i grew up listening to ARR's classics of the 90's so i wud not listen to IR or YSR but will only thnk ARR is everlasting.....

wake up guys.......opinions differ from generation to generation.....dunt generalise things....... :D

rajasaranam
29th July 2005, 11:57 AM
when it comes to no. of genres- ARR beats IR hands down......here r some of the genres that IR will not even try and where ARR has delivered:

1.Club house(girlfriend song)
2.Rock n roll (Kalluri salai-kadhal desam)
3.Qawali(Varaha nadhi karai-sangamam)
4.North Indian Bhajan(O palan hare-lagaan & Pal Pal -Swades)
5.western Opera(Putham pudhu boomi-thiruda thiruda)
6.Metal(kannum kannum-thiruda thiruda )
7.Trance-fanah
8.period folk i.e folk music 150 yrs back- Mangal pandey
9.chinese-Wohe & interlude in maya maya-baba
10.Hip Hop- dating-boys

has IR tried these genres????

Sorry MADDY , Vimal theriyama sollitaar. I apologize on behalf of all IR fans, Its ofcourse ARR who beats IR hands down on usage of variuos genres.
Its only one genre IR has ever used and it named after him - IR genre :)
It may contain all the genres which you have mentioned in parts here and there but it will have perfect Raja stamp all over and finally it becomes IR genre.

MADDY
29th July 2005, 12:04 PM
gr8 RS aiyya....gr8 to see u after a long time.......

u know in our hindu philosophy watever karma/actions u do gets accounted to Lord krishna only.....same way all genres in music belongs to ARR's control.......so ur so-called IR-genre also is a part of ARR :D .....

sarvam Rahmanarpanam asthu......... :lol:

alwarpet_andavan
29th July 2005, 12:19 PM
when it comes to no. of genres- ARR beats IR hands down......here r some of the genres that IR will not even try and where ARR has delivered:

1.Club house(girlfriend song)
2.Rock n roll (Kalluri salai-kadhal desam)
3.Qawali(Varaha nadhi karai-sangamam)
4.North Indian Bhajan(O palan hare-lagaan & Pal Pal -Swades)
5.western Opera(Putham pudhu boomi-thiruda thiruda)
6.Metal(kannum kannum-thiruda thiruda )
7.Trance-fanah
8.period folk i.e folk music 150 yrs back- Mangal pandey
9.chinese-Wohe & interlude in maya maya-baba
10.Hip Hop- dating-boys

has IR tried these genres????

Sorry MADDY , Vimal theriyama sollitaar. I apologize on behalf of all IR fans, Its ofcourse ARR who beats IR hands down on usage of variuos genres.
Its only one genre IR has ever used and it named after him - IR genre :)
It may contain all the genres which you have mentioned in parts here and there but it will have perfect Raja stamp all over and finally it becomes IR genre.
Maddy,
Neenga kettadhillenna adhu illai-nu aiduma?
Forget genres like Club house, trance and hip-hop (which EVERY MD in TFM is doing at present and there's nothing extraordinary about that), IR has done all the genres you've listed, and done it better at that!
BTW, "Kannum Kannum.." is not metal.... Metal won't fit into Indian FM...... At the heaviest, it can go till rock or a desi version of hard rock....

Have you listened to the opening of "Senorita" from Johny? In fact, the rhythm/bass guitar riffs, the acoustic drumming in many of IR's eighties songs retain a classic rock flavor. And to talk of the present times, have you listened to the prelude of "Nilavu paattu" from Kannukkul Nilavu? This, coming from an old man!!!

Have you listened to Hey Ram?? Nayagan? Or how about Preeti Uttam's bhajan "Suniyo" in Ilaiyaraaja Live In Italy? Or "Unnai naan ariven" from Guna? - N.Indian genre (all you've mentioned included)

Western opera???? Having some tenors sing in the opening doeth not maketh an opera, my friend....
IR has extensively used vocal harmony in MANY of his songs... and long before words like world music and fusion came into vogue he was doing just that... Fusion is not "Alaipayuthe" with drums and synth... IR retains the distinct flavors of Indian, WCM, classic rock and what not in his music.... in fact the fusion is so seemless, listeners don't even realize there's some western threads in the songs....
Here's an article by my friend "Bass" Vicky that i've put in my blog:
http://soonapaana.blogspot.com/2005/06/thamizh-and-western-music-new.html

MADDY
29th July 2005, 01:46 PM
reg johny song
wat to say alwarpet andavan - IR's recording quality has been so poor that i might not have heard these sounds.... :D ..........

kannum kannum is metal my dear.......wat else is it???

wat does nilavu paatu do???nuthin i turn off the radio when that song comes---does it belong to turn-off genre then???? :lol:


btw u have covered only half of ARR's genres and i have stopped with my limited knowledge...ARR is much more than wat i argue for.....dunt forget that.........

see this was a unneccessary thread where vimal wanted to praise IR by downing ARR for which i object.....even i like IR but not more than ARR.....so if u continue to praise IR without hurting ARR fans sentiments then u wont find me here :D ......

rajasaranam
29th July 2005, 01:47 PM
MADDY,

Thanks for accepting that among the many genres ARR uses he also uses IR-Genre :)
One such exmaple is 'Sandai Kozhi' from 'Aaythu Ezhuthu' .Thanks for reminding us Such classics from ARR.

alwarpet_andavan
29th July 2005, 02:18 PM
reg johny song
wat to say alwarpet andavan - IR's recording quality has been so poor that i might not have heard these sounds.... :D ..........

Product of the times...... even for the inferior recording quality, you can't miss the almost-Hendrix-style "wakapokawakapoka" guitaring in the prelude........



kannum kannum is metal my dear.......wat else is it???

Not metal...... the drums are a give away.. like i said at best, a desi version of rock.... have u listened to that rain song "Savan"(?) by Shubha Mudgal? Similar to that... not metal by any means....



wat does nilavu paatu do???nuthin i turn off the radio when that song comes---does it belong to turn-off genre then???? :lol:

How can you judge a song or talk about its genre if u turn the system off?
You're doing a better job than what you accuse Vimal of doing :)




so if u continue to praise IR without hurting ARR fans sentiments then u wont find me here :D ......
Not hurting anyone's sentiments here.... whether u stay here or not is ur call......

Shankar
29th July 2005, 02:20 PM
alwarpet_andavan,
Don't try quoting songs to maddy..pazhaya songs kAtti bayamurutharE nnuduvAr :-)

But, I don't think he wants to listen to them either...I gave him the link regarding some good stuff on bass guitar, I see no response from him...Nilavu pAttu is progressive rock.

maddy,
NOM...as i said earlier, listen to it with an open mind, you'll know the quality.

alwarpet_andavan
29th July 2005, 02:30 PM
I gave him the link regarding some good stuff on bass guitar
the links please.........

MADDY
29th July 2005, 04:44 PM
hey shanki, i shuld have missed those links as i was out of internet range for 3 days......i stay in mumbai and u mite know wat havoc we had to face.....

neways coming back to the topic, i think the arguements goes to show that u guys can see the beauty and styles in IR's compositions and i can see the same in ARR's but we will not be able to see other's gr8ness.....so i think we r from diff worlds......India and Pak can join hands but not ARR and IR fans.....we r born to fight with each other, i think......so lets fight until we die.... :D

MADDY
29th July 2005, 04:50 PM
open mind or closed mind, ARR is more versatile than IR......IR's dil bar jane starts like a gud dandiya song but moves of to bcome a normal tamil duet.......whereas ARR's mangal panndey contains a qawali and a Mujra that even SDBurman wud have been proud of.....

i was a rock listener few yrs back with me hooked upto metallica,pink floyd and cranberries but i never felt that IR had that flavor in him and his music never had metal touch in it....a man who doesent want synth, where will he use metal????

alwarpet_andavan
29th July 2005, 05:05 PM
Maddy, maddy maddy!
1. We (at least I) do see beauty in ARR's music. Who said we don't?
2. IR does use synths... everybody does...
3. Metal hasn't found its ways in the IF industry and if you still keep believing "Kannum kannum" is metal, good luck :)
Strange you say this even after listening to Metallica
4. Pink Floyd IS NOT metal, for fuck's sake!!!!
Their genre is called classic rock. they started with space rock and progressive rock when Syd Barrett was around, but primarily they play(played) rock and rock during the late 60s 70s and early 80s is known as classic rock

If you think Qawwali's are the ultimate and the single-most important factor in determining the quality of an MD, well, i have nothing to say :)

Ninnukkori varnam (Agni Natchathiram) - FUSION
Rosa poo (Agni Natchathiram)
Raja (Agni Natchathiram)
Oru Poongavanam (Agni Natchathiram)
Kannan vandhu paadugindraan (Rettai vaal kuruvi)
Vaan engum thanga (Moondram Pirai)
Thendral vandhu (Avatharam)
Anjali anjali (Anjali) - Harmony, counterpoint.... makes any sense to your "westernized" ears???
Rambambam (Michael Madhana Kamarajan) - Remember chuck Berry's Rock Around the Clock?
Kodai kala kaatre (Panneer Pushpangal)
Do these songs sound like "grama" paattu to you?
Ignore them, but you can't make sweeping remarks without listening to what competition you are up against.
Remember, i've barely scratched the surface and i'm not yet talked about Rerecording yet!!!!!! :)

rajasaranam
29th July 2005, 05:10 PM
.IR's dil bar jane starts like a gud dandiya song but moves of to bcome a normal tamil duet...


Thats IR-Genre after all. why dont you understand this :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

vimalpercy
29th July 2005, 06:27 PM
I dont like to down ARR for i like his song, but what we want to know is who is the complete musician or who is more talented.

and i found some very very interesting and useful information put forward my friends of IRR about song and its genere.Great reading that.

I have this doubt for a long time, ie, in Film Duet, the carnatic pieces which the famous Sax player Kadri played, is that notes were composed by ARR or Kadri himself played that and ARR impressed with that and had that in his film?? Most of the rhythms of Arr songs were done by Drummer Siva Mani and who get the credits for that Arr or Siva Mani??

In former posts more stress were given by Friend Maddy sir , only on western based generes not much on indian based ones.Arr has composed so many films untill today and did so many various kinds of films including village subject, city subject, modern subjects etc and his songs made for village subjects didnt anyway stood like IR and some examples are ulavan,karuthamma.IR's Salangai olie, Karagatakaran and ARr's Sangamam.Arr relished songs which are fast nos, Melodies but when comes to Folk which most of TF uses he couldnt Stand out or stamp his mark.

krish244
29th July 2005, 06:37 PM
rajasaranam, I loved your smiley there :) but why three of them?

MADDY
29th July 2005, 08:33 PM
Vimal, fact that IR has done 10 times more of ARR's films and he hasn't touched many of western genres is quite amazing!!! he has been concentrating too much on folk and carnatic music........

"Thats IR-Genre after all. why dont you understand this"
i think i have to accept this.....IR's songs carry his stamp only.....there r no specific genres composed by him..........RS aiyya i think we have similar ideas after many years :D

"We (at least I) do see beauty in ARR's music. Who said we don't? "
even i love IR's songs......infact my all time fav tamil song is "Malayil" from sathriyan........

"Metal hasn't found its ways in the IF industry and if you still keep believing "Kannum kannum" is metal, good luck"
i believe metal is a bit alien concept to Indians.....Kannum kannum had heavy shades of it......

"Pink Floyd IS NOT metal, for ****'s sake!!!! "
i never told pink floyd is metal......nor r the cranberries......

"If you think Qawwali's are the ultimate and the single-most important factor in determining the quality of an MD, well, i have nothing to say "
then according to u, MDs giving trance,hip-hop,clubhouse,qawali,mujras and good recording quality shuld not be recognised....isn't it???

"Ninnukkori varnam (Agni Natchathiram) - FUSION "
addnl. programming by ARR.....vimal, will u credit this song to ARR then????answer me my dearest friend :D .......

"Raja (Agni Natchathiram) "
this is a pathetic attempt by IR towards pop/break.......interlude makes me laugh with strange sounds like "pabapabapappupappu".... :lol:

"Vaan engum thanga (Moondram Pirai),Kodai kala kaatre (Panneer Pushpangal)"- i have never heard these songs...sorry.... :oops: ......

"Anjali anjali (Anjali) - Harmony, counterpoint.... makes any sense to your "westernized" ears???"
this is just a normal tamil cine song.....no special genre in it......summa edhuellam gr8 song-nnu sollathinga........

hey go to any level and any topic like BGM, alwarpet...i'm there to answer it back...... :D ......

nilavupriyan
29th July 2005, 09:14 PM
Vimal, fact that IR has done 10 times more of ARR's films and he hasn't touched many of western genres is quite amazing!!! he has been concentrating too much on folk and carnatic music........

"Thats IR-Genre after all. why dont you understand this"
i think i have to accept this.....IR's songs carry his stamp only.....there r no specific genres composed by him..........RS aiyya i think we have similar ideas after many years :D

"We (at least I) do see beauty in ARR's music. Who said we don't? "
even i love IR's songs......infact my all time fav tamil song is "Malayil" from sathriyan........

"Metal hasn't found its ways in the IF industry and if you still keep believing "Kannum kannum" is metal, good luck"
i believe metal is a bit alien concept to Indians.....Kannum kannum had heavy shades of it......

"Pink Floyd IS NOT metal, for ****'s sake!!!! "
i never told pink floyd is metal......nor r the cranberries......

"If you think Qawwali's are the ultimate and the single-most important factor in determining the quality of an MD, well, i have nothing to say "
then according to u, MDs giving trance,hip-hop,clubhouse,qawali,mujras and good recording quality shuld not be recognised....isn't it???

"Ninnukkori varnam (Agni Natchathiram) - FUSION "
addnl. programming by ARR.....vimal, will u credit this song to ARR then????answer me my dearest friend :D .......

"Raja (Agni Natchathiram) "
this is a pathetic attempt by IR towards pop/break.......interlude makes me laugh with strange sounds like "pabapabapappupappu".... :lol:

"Vaan engum thanga (Moondram Pirai),Kodai kala kaatre (Panneer Pushpangal)"- i have never heard these songs...sorry.... :oops: ......

"Anjali anjali (Anjali) - Harmony, counterpoint.... makes any sense to your "westernized" ears???"
this is just a normal tamil cine song.....no special genre in it......summa edhuellam gr8 song-nnu sollathinga........

hey go to any level and any topic like BGM, alwarpet...i'm there to answer it back...... :D ......
do u think the usage of electric guitar and key board makes a song western???????????
have u heard "nee partha paaravai"from heyy raam.thats a western type of melody with an excellent usage of piano.

"poo poothadhu"from mumbai express is also another western type of melody with a little jazz effect.

have u heard "thiruvasagam"?u can find the western music talent of ilayaraja.

another thing....why western.western.......western.will u accept a music director as good md only if he excells in western music.is carnatic music is not a music?.

arr havent given a sindhu bairavi or sangarabaranam yet...
music is not dress or something where we follow western style or fasion.it must make our soul enjoy.in that way ir is greater than anyone else

njv
29th July 2005, 09:41 PM
Ada vidungappa. Ippathaan IR=ARR war mudinchu ellaam santhosama irukkom, thiruppi aarambikkaatheenga.

please read what ARR say about IR. So thats all it matters. Hats of to ARR for his openness.

ARR fan, neengathaan konjam vittukodhuthtu ponga. Neengallam Ilasunga, indha perisugala mannichchidungalaen.

vimalpercy
29th July 2005, 09:50 PM
Vimal, fact that IR has done 10 times more of ARR's films and he hasn't touched many of western genres is quite amazing!!! he has been concentrating too much on folk and carnatic music........

He has ofcourse Touched most of them which were there on his time and he havent had any films in which there need to show those kinds of latest generes.

MADDY
29th July 2005, 11:15 PM
nilavu, even IR has not given a Boys/Thiruda thiruda.......the arguement here is who is the complete MD...so IR has to give all genres to be called complete....

nilavupriyan
29th July 2005, 11:20 PM
nilavu, even IR has not given a Boys/Thiruda thiruda.......the arguement here is who is the complete MD...so IR has to give all genres to be called complete....
what is special about thiruda thiruda...is it perfect western classical music or classical music.
but shankarabaranam has its own style.........THE CLASSICAL MUSIC

vimalpercy
29th July 2005, 11:34 PM
what is special about thiruda thiruda...is it perfect western classical music or classical music.
but shankarabaranam has its own style.........THE CLASSICAL MUSIC

Great pathiladi keep it up mate

vimalpercy
30th July 2005, 12:12 AM
My good friend Maddy,
I guess you are more of Arr listener than IR and that is why you are not able to figure out so many songs which IR composed.

You havent replied to my question about Kadri's Saxaphone question and Drmmer Sivamani isssue.


When you talk about IR, you can gurantee that 100% of the music which he composed are his own notes , his own thinking his own creativity.Can you say that for Arr??????

but that is not the issue here.Issue is who has more talent and who is a complete musician.There are so many talented Guitarists keyboardists and violinists in india but they were not able to become mds becuase they dont have the all-round skill which is required for the mds. People like Deva gave so many hit films but he never deserve any credits for his song becuase,he relied on other musicians for his song rather than his brain and imagination.

And very very important thing is ARR is a assistant to IR, where he learn the art of trade.I dont say a student cant become better than the teacher, But the value he has obtained from IR has helped ARR greatly.

njv
30th July 2005, 12:29 AM
Ada niruthungappa. For us if IR is god and genius, for Maddy and lot of younger generation ppl ARR is god and genius. There is nothing wrong in it.

Maddy

The years are changing, the usage of technology in music is changing, and the taste of ppl are changing. You are more sophisticated than your father and your son will be much more sophisticated than you, but this doesnt mean that you are better than your father or your son is better than you. All of us are better in their period. If you are hurt but IR fans hurting ARR, I would say, just ignore these ppl.

Jacky
30th July 2005, 03:10 AM
"what is special about thiruda thiruda...is it perfect western classical music or classical music. "

IR attempted a song of such type for Prabhudeva and ended up with Masatana Mastana which pales against ARR's dance numbers for PD. It's not as easy as you think :lol:

MADDY
30th July 2005, 08:37 AM
gr8 njv....i think u r the best IR-fan i've seen in yrs..... :D ....

vimal thinks half of ARR's compositions are not his......gr8......vimal have u ever noticed, after losing HJ,Sivamani,Ranjit bharot ARR has given swades,mangal pandey,bose......it shows he is the only one behind his music........

IR fans also think ARR's compositions r not gr8 and IR's is only gr8.....very bad mannn......i dont think i shld ever talk here, where there is no respect for ARR....bye guys....IR vazhga :D

nilavupriyan
30th July 2005, 09:09 AM
"what is special about thiruda thiruda...is it perfect western classical music or classical music. "

IR attempted a song of such type for Prabhudeva and ended up with Masatana Mastana which pales against ARR's dance numbers for PD. It's not as easy as you think :lol:

i ask what do u mean by that such type.thats my question.

Jacky
30th July 2005, 01:52 PM
Don't bother. Fulfill the objectives of this thread for what it was started. If you're still unclear ask the guy who started it. :banghead:

rajasaranam
30th July 2005, 10:55 PM
"what is special about thiruda thiruda...is it perfect western classical music or classical music. "

IR attempted a song of such type for Prabhudeva and ended up with Masatana Mastana which pales against ARR's dance numbers for PD. It's not as easy as you think :lol:

Prabhu Deva was brought to lime light by the songs 'April mayilae' and 'Chinna rasavae' by IR, 'Atak patak' and 'Metro Channel' By Deva. Probably you dont know these songs...Of course 'Chikku bukku' and 'Muqala' were bigger hits nationwide but that doesnt mean IR cant compose for PD.
and where was Prabhu deva in Thiruda Thiruda :roll:
Thiruda Thiruda had one good no. by ARR 'Konjum Nilavu' which was a rehash of tune - "thottam konda rasavae' from 'Pagalil oru iravu' by IR and that song was also a failed attempt to recreate the magic of 'Rakkamma kaiya thattu' with similar violin usage. thtsooo thtsooo :P

rajasaranam
30th July 2005, 11:01 PM
Nilavu,
MADDy has rated IR's 'Maalayil yaaro' from chatriyan as his best heard song and rated it above any of the ARR compositions. that means if he has 100 songs to listen from, the top 1 will be always 'Maalayil yaaro' be happy for that and leave him alone :)

Jacky
30th July 2005, 11:34 PM
Rajasaranam,
:banghead: :banghead: The context was modern dance music as somebody was looking down at TT and Boys.
I never said IR can't give any form of dance music, the numbers you've mentioned are pure IRish. They don't belong to the genre of Boys, Minsara Kanavu or TT which was looked down. If your IR can't match them with Mastana Mastana, Shaiya Shaiya or u-name-anything Why snub them off?

Jacky
31st July 2005, 12:04 AM
Rajasir!
I listened to thottam konda rajavey here
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/26/s/movie_name.5224/music_director.504/
The song reminds me of a Rajni number Appaney appaney pillayar appaney, nothing more than that. Ithukkum Konjam nilavukum mudichu potingaley Unga Kadamai unarchi ku alavey illaya? :huh:

nilavupriyan
31st July 2005, 10:34 AM
Rajasir!
I listened to thottam konda rajavey here
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/26/s/movie_name.5224/music_director.504/
The song reminds me of a Rajni number Appaney appaney pillayar appaney, nothing more than that. Ithukkum Konjam nilavukum mudichu potingaley Unga Kadamai unarchi ku alavey illaya? :huh:
i accept "konjam nilavu" as a great song.
but ilayaraja has given numerous songs like that such as "thatum thalangu thathom"from vetri vizha

Scale
31st July 2005, 11:12 AM
Rajasir!
I listened to thottam konda rajavey here
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/26/s/movie_name.5224/music_director.504/
The song reminds me of a Rajni number Appaney appaney pillayar appaney, nothing more than that. Ithukkum Konjam nilavukum mudichu potingaley Unga Kadamai unarchi ku alavey illaya? :huh:
i accept "konjam nilavu" as a great song.
but ilayaraja has given numerous songs like that such as "thatum thalangu thathom"from vetri vizha

nilavu! didnt u read this

Ithukkum Konjam nilavukum mudichu potingaley Unga Kadamai unarchi ku alavey illaya? :huh

Scale
31st July 2005, 11:15 AM
Nilavu,
MADDy has rated IR's 'Maalayil yaaro' from chatriyan as his best heard song and rated it above any of the ARR compositions. that means if he has 100 songs to listen from, the top 1 will be always 'Maalayil yaaro' be happy for that and leave him alone :)

Waiting for Maddy's reply whatever may be...

Nilavu leaving maddy, its been continuing from Kamal Vs SRK thread..... :lol:

pothumda saami.

MADDY
31st July 2005, 06:28 PM
yup scale...that's my most fav song(malayil from chatriyan) in TFM....if there is a poll for best ever song of TFM, i wud give it to this song........having said that, ARR's songs wud rate from 2-10.........

nilavu is never gonna leave me...avanai vittu poga mudiyuma kanna mudiyuma........ :lol:

Scale
31st July 2005, 07:42 PM
Maddy! I have seen your most fav song as this one on several posts. The reason why I pulled you is that u might reply diplomatically though its Ist on the list, you will repeat playing songs only even nos.... :wink:

Jk! If you notice my IInd post on this TFM, I appreciated your unbiased character which is strange to find in any ardent fan & admitting it honestly in discussion forum's.

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=116964&highlight=#116964

maddy bhai aisa kyun kiya?

which i will never ask knowing its your personal wish to rate and comment.......

& such similar dudes from IR fans are NJV & Jai. :clap:

nilavupriyan
31st July 2005, 08:05 PM
Maddy! I have seen your most fav song as this one on several posts. The reason why I pulled you is that u might reply diplomatically though its Ist on the list, you will keep it playing songs only even nos.... :wink:

Jk! If you notice my IInd post on this TFM, I appreciated your unbiased character which is strange to find in any ardent fan & admitting it honestly in discussion forum's.

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=116964&highlight=#116964

maddy bhai aisa kyun kiya?

which i will never ask knowing its your personal wish to rate and comment.......

& such similar dudes from IR fans are NJV & Jai. :clap:
nan koodathan unbiased :wink: :tongueout: :wink:

njv
31st July 2005, 09:28 PM
Rajasir!
I listened to thottam konda rajavey here
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/26/s/movie_name.5224/music_director.504/
The song reminds me of a Rajni number Appaney appaney pillayar appaney, nothing more than that. Ithukkum Konjam nilavukum mudichu potingaley Unga Kadamai unarchi ku alavey illaya? :huh:
I do see the rehash here. Dont expect the same tune here. You need to analyse the notes and find out. Likewise, Snegithiye from alaipayudhae is a rehash of neramidhu (and vijayr said they dont resemble each other - its not the same, but the heavy influence and rehash).

Jacky
31st July 2005, 10:07 PM
[tscii:1133462b93]Njv,
I don't think Snehidathaney is rehash of neramidhu. Infact Snehiathaney has longer classical interludes whilst Neramidhu is a sweet lullaby.
Regarding TT rehash can you give mins and secs where you found similarities? I'll listen to those parts again.
[/tscii:1133462b93]

rajasaranam
31st July 2005, 10:11 PM
Rajasir!
I listened to thottam konda rajavey here
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/26/s/movie_name.5224/music_director.504/
The song reminds me of a Rajni number Appaney appaney pillayar appaney, nothing more than that. Ithukkum Konjam nilavukum mudichu potingaley Unga Kadamai unarchi ku alavey illaya? :huh:

Sorry Jacky that was 'Veerapandi kotayilae' which got confused with 'Kojam nilavu' Listen to 'Veerapandi' and 'Thottam konda' The tune is exactly same while 'Veerapandi' tried to recreate the magic of 'Rakkama' too with its heavy violin based orchestration.

Jacky
31st July 2005, 10:22 PM
I'm afraid Rajasaranam I can't agree with you this time too. Veerapandi kotailyele had plenty of western interludes and what is evidently common is the high pitch singer takes whilst singing VPK and TKR. IMHO, if you start copyrighting the pitches high or low or whatever then no composer will survive.
Will you accept IR lifted Rum bum bum from Malarendra mugam onru? Or say did KR lift Viswanathan Velai vendum for Kasumela?

rajasaranam
31st July 2005, 10:25 PM
Rajasaranam,
:banghead: :banghead: The context was modern dance music as somebody was looking down at TT and Boys.
I never said IR can't give any form of dance music, the numbers you've mentioned are pure IRish. They don't belong to the genre of Boys, Minsara Kanavu or TT which was looked down. If your IR can't match them with Mastana Mastana, Shaiya Shaiya or u-name-anything Why snub them off?

You can bang your head how much ever you want :)
That doesnt justify that IR has never matched the criteria you mention. This can go on into a debate- can ARR match a 'Anjali' or 'Agni Natchathiram' etc., This matching process was started by Maddy questioning Nilvau whether IR can give a BOYS. Sure he would have but the music would have been different and similarly ARR could have given a Anjali according to his musical skills.
I know for sure that IR has traveresed, explored and experimented with all the genres Maddy has mentioned and more too. But all of them bear the stamp of IR hence you will always comment that it too IRish . This comment makes me happy for that 'IR has created his own genre'. Hence forth lets call all IR compostions, as belonging to IR genre :)

Jacky
31st July 2005, 10:30 PM
"You can bang your head how much ever you want "

Thanks you've improved. You edited your comments about TT and Pdeva that has made my life simpler!

vimalpercy
1st August 2005, 02:18 AM
If IR is asked to create music for Boys in his own style, he still can create music which may matches 80% as Arr Did and he have the talent and capability to do that.

But IF Arr is asked to create music for Salangai Oli, i doubt he can do even 30 or 40% as IR did.

Rakkama kaia thattu still stands out where as veerapandi kottaile not to be. and that is the difference where ir can give ever lasting classics.

How many guitar Riffs, how many Piano riffs and how many variations in simple Walz patterns and geniousness of combining a Carnatic based Song with western Chord pattern. That is really some talent, i wish i born like IR in my next birth.IR is a knowledge Bank for any muscian.

app_engine
1st August 2005, 08:42 AM
vimal, sankarabaranam is by KVM:-)

NOV
1st August 2005, 09:25 AM
when one wears rose coloured glasses, it will APPEAR that the world is rose coloured....

Scale
1st August 2005, 10:19 AM
vimal, sankarabaranam is by KVM:-)

nalla vela internet mattum illana innum inna inna peela voduvinghannu theriyila.....

now vimal, u better start comparing KVM & ARR wearing those rose coloured glasses :lol: .

vimalpercy
1st August 2005, 07:35 PM
sorry friends,
I just wrongly typed Sankaraparanam for Salangai oli.
My mistake sorry for that. :cry: :shock:

Scale
1st August 2005, 09:20 PM
sorry friends,
I just wrongly typed Sankaraparanam for Salangai oli.
My mistake sorry for that. :cry: :shock:

I know that you are talking about salangai oli very much.

What made me to pick all those emoticons is that ARR couldnt have done even 30% of IR.

Just listen to Sangamam, Iruvar (Narumugaiye), Kannodo (jeans), etc and I am sure that he has the potential & knowledge to compose for any type of music.

My previous post edited.

MADDY
1st August 2005, 09:37 PM
hey hey hey......lets put an end to this(sorry if i had started it :wink: )........

as bernie eccelstone(F1 boss) said last year,nobody(schumi) is bigger than the show(F1), IR and ARR are not bigger than musical genres as a whole.........both of them have handled many genres accordng to thier skill levels and with their choice of instruments........so it wud be futile to compare their works on the basis of no. of genres/BGMs/no. of assitants they had/no. of fans they have.....so i think we shuld stop here feeling happy that both the parties have a little respect for the other party and leave it rite there.....if u still wanna continue like ARR wud failed trying to compose a salangai oli or IR wud have scored a state rank trying to compose Boys, then pls go ahead.....i think it wud be gr8 if we all stop here with gud feelings....... :D

nilavupriyan
1st August 2005, 10:14 PM
sorry friends,
I just wrongly typed Sankaraparanam for Salangai oli.
My mistake sorry for that. :cry: :shock:

I know that you are talking about salangai oli very much.

What made me to pick all those emoticons is that ARR couldnt have done even 30% of IR.

Just listen to Sangamam, Iruvar (Narumugaiye), Kannodo (jeans), etc and I am sure that he has the potential & knowledge to compose for any type of music.

My previous post edited.
but they didnt sound classical.have u heard classical music in any saba?

rajasaranam
2nd August 2005, 01:14 AM
but they didnt sound classical.have u heard classical music in any saba?

Nilavu sorry we will not be able to sit for even 5 mins listening to classical music in any saba :) [take it lightly dude :) ]

As far as my take on this issue. Sure IR has composed many classical music based songs but he too was criticized for diluting it for making it reach to the masses.

ARR went even further in fusing Classical music and synthesized music to make it appealing for the younger generation. Well it was his choice catering to a particular group. And they liked it too.

Dont worry IR has explored this area too already, listen to 'Kaadhal kasakuthaiyya' from Aan paavam :wink: a marriage of tamil folk, classical and western pop. or listen to the recent 'Katrinilae varum' from AOKK for two different versions.one heavily based on classical while the other relying upon synthesized music.

nothing is purely classical here, for that sake even classical music is not in its purest form. IR has oft quoted such things about music. It is only the percentage of mixture which matters. The songs which ARR fans mention had heavy classical percentage hence it sounded more of classical music.

but definetely i would rate Sindhu bairavi, sagarasangamam or a kaadhal oviyum by IR for great classical based nos. while Maddy, scale or alias would rate 'Narumugaye' / kannodu etc., as great classical nos.

Scale
2nd August 2005, 10:29 AM
Thanks a lot RS! for your explanation & apologies for my following post.

nilavu! U dont even know that the songs I mentioned are heavily classical (fusioned) and the singers B'bay Jayshree, Nithyashree, Unnikrishnan, Shankar Mahadevan etc are excellent classical singers and have done numerous sabas.... Nee avangaloda periya *****nu nenaippa. Even if I mentioned "Nila Kaigiradhu - Indra" Hariharan and Harini versions ur reply will be the same. Ivangalellam sabala vokkarthu iruntha vonnamathiri innum pidil thaan vaasikka mudiyum.

Yenda sodabutti "saba"pathi unnakku olunga sonna yethuvume puriyadha. JC style la thaan sollanuma (I didnt notice this one, tho I saw JC post, otherwise I shud have replied b4 RS! innum galeeja). Illa execute panna thaan puriyuma. U are a shame to the legends KH & IR fans (maar thatti kolvathil).



mr nilavu ungala al set panni adikaporen. ore oru phone thaan. saidapet gajavukku. nalaikku ethukum konjam pathu paniva nadanthunkonga. lighta thatta solren.
enamo ponga.ungalluku 7.5 arampichachu
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=185520&highlight=#185520
.

:lol: :rotfl:


Stop spamming in each and every thread. Otherwise! dring... dring... PEST CONTROL ?

nilavupriyan
2nd August 2005, 11:05 AM
Thanks a lot RS! for your explanation & apologies for my following post.

nilavu! U dont even know that the songs I mentioned are heavily classical (fusioned) and the singers B'bay Jayshree, Nithyashree, Unnikrishnan, Shankar Mahadevan etc are excellent classical singers and have done numerous sabas.... Nee avangaloda periya *****nu nenaippa. Even if I mentioned "Nila Kaigiradhu - Indra" Hariharan and Harini versions ur reply will be the same. Ivangalellam sabala vokkarthu iruntha vonnamathiri innum pidil thaan vaasikka mudiyum.

Yenda sodabutti "saba"pathi unnakku olunga sonna yethuvume puriyadha. JC style la thaan sollanuma (I didnt notice this one, tho I saw JC post, otherwise I shud have replied b4 RS! innum galeeja). Illa execute panna thaan puriyuma. U are a shame to the legends KH & IR fans (maar thatti kolvathil).



mr nilavu ungala al set panni adikaporen. ore oru phone thaan. saidapet gajavukku. nalaikku ethukum konjam pathu paniva nadanthunkonga. lighta thatta solren.
enamo ponga.ungalluku 7.5 arampichachu
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=185520&highlight=#185520
.

:lol: :rotfl:


Stop spamming in each and every thread. Otherwise! dring... dring... PEST CONTROL ?

avarukku saidapet kaja theriyumna enakku thandaiyarpeta maariya theriyum.mavane pinni pedaleduthuruvaan....jaakiradhaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiii. :twisted: :lol:

Scale
2nd August 2005, 11:07 AM
Thanks a lot RS! for your explanation & apologies for my following post.

nilavu! U dont even know that the songs I mentioned are heavily classical (fusioned) and the singers B'bay Jayshree, Nithyashree, Unnikrishnan, Shankar Mahadevan etc are excellent classical singers and have done numerous sabas.... Nee avangaloda periya *****nu nenaippa. Even if I mentioned "Nila Kaigiradhu - Indra" Hariharan and Harini versions ur reply will be the same. Ivangalellam sabala vokkarthu iruntha vonnamathiri innum pidil thaan vaasikka mudiyum.

Yenda sodabutti "saba"pathi unnakku olunga sonna yethuvume puriyadha. JC style la thaan sollanuma (I didnt notice this one, tho I saw JC post, otherwise I shud have replied b4 RS! innum galeeja). Illa execute panna thaan puriyuma. U are a shame to the legends KH & IR fans (maar thatti kolvathil).



mr nilavu ungala al set panni adikaporen. ore oru phone thaan. saidapet gajavukku. nalaikku ethukum konjam pathu paniva nadanthunkonga. lighta thatta solren.
enamo ponga.ungalluku 7.5 arampichachu
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=185520&highlight=#185520
.

:lol: :rotfl:


Stop spamming in each and every thread. Otherwise! dring... dring... PEST CONTROL ?

avarukku saidapet kaja theriyumna enakku thandaiyarpeta maariya theriyum.mavane pinni pedaleduthuruvaan....jaakiradhaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiii. :twisted: :lol:

naan irukkarathe tondiarpetla thaanda! yenda intha film....

nilavupriyan
2nd August 2005, 11:09 AM
Thanks a lot RS! for your explanation & apologies for my following post.

nilavu! U dont even know that the songs I mentioned are heavily classical (fusioned) and the singers B'bay Jayshree, Nithyashree, Unnikrishnan, Shankar Mahadevan etc are excellent classical singers and have done numerous sabas.... Nee avangaloda periya *****nu nenaippa. Even if I mentioned "Nila Kaigiradhu - Indra" Hariharan and Harini versions ur reply will be the same. Ivangalellam sabala vokkarthu iruntha vonnamathiri innum pidil thaan vaasikka mudiyum.

Yenda sodabutti "saba"pathi unnakku olunga sonna yethuvume puriyadha. JC style la thaan sollanuma (I didnt notice this one, tho I saw JC post, otherwise I shud have replied b4 RS! innum galeeja). Illa execute panna thaan puriyuma. U are a shame to the legends KH & IR fans (maar thatti kolvathil).

mr nilavu ungala al set panni adikaporen. ore oru phone thaan. saidapet gajavukku. nalaikku ethukum konjam pathu paniva nadanthunkonga. lighta thatta solren.
enamo ponga.ungalluku 7.5 arampichachu
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=185520&highlight=#185520
.

:lol: :rotfl:


Stop spamming in each and every thread. Otherwise! dring... dring... PEST CONTROL ?
mavane b*d*.ilayaraja threada naaradikka venamnu paatha ovara pora.periya p***a nee.idhukku mela unakku mariyadhai illai.
im controlling myself for thiru.

nilavupriyan
2nd August 2005, 11:11 AM
Thanks a lot RS! for your explanation & apologies for my following post.

nilavu! U dont even know that the songs I mentioned are heavily classical (fusioned) and the singers B'bay Jayshree, Nithyashree, Unnikrishnan, Shankar Mahadevan etc are excellent classical singers and have done numerous sabas.... Nee avangaloda periya *****nu nenaippa. Even if I mentioned "Nila Kaigiradhu - Indra" Hariharan and Harini versions ur reply will be the same. Ivangalellam sabala vokkarthu iruntha vonnamathiri innum pidil thaan vaasikka mudiyum.

Yenda sodabutti "saba"pathi unnakku olunga sonna yethuvume puriyadha. JC style la thaan sollanuma (I didnt notice this one, tho I saw JC post, otherwise I shud have replied b4 RS! innum galeeja). Illa execute panna thaan puriyuma. U are a shame to the legends KH & IR fans (maar thatti kolvathil).



mr nilavu ungala al set panni adikaporen. ore oru phone thaan. saidapet gajavukku. nalaikku ethukum konjam pathu paniva nadanthunkonga. lighta thatta solren.
enamo ponga.ungalluku 7.5 arampichachu
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=185520&highlight=#185520
.

:lol: :rotfl:


Stop spamming in each and every thread. Otherwise! dring... dring... PEST CONTROL ?

avarukku saidapet kaja theriyumna enakku thandaiyarpeta maariya theriyum.mavane pinni pedaleduthuruvaan....jaakiradhaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiii. :twisted: :lol:

naan irukkarathe tondiarpetla thaanda! yenda intha film....
nan irukkum saidapetla kaja va theriyumna nee irukkura thandayarpetla enakku maariya theriyakoodaadhada ****

Scale
2nd August 2005, 11:12 AM
Aattam close! Mutrum.

Sorry guys!

:(

MADDY
2nd August 2005, 11:15 AM
"im controlling myself for thiru"

aathirathai adakkalam ana avasaratha adakkakoodathu........thiru onnum solla maataru....takkunnu toilet poittu vanthudunga :D ..........

nilavupriyan
2nd August 2005, 11:17 AM
"im controlling myself for thiru"

aathirathai adakkalam ana avasaratha adakkakoodathu........thiru onnum solla maataru....takkunnu toilet poittu vanthudunga :D ..........
ok maddy.konjam vaaya thiranga

MADDY
2nd August 2005, 04:44 PM
i know u have a toilet built in ur mouth, but unfortunately i have it near my bedroom and not in my mouth :D .........and y do u wanna risk ur life coming to mumbai in rains for just a pis*..........

nilavupriyan
2nd August 2005, 04:49 PM
i know u have a toilet built in ur mouth, but unfortunately i have it near my bedroom and not in my mouth :D .........and y do u wanna risk ur life coming to mumbai in rains for just a pis*..........

to wash ur mouth atleast once by pis*ing

Shankar
2nd August 2005, 05:00 PM
THAT'S ENUF !!! Get back to the discussion guyz ! Pls stop bickering like kids...Show some maturity, folks.

jaiganes
2nd August 2005, 06:34 PM
old forumhub is runing before my eyes.!!!!
Gosh!!!
now whats the topic all about?
"Validating the talent thru BGM"
Oh yes.!!!
Very ggod topic.
I agree that the real talent of an MD comes to fore only with BGM (Not just because IR is good at it).
The reason is , there is no lyricist who can provide his creative inputs and in most cases the BGM will reflect the actual emotion or feel that the director will have in his/her mind without anybody else's assistance.
To put in another perspective, imagine you are shown 10 mins of video and asked to write up a passage on it and also to title it. Kinda easy if you have good language skills, observation and imagination (to fill in portions and circumstances behind the part before and after the 10 mins). Now what if the challenge is to write it as musical notes? That is what BGM is all about. And Hence it is proved that the real talent of an MD can be validated only in BGMs.

vimalpercy
2nd August 2005, 09:33 PM
Hello Jaiganesh Sir,
Excellent Comment, I guess you have given the finishing touch to this discussion and given a very valied answer for the question.

thumburu
5th August 2005, 04:05 PM
jacky, I would any day rate "mastaa mastana" several times greater than the dismal dud ARR gave to PD as "romeo aattam pottaal" in mr.romeo

Cacaphonix
5th August 2005, 09:42 PM
dismal dud ARR gave to PD

thumburu,

Neenga ARR-a dismal dud-ngareengaLaa illa "romeo aattam pottaal" paatta sollureengaLaa?

NaaraayaNa NaaraayaNa :)

"I have not heard those songs because i will not like them still you are crap" appadeengara range-kku thittu vaangi Thunburu-veergaL jaakradhai.

thumburu
8th August 2005, 03:32 PM
cacaphonix, neengal konjam porumaiyudanUM, "," (COMMA)vudanum padiyungal

Cacaphonix
8th August 2005, 07:27 PM
thumburu,

naan comma fullstop ellaam sEththu thaan padikkarEn. Aana maththavanga appadi padippaangaLaannu sandhEgam thaan. So I just warned u of that :)

alias
9th August 2005, 03:24 AM
jacky, I would any day rate "mastaa mastana" several times greater than the dismal dud ARR gave to PD as "romeo aattam pottaal" in mr.romeo

God... what a karikalam.. crap songs like Mastana Mastana are being compared with Romeo attam pottal... Prabhu Deva would have greater fun dancing for Romea attam pootal than to dance for lame song Mastana mastana. :lol:

alwarpet_andavan
9th August 2005, 11:31 AM
jacky, I would any day rate "mastaa mastana" several times greater than the dismal dud ARR gave to PD as "romeo aattam pottaal" in mr.romeo

God... what a karikalam.. crap songs like Mastana Mastana are being compared with Romeo attam pottal... Prabhu Deva would have greater fun dancing for Romea attam pootal than to dance for lame song Mastana mastana. :lol:
Neenga enna Prabhu Deva manasatchiya???

thumburu
9th August 2005, 12:29 PM
"Aana maththavanga appadi padippaangaLaannu sandhEgam thaan. So I just warned u of that " - cacaphonix, neenga enna andha "mathavanga" Loda manasaatchiyaa?

Cacaphonix
9th August 2005, 09:45 PM
thumburu,

naan maththavangaLOda manasaatchiyaa irundhaa "SandhEgam thaan" appadeengaradhE vandhirukkaadhu. oru guess thaan, based on behaviour analysis. mosa pudikkara naaya moonjiya paaththE kaNdupidikkaradhu illa, adhu maadhiri thaan :)

hehehewalrus
11th August 2005, 07:32 AM
Music-la aarambicha discussion comma, grammar-ellaam cover panni kadaisila veterinary doctor level-la nikkudhu :)