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S.Balaji
19th July 2005, 10:04 PM
Dear Friends,

I wish to initiate discussion and debate on this topic.

Lets analyse who could bring the best out of IR.

Is it Barathi Raja , KB , Mahendran , Balumahendra, Maniratnam , R.Sundarajan , Panju Arunachalam etc etc or whom ???

Sanjeevi
19th July 2005, 11:33 PM
Bharathi Raja
Mani Rathnam
Balu Mahendra
Mahendran
Balachandar
P. Vasu
S.P.Muthuraman

njv
20th July 2005, 03:28 AM
Tell me which director is not, as the this list will go on for ever. I certainly feel that Shankar didnt use IR and hoping will use IR for one of his future movie.

nanchil_guy
22nd July 2005, 08:25 PM
to me

mahendran tops the list.look at all of his movies both the BGM and songs are soul searching, wonder ful .there are no words to describe the experience when u listen those songs or BGMs.


here is my top 5 of mahendran - IR combination

1.Jhonny
2.mullum malarum
3.nenjathai killathey
4.uthiri pookkal
5.ninaivellam nithya

what do u think guys?

app_engine
22nd July 2005, 08:36 PM
nanchil, your #5 is not by Mahendran...it's a Sridhar movie.

app_engine
22nd July 2005, 08:41 PM
add Sridhar to this long list of directors; some of IR's masterpieces were with Sridhar:
-iLamai oonjalAdukiRadhu
-azhagE unnai ArAdhikkiREn
-ninaivellAm nithyA
-thendRalE ennaiththodu
-oru Odai nadhiyAkiRadhu
-nAnum oru thozhilALi (because of being dormant for a long time, the songs sounded not contemporary when released, but sound fine now - `oru pooveduththu vaikkaNum pinnAla')

S.Balaji
22nd July 2005, 09:23 PM
add Sridhar to this long list of directors; some of IR's masterpieces were with Sridhar:
-iLamai oonjalAdukiRadhu
-azhagE unnai ArAdhikkiREn
-ninaivellAm nithyA
-thendRalE ennaiththodu
-oru Odai nadhiyAkiRadhu
-nAnum oru thozhilALi (because of being dormant for a long time, the songs sounded not contemporary when released, but sound fine now - `oru pooveduththu vaikkaNum pinnAla')

Boss,

Add - Thanthuvitten ennai ( acted by Vikram )

Nice songs from IR. including thenral nee thingal nee by SPB and SJ

alias
23rd July 2005, 02:16 AM
It is the greatest director on earth MANIRATNAM... Not one song from Maniratnam with IR can be thrown in the dustbin. Each one is gem of its own. Still cherishing that golden alliance.

S.Balaji
23rd July 2005, 11:41 AM
It is the greatest director on earth MANIRATNAM... Not one song from Maniratnam with IR can be thrown in the dustbin. Each one is gem of its own. Still cherishing that golden alliance.

But I dont think anybody would have got the best other than BR.

Even MR goofed up the song - Ninnukori varnam by giving flash lights etc etc and it was quite an awful sight

KB spoilt the song - Guruvayoorappa - Pudhu pudhu arthangal

I dont see any song which BR spoilt

vimalpercy
25th July 2005, 12:33 AM
I can add one more film of Balu Mahendra
a film called Veedu which is known for his BGM which IR has put in his album How To name it.

S.Balaji
25th July 2005, 11:58 AM
I can add one more film of Balu Mahendra
a film called Veedu which is known for his BGM which IR has put in his album How To name it.

Vimal,

Veedu was a nice movie. Yes, it was known for its back ground score as there was no song in it

Rettai vaal kuruvi was also by Balu Mahendra , I think and all songs were hit

Ravi_odiyur
25th July 2005, 12:05 PM
S.Balaji, you are saying Bharathiraja did not spoil any IR's songs? Check again. I used to get sick watching the "devathais" (in white gowns) coming out of no where for almost all songs. I think BR was so obsessed with the white gown "devathais" plus the sunflower with the heroine's face next to it, hero chasing heroine and putting a brake abruptly, hero removing the thorn from heroine's foot - oh! these scenes were so predictable in a typical BR movie.

Btw, how comes you all missed out Fazil? - a true loyalist to IR's compositions.

S.Balaji
25th July 2005, 12:27 PM
S.Balaji, you are saying Bharathiraja did not spoil any IR's songs? Check again. I used to get sick watching the "devathais" (in white gowns) coming out of no where for almost all songs. I think BR was so obsessed with the white gown "devathais" plus the sunflower with the heroine's face next to it, hero chasing heroine and putting a brake abruptly, hero removing the thorn from heroine's foot - oh! these scenes were so predictable in a typical BR movie.

Btw, how comes you all missed out Fazil? - a true loyalist to IR's compositions.

Ravi,

Ys yes, you are right. SOmehow, we missed out Fazil. GOod director and also used IR well enough.

Varusham 16
Poovay poochudava
Kadhalukku mariyaadhai

etc etc

alias
25th July 2005, 10:10 PM
It is the greatest director on earth MANIRATNAM... Not one song from Maniratnam with IR can be thrown in the dustbin. Each one is gem of its own. Still cherishing that golden alliance.

But I dont think anybody would have got the best other than BR.

Even MR goofed up the song - Ninnukori varnam by giving flash lights etc etc and it was quite an awful sight

KB spoilt the song - Guruvayoorappa - Pudhu pudhu arthangal

I dont see any song which BR spoilt

Dude what are u saying MR spoiled it.. he actually enhanced it to look great... The lighting by PC Sriram was the cream of the movie nad i think it suited the songs well. And well I cannot say BR did justice to every song of IR... The example being En Uyir Thozan and Nadodi Thendral where some of the songs were not well picturized and not upto mark

S.Balaji
25th July 2005, 10:23 PM
It is the greatest director on earth MANIRATNAM... Not one song from Maniratnam with IR can be thrown in the dustbin. Each one is gem of its own. Still cherishing that golden alliance.

But I dont think anybody would have got the best other than BR.

Even MR goofed up the song - Ninnukori varnam by giving flash lights etc etc and it was quite an awful sight

KB spoilt the song - Guruvayoorappa - Pudhu pudhu arthangal

I dont see any song which BR spoilt

Dude what are u saying MR spoiled it.. he actually enhanced it to look great... The lighting by PC Sriram was the cream of the movie nad i think it suited the songs well. And well I cannot say BR did justice to every song of IR... The example being En Uyir Thozan and Nadodi Thendral where some of the songs were not well picturized and not upto mark

Friend,

Please see the song - Ninnukoree varnam , again. Your eyes will be affected !!. For sure, MR goofed up that song. He did not have any clue on how picturise it.

BRs 99% of picturisation will be imaginative and creative. VIsual delight

app_engine
25th July 2005, 10:48 PM
"BRs 99% of picturisation will be imaginative and creative. VIsual delight"....

-I guess alaigal Oyvathillai falls into that 1%:-) (cheap and vulgar)
-And nobody knows about a movie called `vAlibame vA vA' which sunk without a trace, was it part of 99% or 1%
-If you want a demo about how to spoil the greatest of songs, just watch the film nizhalgaL...some of the best ever songs for TFM - poongathavE, thAzh thiRavAi & madai thiRandhu...murder...adhuvum 1%-il varum.
-One woman whom nobody would like see giving lip movements for any song is Rathi Agnihotri (I suffered watching vAn mEghangaLE on a video last week...andha ammAvukku Thamizh theriyAdhungaRadhukkAga, vAya eppadi vEnA kOnalamO?)...atrocious...down goes into dust bin those pudhiya vArpugaL & niRam mARadha pookkaL:-(

No doubt picturisation of songs in SOME BR movies were novel, absolute stunners, phenomenal...(16 vayadhinilE, KP rayil -Radhika is so lovely in poovarasam poo pooththAchchu, even after this many years the song is watchable, kadalOrakkavidhaigaL & best of all mudhal mariyAdhai)...

BR picturisation of songs - I'll give him 50 marks. MR will easily get 90 plus...

app_engine
25th July 2005, 10:52 PM
IMHO, one director who can come close to MR in music videos (i.e. among those who worked with IR) is R Sundarrajan...

I'm actually planning to start a thread in the "Current" forum exclusively for appreciation of good videos...(& the first one will be `kuzhaloodhum kaNNanukku')...

vijayr
25th July 2005, 11:45 PM
BR goofed up many songs and also had a habit of omitting the best songs from the movie - puththam pudhu kaalai, oru kanam oru yugamaaga, dhooraththil naan kanda un mugam, malargale nadhaswarangal, raasave unna nambi etc.

As for doing visual justice to IR's songs, Mahendran, Manirathnam and to a lesser extent BaluMahendra are my top picks.

vijayr
25th July 2005, 11:47 PM
I believe Baharathiraaja left out Naadham en jeevane from Kaadhal oviyam too (?!!) or some other song.

njv
25th July 2005, 11:50 PM
app_engine

I would love to have a thread for R Sundarrajan. I am a big fan of him, not just for his movies, but also his voice. In Amman Koil Kizhakkalae he has given voice to pretty much every pass by village characters (Its funny if you notice it now!). I love his combination with Satyaraj also, specially Thirumathi Palanisamy.

S.Balaji
26th July 2005, 12:12 AM
app_engine

I would love to have a thread for R Sundarrajan. I am a big fan of him, not just for his movies, but also his voice. In Amman Koil Kizhakkalae he has given voice to pretty much every pass by village characters (Its funny if you notice it now!). I love his combination with Satyaraj also, specially Thirumathi Palanisamy.

R.Sundarajan brought out some good ones from IR. Infact, he is well known for situation songs and also for double climax .His association with IR :

Payanangal mudivadhilay
Amman koil kizakaalay
Mella thirandhathu kadavu
Vaidaygee kaathirunthaal
Naan paadum paadal

For strange reasons, he gave up his direction and became a character artist.

Yes, one of those guys who brought the best out of IR

app_engine
26th July 2005, 12:26 AM
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=179321#179321

I've opened this thread for appreciation of videos...

S.Balaji
26th July 2005, 12:23 PM
BR goofed up many songs and also had a habit of omitting the best songs from the movie - puththam pudhu kaalai, oru kanam oru yugamaaga, dhooraththil naan kanda un mugam, malargale nadhaswarangal, raasave unna nambi etc.

As for doing visual justice to IR's songs, Mahendran, Manirathnam and to a lesser extent BaluMahendra are my top picks.

Dear Vijay,

If the situation does not warrant that song, the Director had every right to edit it as ultimately he is going to own up accountability for success or failure of the film. Hence, BR would have thought that they may not fit in for the situation .

Raasavay unnai nambi- you mean mudhal mariyaadhai - it was very much there in the movie , Radha recollecting about Shivaji in that song.

S.Balaji
26th July 2005, 12:25 PM
I believe Baharathiraaja left out Naadham en jeevane from Kaadhal oviyam too (?!!) or some other song.

Dear Vijay,

Nadham yen jeevanay appeared in Kadhal oviyam.

Another visually delightful movie, all songs well captured on screen

S.Balaji
26th July 2005, 05:36 PM
I think we have to consider - RV UDAYAKUMAR also in this list

1. Kizakku vaasal
2. Ponnumani
3. Singaravelan
4. Ejaman
5. Chinna thambi

I think he also got the best out of IR.

An artistic director . Sad, he is also not in the limelight now a days.

njv
26th July 2005, 07:08 PM
i thought chinnathambi is by p vasu

S.Balaji
26th July 2005, 07:10 PM
i thought chinnathambi is by p vasu

Dear NJV,

Sorry, I correct it.

I mean Chinna kounder

vimalpercy
28th July 2005, 04:17 AM
I like to add one more directory Called Kathir

whose Film Idhayam was a classic known for his songs and BGM.

The discussion has gone little offtrack where some talk about talent of the directors in creating the picturisation of the song rather than who has utilized most of IR.

It is very hard to compare which directory best used IR, listing what are the films they have used IR for,
Rather we can compare how the same directors prospered against other MD's other than IR.

Eg Maniratnam, whose songs with IR and ARR all are excellent and so it shows the natural talent of the Director in getting the best out of the director.My point is he has the talent to get the best out of a mD and he did that successfully against all of them. Even AAsai is an example where maniratnam do involved in that film and songs by Deva was a hit at that time.So across the span of 3 MDS Maniratnam scores the most points.

Second director who come close to this is Barathiraja, whose involment with other mDs is also relatively successful but not as Maniratnam.

S.Balaji
28th July 2005, 06:17 PM
Hello VImal,

R.Sundararajan was another guy who got really the best out of IR. He stands tall amongst the whole lot. Probably BR comes close to him.

nilavupriyan
28th July 2005, 06:28 PM
this is my list
1)balachander
2)barathiraja
3)mani ratnam
4)faazil
5)mahendran
6)kamal haasan

the order may change according to their tastes

S.Balaji
28th July 2005, 06:40 PM
this is my list
1)balachander
2)barathiraja
3)mani ratnam
4)faazil
5)mahendran
6)kamal haasan

the order may change according to their tastes

My listing order will be :

1. BR
2. R.Sundarrajan
3. MR
4. Mahendran
5. Fazil
6. Kamal
7. RV Udayakumar
8. KB

nilavupriyan
28th July 2005, 06:50 PM
this is my list
1)balachander
2)barathiraja
3)mani ratnam
4)faazil
5)mahendran
6)kamal haasan

the order may change according to their tastes

My listing order will be :

1. BR
2. R.Sundarrajan
3. MR
4. Mahendran
5. Fazil
6. Kamal
7. RV Udayakumar
8. KB
why kb atlast
did u forgot
1)sindhu bairavi
2)unnal mudiyum thambi
3)puthu puthu arthangal(really great songs)
4)punnagai mannan

S.Balaji
28th July 2005, 06:55 PM
this is my list
1)balachander
2)barathiraja
3)mani ratnam
4)faazil
5)mahendran
6)kamal haasan

the order may change according to their tastes

My listing order will be :

1. BR
2. R.Sundarrajan
3. MR
4. Mahendran
5. Fazil
6. Kamal
7. RV Udayakumar
8. KB
why kb atlast
did u forgot
1)sindhu bairavi
2)unnal mudiyum thambi
3)puthu puthu arthangal(really great songs)
4)punnagai mannan


Hello Nilavu,

The topic is - WHICH DIRECTOR GOT THE BEST OUT OF IR. The underlying message is - WHich director got the maximum stuff out of IR and got the best for us.

In that sense, in Pudhu pudhu arthangal and Punnagai mannan - KB really goofed up on picturisation. Infact Ir himself commented about this on one occasion and this was the reason that they got separated soon.

nilavupriyan
28th July 2005, 06:58 PM
this is my list
1)balachander
2)barathiraja
3)mani ratnam
4)faazil
5)mahendran
6)kamal haasan

the order may change according to their tastes

My listing order will be :

1. BR
2. R.Sundarrajan
3. MR
4. Mahendran
5. Fazil
6. Kamal
7. RV Udayakumar
8. KB
why kb atlast
did u forgot
1)sindhu bairavi
2)unnal mudiyum thambi
3)puthu puthu arthangal(really great songs)
4)punnagai mannan


Hello Nilavu,

The topic is - WHICH DIRECTOR GOT THE BEST OUT OF IR. The underlying message is - WHich director got the maximum stuff out of IR and got the best for us.

In that sense, in Pudhu pudhu arthangal and Punnagai mannan - KB really goofed up on picturisation. Infact Ir himself commented about this on one occasion and this was the reason that they got separated soon.
do u mean kb didnt picturise well?thats the reason for their split?

S.Balaji
28th July 2005, 07:07 PM
Yes my dear Nilavupriyan,

It was the song - Guruvayoorappa which was totally goofed up by KB which made IR wonder and even asked KB about that song for which KB had to retreat.

In this song, KB will show Rehman and Geetha like king and queen in the end of the song etc etc. It was just horrible.

This movie was the beginning of the end of KB - IR association.

saradhaa_sn
31st July 2005, 03:42 PM
Yes my dear Nilavupriyan,

It was the song - Guruvayoorappa which was totally goofed up by KB which made IR wonder and even asked KB about that song for which KB had to retreat.

In this song, KB will show Rehman and Geetha like king and queen in the end of the song etc etc. It was just horrible.

This movie was the beginning of the end of KB - IR association.

Dear Balaji...

Because of only one song "Guruvaayorappa", you should not under-estimate KB. Even in that song also, he showed his touch when the audio cassette was rewinded by Geetha, the actors also going back, some poetic thinking.

What fault you find out in the picturisation of :
'Enna saththam indha neram'...(punnagai mannan)
'Kavithai kelungal'...(same movie)
'Idhazhil kadhai ezhuthum neramidhu'... (unnaal mudiyum thambi) KB and R.Reddy polished IR's song like anything.
'Punjai undu... nanjai undu'.... (same movie)
'Paadariyen padippariyen'...(sindhu bairavi) already appreciated by you in another thread.
This list will go long, not omitting anything. KB never spoiled any of IR's song.

At the same time BR spoiled many songs of IR. For example:
When we hear the song in audio ceaasette 'muthal mariyaathai'... andha nillavaithaan naan kaiyila pudichen song... we expected something more , but disappointed when we saw in the theatre, because of poor picturisation.

Same like that, in "kaadhal Oviyam" the songs "Naadham en jeevaney" and "Nadhiyilaadum poovanam", he used only half songs in film where as we can hear full songs in audio cassette.

"Malargaley naadhaswarangal" in KPR and "Puththam pudhu kaalai" in AO, he did not used them in some of his other movies also. So, good composition of two song were wasted.

nilavupriyan
31st July 2005, 04:00 PM
Yes my dear Nilavupriyan,

It was the song - Guruvayoorappa which was totally goofed up by KB which made IR wonder and even asked KB about that song for which KB had to retreat.

In this song, KB will show Rehman and Geetha like king and queen in the end of the song etc etc. It was just horrible.

This movie was the beginning of the end of KB - IR association.
i totally disagree.many horrible directors have made bad picturisation of ilayaraja's golden melodies.but he scored for their film again and again.
do u think all ramarajan and mohan films had good picturisation than kb's films?

S.Balaji
31st July 2005, 05:11 PM
i totally disagree.many horrible directors have made bad picturisation of ilayaraja's golden melodies.but he scored for their film again and again.
do u think all ramarajan and mohan films had good picturisation than kb's films?[/quote]


Dear Nilavu,

The topic is - Which Director got the best out of IR ??

RR and Mohan should not be considered , I feel as they were basically actors . It was up to the directors of those actors to decide the fate of picturisation
Just to add one point here - MR used Mohan in Idayakoil and all songs were wonderfully picturised and music by IR

Mella thirandhadhu kathavu - MOhan - IR - The great SUndarrajan - nice picturisation - especially - Ooru sanam thooongidichu song

and Thedum kann paarvai thavikka

S.Balaji
31st July 2005, 05:26 PM
Dear Balaji...


Because of only one song "Guruvaayorappa", you should not under-estimate KB. Even in that song also, he showed his touch when the audio cassette was rewinded by Geetha, the actors also going back, some poetic thinking.

Response :

KB is always known for his symbolic shots and special touches. I dont deny that Madammmmmmmm . The point here is picturisation of the song
My inner conscience compares KB automatically with BR's style on picturisation ( i got personally goofed up as we are already analysing KB with BR in another thread !!! )


My listing if you see on my previous posting :
1. BR
2. R.Sundarrajan
3. MR
4. Mahendran
5. Fazil
6. Kamal
7. RV Udayakumar
8. KB

All the above were nice and nature lovers and creative thinkers.
Putting KB on the bottom does not undermine his capabilities in anyway but when it comes to comparing with the above 7 , my view point it KB will be the last. I am sure you will agree on this.


What fault you find out in the picturisation of :
'Enna saththam indha neram'...(punnagai mannan)
'Kavithai kelungal'...(same movie)
'Idhazhil kadhai ezhuthum neramidhu'... (unnaal mudiyum thambi) KB and R.Reddy polished IR's song like anything.
'Punjai undu... nanjai undu'.... (same movie)
'Paadariyen padippariyen'...(sindhu bairavi) already appreciated by you in another thread.
This list will go long, not omitting anything. KB never spoiled any of IR's song.

Response :

Agreed , all were captured well by KB . I love the song Paadariyen for the way KB presented the whole song as I could see KB touches everywhere !!!


Quote :
At the same time BR spoiled many songs of IR. For example:
When we hear the song in audio ceaasette 'muthal mariyaathai'... andha nillavaithaan naan kaiyila pudichen song... we expected something more , but disappointed when we saw in the theatre, because of poor picturisation.

Same like that, in "kaadhal Oviyam" the songs "Naadham en jeevaney" and "Nadhiyilaadum poovanam", he used only half songs in film where as we can hear full songs in audio cassette.

"Malargaley naadhaswarangal" in KPR and "Puththam pudhu kaalai" in AO, he did not used them in some of his other movies also. So, good composition of two song were wasted.

I thought - Andha nilava than song - was well picturised especially when Ranjani will pick the Nilaa from the water and then hand it over to the hero and then follows the song sequence. It was a night song sequence and hence we can pardon BR for this darkness.

Kadal Oviyam and Nadham en jeevanay - Partly used

Even those partly used shots were nice captured by BR in his customary imagination. Radha sitting on Nadhiyoram etc etc

Putham pudhu kaalai- One of the best songs of SJ -

Missed out. May be that song was not required to fit in. Probably BR would have thought , this song may hamper the progress of the movie and hence he would have deleted.

TO sum up , we are discussing about which Director got the best out of IR ------ my humble opinion is - if the director feels that song is not required for the picture's continuity, he has every right to edit it out as ULTIMATELY HE WILL BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE FATE OF THE MOVIE.

S.Balaji
31st July 2005, 06:19 PM
Dear Sharadhajii,

WIsh to add one more thought to this KB - IR combination.

KB , for long was an indoor man ( for that matter most of the movies of yesteryears were indoor type only and only Sridhar used to go outdoors ).
My perception of IR music is - the kind of tune and the kind of instruments he used , automatially one tends to think of outdoor and guys like - BR / Mahendran / Balu Mahendra / MR / Sundarrajan were naturall outdoor specialists.

I heard the way SUndarrajan used to explain the nature of the scene and the sequence will automatically prompt IR to come out with the best tune immediately.

KB in my opinion was somewhat behind and to my knowledge after the entry of BR / Mahendran / balu etc etc, he started moving outdoor and started thinking about outdoor as he must have realised that THERE IS A NEW TREND ARRIVED .

KB'S GREATEST STRENGTH IS THE WAY HE BRINGS A SONG TO A PICTURE. MOST OF HIS YESTER YEAR SONGS WERE SITUATION BASED. THIS I AM KEEPING A CUT OFF - UP TO THE STAGE WHEN THE THRUST WAS GIVEN TO PICTURISATION .

I can give lot of references of KB bringing a nice situation into a song. Punnagain manna puvizi kannan is a classic example.

Again, Kelviyin naayaganay / Adhisaya raagam

Vasandha kaala nadigalilay

Aadi velli - I cherish this song

Chippi irukkudhu muthum irukkudhu - This song will make Sridevi and Kamal understand each other . By the way , nice picturisation

etc etc